My "new" Harman was made in 06

[cac4]

well, its here...sittin' in my driveway. waiting for my old man to come over and help get it into the house. I'd post a pic, but my wife took off w/ the camera.

something interesting I noted: the inspection slip, and plate on the back say it was manufactured in september of 06. More fodder for forum speculation...LOL! guess I don't have to worry about it being a "rushed" manufacture. Obviously, its been sitting in a warehouse for a couple of years. could it be that part of the "problem" is one of distribution, and not just manufacturing capacity?
and no, its not from dealer's stock. they were "out" when I ordered it. Told me not to expect it until fall...guess they got an unexpected shipment.

anyhoo...just thought I'd mention it.

 

[shilly]

Lucky you !! Don't know when mine will come in ! :long:

 

[BubbRubb]

I can't believe a stove was sitting in a warehouse for nearly two years while they were still manufacturing new ones. I should check my stove tonight and see what date it has.

So, I checked my stove today and mine was manufactured in Sept. 2006 as well. Installed in November 2007.

 

[oc4man]

my concern would be if any changes have been made to the model you purchased for the better

 

[BrotherBart]

That pretty much fits in with what has been said before. One of the reasons for them selling the company was being up to their ears in stoves in the warehouse after overproduction after Karina hit in the last week of August in '05. And Craig said before that all of those stoves were sold in the Spring dealer "pre-buy" program this year so those deliveries would be hitting the dealers about now.

 

[gabe1965]

If I was you I would be worried, there was a few small problems with the first XXV revision.

The new ones have a few improvements that the first revision does not have.

How critical these improvements are........I do not know.

By the way when did you order yours? I order mine in May and I have a due date of NOVEMBER

 

[cac4]

well, this is an accentra-2 free standing. any updates on those, since 06?

I only ordered it 2 weeks ago, but I made an end-run around the newengland log jam by getting it from a place down south.

 

[tinkabranc]

If I was you I would be worried, there was a few small problems with the first XXV revision.

The new ones have a few improvements that the first revision does not have.

How critical these improvements are........I do not know.

Not to say you are wrong or anything, but what were the issues on the XXV?
My stove was built in 2005 and I am not aware of any problems on this model.

The Accentra did have issues a while ago but they were already resolved.

 

[webbie]

2006 makes sense....that was when Harman was building 20K stoves up in inventory....which then did not sell in 2007. Once the new company took over, they were sold as "early buy" at the end of this winter, and now are all in customers homes (or mostly).

So tens of thousands of the Harmans that will be fired up this fall will be 2006 models.

No changes that I can imagine, since they had actually stopped production......and the new company has barely just (now) started pumping out new ones.

 

[escobarmj]

As I understand it, some of the early XXVs had an issue with a noise fan. I believe the problem was traced to a faulty mount design. Harman has a workaround and the dealer would handle it as a warranty issue. I would not worry about it.

 

[gabe1965]

If I was you I would be worried, there was a few small problems with the first XXV revision.

The new ones have a few improvements that the first revision does not have.

How critical these improvements are........I do not know.

Not to say you are wrong or anything, but what were the issues on the XXV?
My stove was built in 2005 and I am not aware of any problems on this model.

The Accentra did have issues a while ago but they were already resolved.

I Am waiting for my first stove ever It has not been a good experience so far but before I order the xxv last MAY I did a little research and
I found this ""Harman issued 1 tech bulletin early February regarding a few stoves in the field with a buzzing distribution blower""

Also the dealer that I order the stove from told me the new xxv's had some updates.

 

[webbie]

There were a number of small problems with stoves during the 2005-2006 rush - we had quite a few users here with complaints....BUT, when you consider that they probably pumped out 20-40,000 pellets stoves during that period, I don't think there were big issues.....just the type of usual thing that happens when you turn the assembly line up too high!
I'm certain the new company will stand behind any issues....but, then again, those bringing in stoves from outside their geo area may have a tough (or impossible) time getting a factory service tech to their homes.

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm certain the new company will stand behind any issues....but, then again, those bringing in stoves from outside their geo area may have a tough (or impossible) time getting a factory service tech to their homes.

No kidding. I was in the local stove shop yesterday and a lady from Vermont had come in and left a deposit on a P61 and was going home to figure out how to get it back up there. She wanted to put in her friends SUV but they wouldn't do it. They explained no warranty service but all she was concerned about was how to haul it home.

That is as goofy as the guy two years ago that drove all night from Quebec to Virginia to buy a Jotul gas stove from me to save a few bucks. I tried everything I could think of to talk him out of it. And he hit a deer in his new pickup on the way down so the deductible probably cost him more than the difference on the stove but he was still thrilled.

Go figure.

 

[tkirk22]

I'm certain the new company will stand behind any issues....but, then again, those bringing in stoves from outside their geo area may have a tough (or impossible) time getting a factory service tech to their homes.

I do not understand this at all.

If I understand you right, what you're saying is that if I buy one of these stoves and I move, then it would be hard to get the stove serviced? Doesn't the service tech still charge his own customer for a service call? Wouldn't he still charge anyone else for a service call? Money is money right?

If I heard that from a dealer I would tell him to shove that stove up his astack and find a new stove manufacturer. I would personally find a manufacturer that DEMANDED that their dealers support their stoves period! No questions asked.

How long do you think car dealers or manufacturers would be in business with these 'restraint of trade' practices?

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm certain the new company will stand behind any issues....but, then again, those bringing in stoves from outside their geo area may have a tough (or impossible) time getting a factory service tech to their homes.

I do not understand this at all.

If I understand you right, what you're saying is that if I buy one of these stoves and I move, then it would be hard to get the stove serviced? Doesn't the service tech still charge his own customer for a service call? Wouldn't he still charge anyone else for a service call? Money is money right?

If I heard that from a dealer I would tell him to shove that stove up his astack and find a new stove manufacturer. I would personally find a manufacturer that DEMANDED that their dealers support their stoves period! No questions asked.

How long do you think car dealers or manufacturers would be in business with these 'restraint of trade' practices?

Been a Harman tradition for years and yet you still see everbody clamoring to get their pellet stoves. :question:

A big part of the problem is that dealers get squat from the manufacturer for warranty work. People have been here on the Forum before that moved and couldn't get their stove fixed.

 

[Diana627]

I looked at the back of my Harman P68 which was installed this week and it has a manufacture day of September, 2007. Another leftover?

 

[bumrunner]

if you open up the back of that that Accentra it's likely a chain drive. The new models are direct drives and Harman added a pressure switch in the hopper as well.

My "spankin new" one is 3 months older than yours. Found out when I got it home.

 

[gabe1965]

if you open up the back of that that Accentra it's likely a chain drive. The new models are direct drives and Harman added a pressure switch in the hopper as well.

My "spankin new" one is 3 months older than yours. Found out when I got it home.

Well it will be very interesting to see whenever I receive mine, I wil be waiting about 6 months MAYBE MORE WHO KNOWS for this stove and

Whenever it arrives I hope it does not say "MANUFACTURED IN 2006" :sick: :lol:

Time will tell
Gabe

 

[webbie]

I do not understand this at all.

If I understand you right, what you're saying is that if I buy one of these stoves and I move, then it would be hard to get the stove serviced? Doesn't the service tech still charge his own customer for a service call? Wouldn't he still charge anyone else for a service call? Money is money right?

Whether we understand it or not, it is true. Heck, you don't even have to move. We'd had folks here whose dealers went out of business or who were too busy to get out to a house quick, etc.

Shouldn't be surprising. Who do you think comes out and services the tens of thousands of internet sold stoves, or the ones sold at hardware stores, big boxes, etc. - No one! But at least some of the those companies answer the phones and email.

Some of us speculate that things will change to some degree once Harman is fully integrated into HHT....at least parts and service info may be available......

I should say this is nothing new in the industry. We had a stove shop for 20+ years, and I can count the times on one hand when we went out and serviced a stove that we did not sell....wood, pellet or gas. Being an independent business allowed us to make these decisions. Service was never a profit center for us - we probably lost money on it....so there was not obligation to take such jobs.

That all said, a really TOP TOP brand might be able to get dealers to agree to service stoves they didn't sell...but they would have to pay prevailing rates - and they do not. What is the cost these days for sending a person or two, a truck and tools out to a house to make a repair? It can run into the hundreds of dollars easily. Some makers will give you $35 to $75.

 

[Amaralluis]

if you open up the back of that that Accentra it's likely a chain drive. The new models are direct drives and Harman added a pressure switch in the hopper as well.

My "spankin new" one is 3 months older than yours. Found out when I got it home.

Any issues with the ignitor on those older models?

I am about to have mine replaced for the *SIXTH* time in the last three years!!

 

[DiggerJim]

I should say this is nothing new in the industry. We had a stove shop for 20+ years, and I can count the times on one hand when we went out and serviced a stove that we did not sell....wood, pellet or gas. Being an independent business allowed us to make these decisions. Service was never a profit center for us - we probably lost money on it....so there was not obligation to take such jobs.

That all said, a really TOP TOP brand might be able to get dealers to agree to service stoves they didn't sell...but they would have to pay prevailing rates - and they do not. What is the cost these days for sending a person or two, a truck and tools out to a house to make a repair? It can run into the hundreds of dollars easily. Some makers will give you $35 to $75.

I suggest you have no idea how many sales (and thus how much money) you lost due to that policy. I'd bet the lost sales outweigh the loss you might have suffered from unreimbursed warranty work.

I don't expect I'm the only person who upgrades things from dealers that help them out. I'll stick with a more expensive guy if he's helped me and won't go near a dealer who doesn't make customer service a priority. I use my local hardware store even though his prices are much more than the big box or even the Ace chain a bit further down the road - he still has very personalized service. For stoves I'll never go to the big one in W. Spgfld Mass for anything including accessories, other stove stuff, or service work because the sales guy was absolutely clueless (or just interested in pushing what he had in stock) telling me it was illegal, unsafe, & would void the stove's warranty if I put an insert in the prefab fireplace I have in the house (although once he looked at a Harman manual & saw the instructions for doing it he agreed it was probably legal, wouldn't void the warranty but still held out that it wasn't safe). I'm not sure what his motive was, but he lost a customer - and maybe others as I relate the story to anyone who asks me about pellet stoves. Same is true of the guy who tried to push a Whitfield on me because I was absolutely going to lose out if I didn't sign the deal that very day because they don't make them anymore and no other stove is worth having and....if you treat me like a commodity, then I'll do the same and in that game lowest price rules.

How you treat customers or even non-customers plays directly to whether they'll come back and be customers some more - or if they decide to go elsewhere.

I'd also be interested in a legal opinion on the refusal to honor a warranty claim by either an authorized dealer or the manufacturer - that's precisely the kind of practice that drove the passage of the Magnuson-Moss act in the mid-70s. A zealous lawyer who was looking for some nice class-action money could have a field day if they knew it happened with regularity in this industry.

Jim

 

[webbie]

Don't think we lost a single sale....there were probably less than 20 REQUESTS for us to service stoves that we did not sell over 2 decades, and we probably helped out 1/4 of them. The others we referred to independent chimney sweeps who could help them. In other words, we never told a customer to go pound sand.....we helped 100% of the people who came though the door in some way.

As to the legalities, consider that most stove companies had (and have) no written contract with their dealers. So they didn't even ask us to fix other stoves......

You are perhaps correct in ONE part - that the MANUFACTURERS have an obligation to the end consumer...the warranty is between those two parties.

Lastly, consider that it is really only the emergence of PELLET STOVES which brings this to the forefront. We sold thousands of wood stoves and had only a tiny percentage of problems...which, of course, we took care of. The pellet stove craze brings a whole new dynamic to the situation, which is why our shop decided - after having a number of bad experiences - to stop selling pellet stoves. We simply could not provide the level of service that would meet our standard...or that of our customers.

I hope that clarifies some of the points I expressed. Don't shoot the messenger - I am simply telling folks what the industry norms are. If it was up to me, manufacturers would have banks of educated customer service folks, tech crews on the road....and they would pay prevailing rates, etc.

But they do not. And it is probably a good thing to know for those buying stoves which need regular servicing.

 

[High Altitude]

Must be an industry thing my "new" Castile has a build date of AUG 2006.

 

[rona]

We are all finding out where those mysterious 23,000 stove have been for the last two or three years. Bixby had the same problem and you could buy them on E-Bay last summer and winter for less then 2000.00 If you are a do it yourselfer you can handle those stoves pretty easily. I would just as soon be able to fix it myself as rely on a dealer anyway. One thing I will say about Bixby they have helped the end consumer by having several ways of diagnosing problems with there stove with out having to work through a dealer.
That was the biggest reason I sold my Harman stove. Absolutely no customer support beyond a blunt go talk to your dealer even if he is a horses back end.