My englader 30 install. And some questions...

[Archer39]

I would like to start out by saying thanks to Hogzwild (Rob) for coming down and flashing my chimney. Rob is a super nice guy and very knowledgeable. If it was not for Rob and other members on here it would not have possible for me to complete the installation.

Well here are a few pictures:

The stove top thermometer is off by about 75 degrees according to my oven. so it put the temps to about 400 after about 45 mins after reload.

The stack during the above burn.

I have a few pictures of the installation that i will post up later.

I purchased the stove used and found that the previous owner put a hole in the fiber boards right where the flue comes into the stove. After talking to Rob i realized that this was not suppose to be like this. Before i replaced the boards i had a hard time getting the stove top temps up to 400 degrees. Now i have since replaced the boards and still am having a hard time getting high temps out of the stove. I am burning 2 year old cherry and popular mixed in with some red oak. The glass is clean with no black on it and i hear no hissing from any of the wood so i suspect the wood is plenty dry.

i load the stove when stove top temps get down to about 200 i leave the door open for about 10 mins until it gets going. Then i shut the door with the air fully open and it takes about 30 mins for the temps to get up to 350-400 range. Is this normal? I would have expected it to be a lot quicker. the temps will not get hotter than 550 no matter how i run it. I try to wait until it gets to the 400 mark before i start shutting down the air. Also is it normal for the rear secondary tubes to be the most active? I have not seen a single flame from the front tube and very little from next one to the front. I am having a hard time keeping my living room where the stove is located (about 20'x12') at 70 degrees and the upstairs is about 63.

here is a video of the stove in operation about 45 mins after reload.


at the start of the video the air was set about to about half. At 18 seconds i moved it to fully open just to see any change in the fire. then at 35 second mark i went all but fully closed. If i run the stove at that position it will sustain its temps for 15-20 mins then they will fall. I have to leave it at about 1/2 to keep the temps close to 400. Then at 1:26 i fully opened it again.

Also, with the fire box fully loaded more than what is pictured above i will not any longer than 4 hours worth of 300 degree or better burn times.

Now that i wrote a novel was i just expected to much or is the stove under performing? Or is it the operator? or is this normal? I just was really expecting it to produce more heat.

 

[fossil]

The way I understand it, Hog will flash any chance he gets. :lol: Seriously, he's been a big help to a lot of members here. Your install looks terrific. I'm going to move your thread to the Perfect Picture forum, since it's so pic-laden. Rick

 

[SlyFerret]

Sounds like you're doing things right! How are you measuring the temp? Are you using a magnetic stove top unit? Or a handheld IR thermometer?

I just wonder, because, from what you've said and your video, it seems to be running just right. I question the accuracy of the thermometer.

-SF

Edit: just re-read the post and saw the comments about the thermometer that i missed earlier.

Only other guess is that the wood isn't quite seasoned all the way.

 

[Hogwildz]

Fossil, you may want to reconsider moving back to the Hearth room. Zach has issues he is looking for answers for, that may go overlooked in the picture room.

Zach, I'm looking at the thermometer in pic and it look like it reads near the 525 mark. Is the thermo off by 75 + or 75-?
Even if its reading high, that still puts you at about 450 ish?
That stove is capable of running much hotter than that, not that I would recommend much higher than say 650 stove top temp.
Has the cherry been split for 2 yrs and drying that time, or is it dead standing that has been split more recently?
You may want to get the furnace cement and seal the single wall black pipe with it as we discussed you may need to do.
With those joints being a lil less than perfectly tight, may be drawing air through the pipe joints, which could rob draw from the stove.
Try getting a good couple inches of some good hot coals, and reload 4 or 5 small to medium splits on there. Should roar.
You can also try putting a few pcs of clean, kiln dried, lumber in there and see what temps you get.
I would start by getting those joints tight, and trying some lumber. Don't load the hell out of it, but a few 2x4's should create serious heat rel quick.
With the high ceilings you may not get as blasted as you think you maybe should. But you should have NO problem heating that room & the one next to it with the way you layout is.
Make sure you have the air all the way open at reload.
One other note, if I reload at 200, mine will take a while to get back up to temp. I try to reload around 300 degrees.
As far as the front burning tubes, I have no idea. As mine has a different style baffle, and I have not gotten the chance to install and burn my 30 yet.
I would think those burn tubes at front would fire as well. Check the tubes, make sure they are not clogged.
Also PM Mike, and maybe he can give some input.

My place is bigger, but I only got about 70 the other night when it was in the teens here & windy. Which I am even happy with 68, anything higher is a bonus.

One other question: Id that top of the stack & cap already that black & sooted up?, or is that just the photo?
Keep an eye on your build up for a while. May also indicate cool burns &/or wetter wood.
I have had some moist wood burning, and although it did cool the firebox down until the wood dried, it still got up to temps after some time.
Try the lumber as see how that does, if you can't get that thing over 550-600 with lumber, than we know it ain't the wood.
Also, hard to tell by the photos, but don't look like much of a coal base & large splits? Would make for hard time getting temp up.
Try smaller splits and a good 2"-3" coal base.There is simply no reason that thing should be under performing.
Makes me wanna come down again and check it out.

Might also want to consider getting the blower for it.
And I am not sure if that stone wall will be sucking much heat up and releasing outdoors.
Ah sheet, first things first. seal the single wall joints & throw some 2x4's in that thing. And report back.

 

[Hogwildz]

I forgot to mention one thing, may be obvious, but...... you did install the baffle board so it is pushed all the way against the back wall of the stove right?

 

[fossil]

Fossil, you may want to reconsider moving back to the Hearth room. Zach has issues he is looking for answers for, that may go overlooked in the picture room.

I hear ya, and I'll move it back there...but I think the pics in this thread are big & many & get in the way. I'd suggest that Zach start a new thread in the Hearth Room to address his operating concerns, including only such pics as necessary to illustrate those concerns, and keep the pics to about 750 pixels wide, or so. It'll be easier to follow and for those in the know to help him out. Rick

 

[Hogwildz]

Fossil, you may want to reconsider moving back to the Hearth room. Zach has issues he is looking for answers for, that may go overlooked in the picture room.

I hear ya, and I'll move it back there...but I think the pics in this thread are big & many & get in the way. I'd suggest that Zach start a new thread in the Hearth Room to address his operating concerns, including only such pics as necessary to illustrate those concerns, and keep the pics to about 750 pixels wide, or so. It'll be easier to follow and for those in the know to help him out. Rick

Thanks Rick.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Nice stone walls! I've got a few of those around here also.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add here except that stove and those stone walls with the hearth look mighty sharp.

 

[dave11]

I've been burning my 30NC for about three months now, and at times I've had similar issues, especially back at the beginning. The key point, at least as far as my set-up goes, is to get to the target stove temp as quickly as possible, then slowly back down the air. In other words, let it roar in the beginning. The hard part is figuring how much is actually enough, because there clearly is delay between heat getting to the surface of the stove, perhaps 10 minutes, so stove surface temps are always lagging what's in the firebox.

But if I cut back the air too soon, the fire seems to lose momentum, and the temps will fall. i'm always able to get secondary burn, but not vigorously, if this happens.

I've also found that the stove's temp is a function of how much wood is in the firebox. This sounds like common sense, but it seems some folks are able to keep higher temps with just one or two splits. I can never get really high temps that way, perhaps due to the type of wood I burn and having a bit too much draft. But when I have situation you have in your video, and I want the temp higher, I throw two more splits on top E/W, and let it go. Generally within a minute or two, the new splits will start to gas, the firebox becomes an inferno, and I need to drop back the air.

Try using smaller splits, but more of them, and try to keep more wood burning. The stove is impressive when everything falls into place. but getting it there and keeping it there take a fair bit of effort. I dream of the day I can do what Vanessa does, namely load a cold stove, light some bows, close the door, and walk away.

 

[dave11]

Oh. And the rear secondary burn tubes are much more active than the front ones. Fire's gotta be really really hot to see the front ones fire, at least on mine.

 

[MikeP]

Not important, good luck...

 

[Archer39]

Fossil, you may want to reconsider moving back to the Hearth room. Zach has issues he is looking for answers for, that may go overlooked in the picture room.

Zach, I'm looking at the thermometer in pic and it look like it reads near the 525 mark. Is the thermo off by 75 + or 75-?
Even if its reading high, that still puts you at about 450 ish?
That stove is capable of running much hotter than that, not that I would recommend much higher than say 650 stove top temp.
Has the cherry been split for 2 yrs and drying that time, or is it dead standing that has been split more recently?
You may want to get the furnace cement and seal the single wall black pipe with it as we discussed you may need to do.
With those joints being a lil less than perfectly tight, may be drawing air through the pipe joints, which could rob draw from the stove.
Try getting a good couple inches of some good hot coals, and reload 4 or 5 small to medium splits on there. Should roar.
You can also try putting a few pcs of clean, kiln dried, lumber in there and see what temps you get.
I would start by getting those joints tight, and trying some lumber. Don't load the hell out of it, but a few 2x4's should create serious heat rel quick.
With the high ceilings you may not get as blasted as you think you maybe should. But you should have NO problem heating that room & the one next to it with the way you layout is.
Make sure you have the air all the way open at reload.
One other note, if I reload at 200, mine will take a while to get back up to temp. I try to reload around 300 degrees.
As far as the front burning tubes, I have no idea. As mine has a different style baffle, and I have not gotten the chance to install and burn my 30 yet.
I would think those burn tubes at front would fire as well. Check the tubes, make sure they are not clogged.
Also PM Mike, and maybe he can give some input.

My place is bigger, but I only got about 70 the other night when it was in the teens here & windy. Which I am even happy with 68, anything higher is a bonus.

One other question: Id that top of the stack & cap already that black & sooted up?, or is that just the photo?
Keep an eye on your build up for a while. May also indicate cool burns &/or wetter wood.
I have had some moist wood burning, and although it did cool the firebox down until the wood dried, it still got up to temps after some time.
Try the lumber as see how that does, if you can't get that thing over 550-600 with lumber, than we know it ain't the wood.
Also, hard to tell by the photos, but don't look like much of a coal base & large splits? Would make for hard time getting temp up.
Try smaller splits and a good 2"-3" coal base.There is simply no reason that thing should be under performing.
Makes me wanna come down again and check it out.

Might also want to consider getting the blower for it.
And I am not sure if that stone wall will be sucking much heat up and releasing outdoors.
Ah sheet, first things first. seal the single wall joints & throw some 2x4's in that thing. And report back.

Rob the cherry was cut and split 2 years ago. I don't have much of that but i filled the firebox up with about 5-6 splits of it(split small for my parents stove, 14"x 4" or so) so i knew the wood was good and dry. This was on top of a good bed of coals about 1-3". I got the same results as i have been getting. The temps in the picture was just above 500 and the gauge is off -75 so temps were around 425-450.

I don't think i have a problem with the draw. I don't get no smoke coming out at reload it when lighting a fire i get a good draft right away. but who knows.

I am going to order the blower tonight. I will also add that i am not getting crap for burn times. Maybe 3-4 hours at the most and at the end of the 2nd hour the temps are down to 300 or so. T

i have the boards pushed back on top of the last secondary tube so it touches the back wall. I have about 1/2" sticking out past the front secondary tube. The stack has some discoloration from the heat. That is what appears black on the stack. The cap has some black on near the base but the shield portion is clean.

And if you wanna take a ride down your more than welcome to haha.

 

[Archer39]

I've been burning my 30NC for about three months now, and at times I've had similar issues, especially back at the beginning. The key point, at least as far as my set-up goes, is to get to the target stove temp as quickly as possible, then slowly back down the air. In other words, let it roar in the beginning. The hard part is figuring how much is actually enough, because there clearly is delay between heat getting to the surface of the stove, perhaps 10 minutes, so stove surface temps are always lagging what's in the firebox.

But if I cut back the air too soon, the fire seems to lose momentum, and the temps will fall. i'm always able to get secondary burn, but not vigorously, if this happens.

I've also found that the stove's temp is a function of how much wood is in the firebox. This sounds like common sense, but it seems some folks are able to keep higher temps with just one or two splits. I can never get really high temps that way, perhaps due to the type of wood I burn and having a bit too much draft. But when I have situation you have in your video, and I want the temp higher, I throw two more splits on top E/W, and let it go. Generally within a minute or two, the new splits will start to gas, the firebox becomes an inferno, and I need to drop back the air.

Try using smaller splits, but more of them, and try to keep more wood burning. The stove is impressive when everything falls into place. but getting it there and keeping it there take a fair bit of effort. I dream of the day I can do what Vanessa does, namely load a cold stove, light some bows, close the door, and walk away.

I can leave the thing wide open for the entire burn and it will not get much above 500 degrees that is my problem and it takes for ever for it to get there. I have tryed using smaller splits (about 4-6") and it made no difference.

 

[dave11]

I've been burning my 30NC for about three months now, and at times I've had similar issues, especially back at the beginning. The key point, at least as far as my set-up goes, is to get to the target stove temp as quickly as possible, then slowly back down the air. In other words, let it roar in the beginning. The hard part is figuring how much is actually enough, because there clearly is delay between heat getting to the surface of the stove, perhaps 10 minutes, so stove surface temps are always lagging what's in the firebox.

But if I cut back the air too soon, the fire seems to lose momentum, and the temps will fall. i'm always able to get secondary burn, but not vigorously, if this happens.

I've also found that the stove's temp is a function of how much wood is in the firebox. This sounds like common sense, but it seems some folks are able to keep higher temps with just one or two splits. I can never get really high temps that way, perhaps due to the type of wood I burn and having a bit too much draft. But when I have situation you have in your video, and I want the temp higher, I throw two more splits on top E/W, and let it go. Generally within a minute or two, the new splits will start to gas, the firebox becomes an inferno, and I need to drop back the air.

Try using smaller splits, but more of them, and try to keep more wood burning. The stove is impressive when everything falls into place. but getting it there and keeping it there take a fair bit of effort. I dream of the day I can do what Vanessa does, namely load a cold stove, light some bows, close the door, and walk away.

I can leave the thing wide open for the entire burn and it will not get much above 500 degrees that is my problem and it takes for ever for it to get there. I have tryed using smaller splits (about 4-6") and it made no difference.

How are you starting your fires though? The stove has a lot of internal resistance to air intake, or so I'm told, and it often is a bit starved for air in the beginning. Are you closing the door right away, or leaving it opened a crack? And if you leave it open a crack, is it not trying to run away from you in terms of temp? I leave the door open about an inch, till all the wood in the firebox has caught fire. Then I can close the door, and secondary combustion appears. Then if it gets too hot, I dial back the air slowly.

Maybe BrotherBart will be by. He has a lot more experience with the nuances of this stove.

But as an aside, this stove requires really dry wood to work right. I take careful measurements, and I'll tell you even wood in 17-20% range doesn't burn super well in it. My criteria now for a good burn includes wood at less than or equal to 17%. You might try to find a way to check the moisture reliably of the wood you're trying to burn. Might not be as dry as it seems it should be.

As mentioned above, for the next burn, chuck a single 2x4, about a foot long, into the fire once its going. If it takes off and your temps climb to where you want, then its your wood.

 

[Archer39]

I've been burning my 30NC for about three months now, and at times I've had similar issues, especially back at the beginning. The key point, at least as far as my set-up goes, is to get to the target stove temp as quickly as possible, then slowly back down the air. In other words, let it roar in the beginning. The hard part is figuring how much is actually enough, because there clearly is delay between heat getting to the surface of the stove, perhaps 10 minutes, so stove surface temps are always lagging what's in the firebox.

But if I cut back the air too soon, the fire seems to lose momentum, and the temps will fall. i'm always able to get secondary burn, but not vigorously, if this happens.

I've also found that the stove's temp is a function of how much wood is in the firebox. This sounds like common sense, but it seems some folks are able to keep higher temps with just one or two splits. I can never get really high temps that way, perhaps due to the type of wood I burn and having a bit too much draft. But when I have situation you have in your video, and I want the temp higher, I throw two more splits on top E/W, and let it go. Generally within a minute or two, the new splits will start to gas, the firebox becomes an inferno, and I need to drop back the air.

Try using smaller splits, but more of them, and try to keep more wood burning. The stove is impressive when everything falls into place. but getting it there and keeping it there take a fair bit of effort. I dream of the day I can do what Vanessa does, namely load a cold stove, light some bows, close the door, and walk away.

I can leave the thing wide open for the entire burn and it will not get much above 500 degrees that is my problem and it takes for ever for it to get there. I have tryed using smaller splits (about 4-6") and it made no difference.

How are you starting your fires though? The stove has a lot of internal resistance to air intake, or so I'm told, and it often is a bit starved for air in the beginning. Are you closing the door right away, or leaving it opened a crack? And if you leave it open a crack, is it not trying to run away from you in terms of temp? I leave the door open about an inch, till all the wood in the firebox has caught fire. Then I can close the door, and secondary combustion appears. Then if it gets too hot, I dial back the air slowly.

Maybe BrotherBart will be by. He has a lot more experience with the nuances of this stove.

But as an aside, this stove requires really dry wood to work right. I take careful measurements, and I'll tell you even wood in 17-20% range doesn't burn super well in it. My criteria now for a good burn includes wood at less than or equal to 17%. You might try to find a way to check the moisture reliably of the wood you're trying to burn. Might not be as dry as it seems it should be.

As mentioned above, for the next burn, chuck a single 2x4, about a foot long, into the fire once its going. If it takes off and your temps climb to where you want, then its your wood.

i leave the door cracked just like you do and let the wood get well burned. I usually let it open for about 15 mins and then shut. At the point the temps are around 300. About another 15mins with it wide open temps are around 400, then i try to start limiting the air.

I just put 5 pieces of 2x4 about 10" long in and the fire took off but temps never got above 500. They are now burned and in coals and the temps are down around 350.

 

[dave11]

I've been burning my 30NC for about three months now, and at times I've had similar issues, especially back at the beginning. The key point, at least as far as my set-up goes, is to get to the target stove temp as quickly as possible, then slowly back down the air. In other words, let it roar in the beginning. The hard part is figuring how much is actually enough, because there clearly is delay between heat getting to the surface of the stove, perhaps 10 minutes, so stove surface temps are always lagging what's in the firebox.

But if I cut back the air too soon, the fire seems to lose momentum, and the temps will fall. i'm always able to get secondary burn, but not vigorously, if this happens.

I've also found that the stove's temp is a function of how much wood is in the firebox. This sounds like common sense, but it seems some folks are able to keep higher temps with just one or two splits. I can never get really high temps that way, perhaps due to the type of wood I burn and having a bit too much draft. But when I have situation you have in your video, and I want the temp higher, I throw two more splits on top E/W, and let it go. Generally within a minute or two, the new splits will start to gas, the firebox becomes an inferno, and I need to drop back the air.

Try using smaller splits, but more of them, and try to keep more wood burning. The stove is impressive when everything falls into place. but getting it there and keeping it there take a fair bit of effort. I dream of the day I can do what Vanessa does, namely load a cold stove, light some bows, close the door, and walk away.

I can leave the thing wide open for the entire burn and it will not get much above 500 degrees that is my problem and it takes for ever for it to get there. I have tryed using smaller splits (about 4-6") and it made no difference.

How are you starting your fires though? The stove has a lot of internal resistance to air intake, or so I'm told, and it often is a bit starved for air in the beginning. Are you closing the door right away, or leaving it opened a crack? And if you leave it open a crack, is it not trying to run away from you in terms of temp? I leave the door open about an inch, till all the wood in the firebox has caught fire. Then I can close the door, and secondary combustion appears. Then if it gets too hot, I dial back the air slowly.

Maybe BrotherBart will be by. He has a lot more experience with the nuances of this stove.

But as an aside, this stove requires really dry wood to work right. I take careful measurements, and I'll tell you even wood in 17-20% range doesn't burn super well in it. My criteria now for a good burn includes wood at less than or equal to 17%. You might try to find a way to check the moisture reliably of the wood you're trying to burn. Might not be as dry as it seems it should be.

As mentioned above, for the next burn, chuck a single 2x4, about a foot long, into the fire once its going. If it takes off and your temps climb to where you want, then its your wood.

i leave the door cracked just like you do and let the wood get well burned. I usually let it open for about 15 mins and then shut. At the point the temps are around 300. About another 15mins with it wide open temps are around 400, then i try to start limiting the air.

I just put 5 pieces of 2x4 about 10" long in and the fire took off but temps never got above 500. They are now burned and in coals and the temps are down around 350.

Hm. That's hard to explain. I have some old 1x4's, and just one ten-inch piece on top of a medium temp fire will send the stove up 100 degrees, though only until the 1x4 is spent, which happens pretty fast. I can't understand why all that dimensional lumber you used didn't send you to 700F.

So you're saying that if you've got the stove burning well at 400-500, in the middle of the burn, and you chuck in 2-3 medium sized splits, the fire does not take off? It just burns at the same temp?

 

[Archer39]

yes it will stay around the same + or - 50-100 degrees or so.

i will go make a video right now with throwing on a couple pieces of 2x4s.

 

[dave11]

I might have missed it in your first post, but do you have an alternate way to check the temp? To verify that your surface thermometers are right? I use a good quality IR temp gun, which seems pretty accurate to me.

The extra splits you thrown on though, they have to go into a fire that's already pretty hot. If you put them on coals, they may take a long while to get back up to temp.

 

[Archer39]

no i don't have an IR temp gun. I have two surface thermometers and i checked them in my oven and they both are consistent with each other. I can use my fire company's IR gun but i don't see it being a help.

yes when i put them on a hot fire it still does not make the temps go a lot higher.

 

[dave11]

no i don't have an IR temp gun. I have two surface thermometers and i checked them in my oven and they both are consistent with each other. I can use my fire company's IR gun but i don't see it being a help.

yes when i put them on a hot fire it still does not make the temps go a lot higher.

I guess I can't make any further suggestions, because your stove is doing something mine has never done. Perhaps the wood is wetter than you think, or you have a bit too much draft, but hopefully one of the other 30NC users can jump in.

The suggestion by MikeP to lessen the secondary air input might be worth a try.

 

[BrotherBart]

One thing that has to happen is turning down that primary air. If you keep letting all of that cooler air blow in the front it is never going to get hot. As soon as the wood starts burning good start easing that rod in in steps while the temp comes up with the target being to have it even with the ash lip when the stove top goes over 500 degrees. With a N/S load with the thing sticking up in the front of the stove aimed right between two splits. With another split over the top of the gap between them forming a tunnel. Don't have a split in front of that thing blocking it.

 

[Hogwildz]

Zach,
What I meant about the pipe & draft is this..........
If the pipe seams are letting enough draft to get sucked through them, this could be lessening draft from the stove itself, where the fuel load is.
It would not hurt to seal the pipe joints with a little bit of furnace cement.
I can't come down this weekend, but if you continue having problems, I will get down after the holidays.

 

[SlyFerret]

One thing that has to happen is turning down that primary air. If you keep letting all of that cooler air blow in the front it is never going to get hot. As soon as the wood starts burning good start easing that rod in in steps while the temp comes up with the target being to have it even with the ash lip when the stove top goes over 500 degrees. With a N/S load with the thing sticking up in the front of the stove aimed right between two splits. With another split over the top of the gap between them forming a tunnel. Don't have a split in front of that thing blocking it.

+1


If you leave the air too open, the fire burns great, but all the rushes up your stack. I get higher stove top temps and lower stack temps when the air is closed down some vs. wide open.

I never run my 30 with the air cut all the way back. 25% (rough guess) is just about right on my setup. Too little air and it smolders and the glass gets all gunky.

How tightly do you stack your splits inside the stove? I've had nights where the dang thing just doesn't want to take off, and the solution ends up being to open the door, stick the poker in there, and nudge the splits around just a little bit so that the air can move between them differently.

I also find that for this stove to run right, there needs to be room for the air to circulate around the sides, back, front, as well as right straight down the middle (from that doghouse jet that Mike calls the "zipper"). I also try not to load it past the top of the fire brick to give room for the secondary air system to do as it's supposed to up above.

-SF

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Without getting to complicated.... :cheese:

Make sure the wood you are going to using has been inside for at least 24hrs so it can warm up to room temp.

Cold wood does not burn well and takes more calories to get roaring.

I have found (and others) that when you damper all the way down....come back out about a 1/4" so that the primary is not totally shut off.