My new TPO roof

[precaud]

I wasn't sure whether to put this in the Green Room or DIY, but I didn't DIM and it's the future of roofing (IMO) so here it is for the greenies.

After the mammoth snow we got last Xmas, my prior roof repairs got totally swamped causing significant damage to the plaster inside. Not good. It was time for the whole thing to be redone. This is a 77 year old house with the original coal tar roof and one reroof on top, and a foot of dirt on top of that. (Yes, one foot of dirt! The roof planks sit on 2"x12" joists on 18" centers.) Two roofs isn't bad for 77 years.

Because of the dirt, a more substantial repair with modern materials was ruled out - nothing I could put down myself would like being covered in dirt as time passed. So I decided not to do it myself, called out for bids, and got 5 companies to look it over and bid. Most of the local roofing "companies" all have the same last name (Lopez) and, it turns out, all process their proposals from one office onto different stationary, tweaking the final amount by a hundred or two to make them all look legitimately different...what a racket! Anyway, the bids ranged from $18,200 to $8,500, including the dirt removal. The four most expensive bids were for torchdown mod bit, the cheapest one was for TPO. I thought it curious that torchdown was more than double the cost. How could these good ole boys charge so much for old asphalt "technology" ? Well, it turns out, the answer is, because they can get away with it - by scaring people away from the "uncertainty" of using new materials (which really are better.) That was the essence of their pitch against TPO; it's "too new." The giveaway was that the bid amounts were inversely proportional to the intelligence level of the bidders.

After MUCH study and consideration (and many questions to the TPO guy) I went with him. His crew was great and did a very good job. You can see the attached pics. It's like having a shrinkwrapped roof. All that remains to be done is to put down the layer of ballast rock. I'll post a pic of that when they finish it.

Among the many "green" benefits of TPO is the approx. 92% reflectivity. When the sun is shining, it hurts my eyes to stand up there! Afternoon temps inside the house have dropped 2 degrees just from this one change. I love it.

Will post more impressions as they arise.

 

[littlesmokey]

Can you explain a little more? I have a Salt Box style building. It has half metal sheet roofing and half shingle. The shingle side is quite in rain storms and the metal is, well, not even comfortable for a black smith. Can this be layed over, or do you need a new sheath? I like the white to reflect the heat.

 

[precaud]

As long as the substrate is flat and sound, you can lay TPO over it. You can read more about it here:
http://www.facilitiesnet.com/BOM/Jul01/jul01envelope.shtml
(broken link removed to http://www.rsimag.com/rsi/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=422430)
http://www.allbusiness.com/construction/construction-buildings/563290-1.html
(this last article uses an unfortunate {for this group} analogy, but it's well-written.)

and there's even a youtube video of a self-install:
http://youtube.com/?v=oCV9y1qJuqk

 

[littlesmokey]

Precaud:
Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts? Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?

 

[precaud]

Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?

If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.

Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?

It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.

 

[littlesmokey]

Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?

If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.

Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?

It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.

Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives? I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side. Shingles would not make it with any snow load, and I have a bunch of that. I have been nursing a standing rib steel roof for ten years, it was done in the 40's (I think), but the nerves go each time I get a 30mph wind storm. Nails are gone, but I worry about the stainless screws in very old wood.

 

[begreen]

I can see using TPO for a flat roof, but I'm not so sure about a saltbox roof. Not that I'm saying it wouldn't work, but it sure would look odd.

 

[precaud]

Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives?

I already wrote, the other quotes were for torchdown mod bit.

I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side.

TPO is a good choice for low slope. For a pitched roof there are better choices, I'd think.

 

[kevinmoelk]

I'm surprised to see someone considering taking off a metal roof. I'm considering adding one. I think a metal roof is one of the best roofs you can have if done right. Some people don't like the looks of them, but to each their own.

Littlesmokey, tell us a bit more about your own set up, roof pitch, snow load, etc. Adding a location would help. Do you have pictures? What problems do you currently face?

-Kevin

 

[elkimmeg]

this type of roofing is used a lot on comercial roofs. ITs no so much the roofing but the color that reflects temps differences.

For years I have known the white roofs are cooler in summer.

One needs sunglasses to walk around up there, Snow Blind in summer

And I agree that was the way to go for your situation. Not a Dyi job, it takes many hands laying that roofing down.

Can one use it on normal gable roofs, I supose so, ITs that I have never seen it done,

 

[precaud]

River rock was put on yesterday, it's now finished. I like it.

Next job is to put a liner in one of the center chimney stacks for a woodstove in the basement.

 

[Hogwildz]

TPO/ or more commonly named
Hypalon" roofing systems are not by any means new on the market. I used to put alot of those down in the 90's.
The seams are heat welded and then caulked over with a special caulk. As long as the mechanic welding the seams did not get it too hot or too cool, it will basically fuse the seams together. As far as being green, they are made of "Chlorosulfinated Polyethylene" which is a type of synthetic rubber. KInd of like the coal to electric plant debate.

If done properly you get about 10 yrs life out of it. With proper maintenance, maybe longer. The problem is, although UV resistant, after time the UV rays do break down the material. Causing it to shrink & pull apart. Also, as I said, if the person(s) welding the seams didn't do it correctly, they will open up. Many mechanics, if they see the seam didn't adhere as well as it should have, unfortunately will just caulk over the seam, which will not last very long after thermal expansion & contraction.

The ballast, or "stones" they put on top are what holds the roof on. Its the least expensive application in which to secure that membrane. I personally would have had it fully adhered, which is using a special bonding glue to glue the membrane completely down, except the overlapping seams of course, which must me heat welded.
There is a mechanically fastened system also in which screws & plates are set & driven every so many square foot, and at the seams. The they are patched over in the field of the roof, and heat welded in between the seam layers, or set underneath the membrane in long thin 6" or 9" strips of the material then the membrane back is glues to the strips. This is the middle ground of fully adhered & ballast. Mid expensive & mid reliable.
The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone. You can try & clean the membrane as best as possible after finding a leak, and it will never be clean enough to truly properly seal. Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily. And you won't know until its leaking. I used to hate doing repairs on ballast systems, they are just a PITA, and very tough to stop from leaking & sealing properly one they get that dirty.

Did they at least put some polyisocyanurate insulation sheets or ISO as we called em down over the decking before installing the membrane? The membrane itself has no "R" value, thats where the Iso comes in to play. The Iso plays two roles. One to protect from nails etc if they back out of the decking in time, or are slightly protruding at time of install of membrane. Secondly the Iso will give some "R" value to help keep your heat from escaping through the roof.

As far as torch down, Ive installed every commercial roofing system available up to my retirement from roofing in 2000. Torch down is not the worst, or best. Again it depends on the mechanic putting it down. IN BOTH torch down & Hypalon, if you get the seams or welded area too hot, its all over. There is no getting the lost material back. Only patching is to follow to correct the boo boo. Torch down IF properly installed, and I mean if, can last ten years, longer if regularly coated with aluminum coating to reflect UV etc. But if not properly put down, it will leak, and chasing leaks in any membrane system is a PITA. The leak is not always where the water is coming in below. It can travel underneath the membrane from across the roof, then drop in a low spots. I have seen many roofing companies & mechanics that think they could put these roofs down, and really not know what the hell they were doing. One key giveaway is when a person calls torch down...."rubber roofing", its NOT anywheres close to rubber roofing. Its called Modified Bitumen. Its either torched down, or cold applied with adhesive. Cold applied IMO is junk, as the seams fishmouth open & its very messy to put down. I never cared for it.

Rubber is just that, like an inner tube almost, both reinforced & unreinforced. EPDM technical termed. Last forever, but again seams & flashing made of a different rubber material for workability & to conform to corners etc will fail at about 10 yrs. The membrane itself lasts indefinitely.

Look any of the technical terms up on google if you want to learn more.

I have personally put down miles of each of these roofing systems. Colleges, businesses, supermarkets, etc. I speak from personal knowledge and years of roofing.
I am NOT trying to put down you roof, or say one is better than another. These are all basically commercial roof systems. And they can be applied to residential.
NONE are new tech!! All are 20 or more years old technology. Hypolan is actually less popular in these parts due to the problems with it. And also since white EPDM or rubber has been around for years now.
Each has its own advantages & disadvantages. ALL have a normal life span of about 10 years, and if upkept and taken care of 15-20 or longer. The problem with the ballast system you have is it limits your ability to inspect & maintenance. Thats why your price was lower. Although the price you paid was about right for any of the systems. The other higher bids were way out of line.

As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane, which you just had 90% covered by the ballast or stone. I hope they put at least some 3" iso underneath there.

Sorry for the long drawn out blah blah blah. I just love when a topic I know much about comes up. I like to share what I know with others. I just wish I could have spoke with you before you made your decision. Theres many options & choices. Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheethed & shingled, or White FULLY ADHERED EPDM. At least then you could just redo the flashings every 10-15 yrs. Ballast, cheaper, but there is a reason for it. If you get leaks, you'll understand why.

Congrats & good luck on the new roof. Hope it lasts a long time for you.

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for the links. Think I need to study them a bit. Do you know the temperature range. We'll be over a hundred this weekend, not too many days, but a few each year, but I am worried about the lows in the minus 20's I have some concern about it getting brittle and cracking. What's your thoughts?

If you Google "TPO roof" and look on any of the manufacturer's spec sheets you can see the specs and details. The temperature range is better than any other membrane I saw.

Also what cost incomparison to other roofing? I assume it's more expensive, right?

It was by far the lowest of the 5 quotes I got.

Are you serious? Cheapest? What systems or materials were the alternatives? I have thought about the membrane because of the low pitch of the South side. Shingles would not make it with any snow load, and I have a bunch of that. I have been nursing a standing rib steel roof for ten years, it was done in the 40's (I think), but the nerves go each time I get a 30mph wind storm. Nails are gone, but I worry about the stainless screws in very old wood.

Tear the old metal off and replace with new. You can put polyiso insulation boards underneath to deaden the rain noise. Or tear metal off, beef up the framing put plywood decking down & shingle it. I have used rubber, torch down etc on back porch roofs, barrel roofs etc. But on the face of your home would look not so great. The neighbors might have something to say also. And there actually can be some ramifications in certain townships etc as to what you may use, or how it can look. On a god note, rubber, torch down & hypalon can be coated or "painted" with special rubberized coatings these days. Which you can get in different colors. But again, be ready to maintenance every few years.
If you can do shingles, I'd go that route, or go with metal again with some insulation board underneath to lessen the noise factor.

 

[begreen]

Very informative post Hog, I learned something. Thanks.

And I agree with your conclusion. I would insulate the roof to reduce noise and go with metal again for longevity. But if not metal, I'd go with a conventional shingle roof. It's available in light grey if the desire it to reduce it's heat absorbency.

 

[Hogwildz]

Very informative post Hog, I learned something. Thanks.

And I agree with your conclusion. I would insulate the roof to reduce noise and go with metal again for longevity. But if not metal, I'd go with a conventional shingle roof. It's available in light grey if the desire it to reduce it's heat absorbency.

Glad to know I'm of use LOL.
Yes you can get a lighter colored shingle. They even make white, 3 tabs, but I'd stay away from them.
As white anywhere on a house outside, does NOT stay white. Theres a nice gray dimensional shingle, the colors names differ from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Driftwood & weathered wood colors are usually the grayer colors. Theres one used to be called pewter also another grayish shingle.
I don't know much, but I do know roofing LOL. My back & neck remind me of that daily.
Well off to ride the hawg, I need some real air

 

[precaud]

Hog, I don't doubt your experience, but there's too many factual errors to let pass uncorrected.

TPO/ or more commonly named "Hypalon" roofing systems are not by any means new on the market.

Sorry, wrong... Hypalon and TPO are different materials. TPO is more akin to polypropylene. Oh, and I didn't say they were new on the market.

As far as being green, they are made of "Chlorosulfinated Polyethylene" which is a type of synthetic rubber.

Hypalon, which was used in the 80's, is CSPE or Chlorosulfonated polyethylene, and is not recyclable. TPO is non-chlorine based thermoplastic polyolefin and has been on roofs for about 10 years, and is recyclable.

If done properly you get about 10 yrs life out of it. With proper maintenance, maybe longer. The problem is, although UV resistant, after time the UV rays do break down the material. Causing it to shrink & pull apart. Also, as I said, if the person(s) welding the seams didn't do it correctly, they will open up. Many mechanics, if they see the seam didn't adhere as well as it should have, unfortunately will just caulk over the seam, which will not last very long after thermal expansion & contraction.

That was the rap on Hypalon roofs. TPO is faring much better, especially here in the Southwest.

The ballast, or "stones" they put on top are what holds the roof on. Its the least expensive application in which to secure that membrane... There is a mechanically fastened system also in which screws & plates are set & driven every so many square foot, and at the seams. The they are patched over in the field of the roof, and heat welded in between the seam layers, or set underneath the membrane in long thin 6" or 9" strips of the material then the membrane back is glues to the strips. This is the middle ground of fully adhered & ballast. Mid expensive & mid reliable.

I was given a choice, and I chose the ballast over the mechanically adhered. In my view, the fewer holes, the better. And in the off chance that sparks come out of the chimney, I'd rather they fall on rock...

The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone.

There's not that many stones... and they're not small... 1-1/2 to 3 inches... it's a minor inconvenience, in my opinion.

Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily.

"Very easy" is an exaggeration... this material is very tough.

Did they at least put some polyisocyanurate insulation sheets or ISO as we called em down over the decking before installing the membrane? The membrane itself has no "R" value, thats where the Iso comes in to play. The Iso plays two roles. One to protect from nails etc if they back out of the decking in time, or are slightly protruding at time of install of membrane. Secondly the Iso will give some "R" value to help keep your heat from escaping through the roof.

There is a base sheet laid first, then the TPO. There was no need to insulate the deck, as there is R50-R60 in the ceiling below.

NONE are new tech!! All are 20 or more years old technology. Hypolan is actually less popular in these parts due to the problems with it.

Again... TPO is NOT Hypalon... noone around here uses Hypalon any more.

As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane

I never stated otherwise.... sheesh.

which you just had 90% covered by the ballast or stone. I hope they put at least some 3" iso underneath there.

Studies by Oak Ridge Nat'l Labs show that the 'heat load vs. time' curve is only 'flattened out' for the ballasted vs unballasted white TPO. I can dig up the link if you wish.

I just wish I could have spoke with you before you made your decision. Theres many options & choices.

My choices were more limited than you think; hot mop, torchdown mod bit, or TPO. I think I chose best.

Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheethed & shingled,

Shingles on a low-slope roof? That would be a disaster...

or White FULLY ADHERED EPDM.

White EPDM has not fared well in this part of the country, with UV breakdown much earlier than expected. What they learned is it's the 'carbon black' that gives EPDM it's UV resistance.

At least then you could just redo the flashings every 10-15 yrs. Ballast, cheaper, but there is a reason for it. If you get leaks, you'll understand why.

We'll touch base in 10 years, which is when the warranty expires...

 

[littlesmokey]

Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense.

Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hypalon, which was used in the 80's, is CSPE or Chlorosulfonated polyethylene, and is not recyclable. TPO is non-chlorine based thermoplastic polyolefin and has been on roofs for about 10 years, and is recyclable.

TPO roofing membranes have been in service in Europe for approximately ten years. The first appearance of a "TPO-type" roofing product in the United States was around 1987. As yet, little is known about their durability. You were only off by 10yrs. unless you live in Europe, no biggie.
TPO membrane, reinforced and non-reinforced, is 100 percent recyclable "DURING THE PRODUCTION PROCESS".

While you are correct to a degree, both are from the same family, but I am not going to have a long drawn out debate.

That was the rap on Hypalon roofs. TPO is faring much better, especially here in the Southwest.

Same installation method, same heat sealing method. Again, good mechanic= good seams, untrained of unseasoned mechanic= bad seams. I am not knocking your roof or the installers. Time will tell if they knew what they were doing or not.

I was given a choice, and I chose the ballast over the mechanically adhered. In my view, the fewer holes, the better. And in the off chance that sparks come out of the chimney, I'd rather they fall on rock...

Very good point regarding sparks, no argument there.

The problem with the ballast system is if you develop a leak. Now you must move stone to find the leak, and its very, very dirty underneath the stone.

There's not that many stones... and they're not small... 1-1/2 to 3 inches... it's a minor inconvenience, in my opinion.

There is a required rock thickness for wind rating, for around an I90 rating I think its is about 3" of stone give or take 1/2". I know what the stone is, I have humped and put down many many 1000's of sf of the stone. Its river rock. Dredged up from rivers and cleaned & screened for debris. I have occasionally come across a bad batch here and there that had wire, delaminated stone etc in it. Not saying that is the case with your roof, and it is more rare to have that problem than actually have it. Now, if you ever have to rake it back to find a leak, you will understand my point. Hopefully you won't. Even then you need a special rake made for pulling & pushing the stone or you WILL puncture the membrane. No its not paper thin, but its at best either .045 or the heavier .060 thickness. It may or may not be reinforced, which is a cross pattern of strong synthetic thread sandwiched in between. Any sharp or pointed object will have no problem penetrating it if one is walking around up there and steps on that object and its pointed at the membrane. Will it def happen?, maybe not, but I have seen it happen. And hope you never need to patch that roof. I have, and it ain't fun or easy. That rock does hold dirt & debris from the air and without using a solvent you won't get that membrane clean enough to adhere a patch to. Its a bandaid at that point which will come off in time.

Not to mention you must be careful if you are walking over it to inspect the roof. Sharp corners, delaminating stones etc, can puncture the membrane very easily.

"Very easy" is an exaggeration... this material is very tough.

If you have a left over pc, test your theory of how tough it is. Yes for non traffic conditions it will be just fine. I am basically saying when you go up to sweep your chimney, be careful of any sharp stone if there is any, they WILL puncture that membrane easier than you think. I car tire is even tougher, but when a mail, screw or even long enough sharp pc of glass or anything sharp will poke through the tire & the inner tube if it has one. Do you thing that membrane is tougher than a tire? Again, just be cautious and you'll be fine. Don't and you see how much moving stone to find a leak sucks.

There is a base sheet laid first, then the TPO. There was no need to insulate the deck, as there is R50-R60 in the ceiling below.

Base sheet helps yes, as long as they hammered any high nails from the deck down. If its nailed down of course. If its concrete the base sheet protects from any lil points of the concrete if any. Again not saying it will happen with your roof, but if nails are used for wood decking, & they back out, they can in time back right through the membrane, no matter what membrane you use.

Again... TPO is NOT Hypalon... noone around here uses Hypalon any more.

Yes you are correct, the two are different in many ways, but also similar in others. I will concede that TPO does have some better characteristics than Hypalon.
So looks like you made an informed decision, kudos to you.

As Elk stated the membrane is not keeping your house cooler. Its the white membrane

I never stated otherwise.... sheesh.

Studies by Oak Ridge Nat'l Labs show that the 'heat load vs. time' curve is only 'flattened out' for the ballasted vs unballasted white TPO. I can dig up the link if you wish.

I have no clue what your trying to say here, save the link, It ain't on my house

My choices were more limited than you think; hot mop, torchdown mod bit, or TPO. I think I chose best.

Good old fashioned tar would have lasted 20-30 years if properly maintained. And cheaper to install.

Me personally, I would have went one of two ways. Either framed it out & sheathed & shingled,

Shingles on a low-slope roof? That would be a disaster...

Thats why I said ", then sheathing put on & shingles...hint hint, the framing would have been to build the slopped deck That creates the pitch needed.

White EPDM has not fared well in this part of the country, with UV breakdown much earlier than expected. What they learned is it's the 'carbon black' that gives EPDM it's UV resistance.

All these roofs can be coated to protect from UV, in any color you want.

We'll touch base in 10 years, which is when the warranty expires...[/quote]

Thats why the warranty is 10 yrs. Thats alot of money for a 10 yr warranty. With shingles, you could have gone 30,40, 50 & up.
Enjoy the new roof[[/

 

[Hogwildz]

Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense.

Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.

Go to your local hardware store, they have paint & primer specifically made for metal & tin roofing. You can use a roller to put it on. If you have the wide panels you can get an 18" roller dad & cage.

Is it a standing seam roof, or corrugated ?

 

[Hogwildz]

Precaud,
I am, sorry if you took my original post as an attack. You corrected me on a few things, and I thank you.
Remember, you can find the argument & answer to both sides of any question online.
I am sure your roof is a good one, and hope it lasts many years.
Good luck, I will not be posting any replies to you responses on this subject.
I am willing to answer anyones roofing questions they may have. I may not have all the answers, but I will answer what I can.
Most important other than knowing how to install a roof, is knowing how to stop a leak quick! , then permanently.

 

[littlesmokey]

Thanks for all the information. Think I will stick with the metal roof for now and save up for a new all metal roof a year or two down the road. What I have doesn't leak, but it does rattle in the wind and clatters in the rain. Not unpleasant though. It doesn't look so good, but I have been talking with a commercial paint company, thinking about applying a commercial floor epoxy. They are getting the facts together about durability, but say they have used it on loading docks at warehouses and it really takes the punishment. They have some made for outdoor use, just will need a primer and two top coats. Says I can do it myself for less than the cost of automotive paint (?) Not too sure that's true. This stuff won't bridge cracks, so the prep work wil be intense.

Then again, if it ain't broke don't fix it. May wait a few years.

Go to your local hardware store, they have paint & primer specifically made for metal & tin roofing. You can use a roller to put it on. If you have the wide panels you can get an 18" roller dad & cage.

Is it a standing seam roof, or corrugated ?

Roof is a standing rib, but a real old seam style, it is better than corragated, but not as good as a true standing rib. Actually I think the rear 2/3rds of the building were a mail order package. Seriously, the windows are metal casings, metal siding and metal roof everythig is based on two feet even. I think they ordered it by section and did the assembly from the REA crates. The exterior siding is original on the Southside, but the building butts to another with a two foot space, the rest has been sided in the last fifteen years. Kind of nostalgic, but it's tight and weather resistant.

I'm in rural South East Idaho, and deal with two seasons of weather , Winter and June - July. If things work the way the manager at the paint wholesaler I may get all the material free, and a patch test to boot. Seems he thinks the idea is a good one to sell longer lasting paint to farmers and ranchers metal outbuildings.

 

[begreen]

lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )

If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.

 

[littlesmokey]

lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )

If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.

Figured out how to add location, but when you live beyond the pale of any town, it's hard to give a location. So I teased the issue and said where I think I would like to call home, far West Wyoming? Too North Utah? (Oh, that doesn't work) Spitting Distance to Colorado? AAAHHHH. I burn local pine, and pinion/cedar, if it's real old, but the local abundant crop is Aspen. I think it stinks, burn terrible with no heat, but the burls make great bowls. I can go North and get some Tamarack, fir and lodgepole, but the local stuff does the job. Besides, I don't ever have to buy Pinesole for that whole house fresh scent.

 

[keyman512us]

lil smokey can you add your region to your avatar? It really helps to know the region when someone is posting questions or advice. (Now I know there's another pine burner here )

If you do decide to paint, take the warnings about respirators seriously. I don't know the paint yet, but many metal epoxies require very serious air filtration. If you paint the roof there will be a lot of evaporation happening and even though outdoors, the fumes can be brain damaging.

Figured out how to add location, but when you live beyond the pale of any town, it's hard to give a location. So I teased the issue and said where I think I would like to call home, far West Wyoming? Too North Utah? (Oh, that doesn't work) Spitting Distance to Colorado? AAAHHHH. I burn local pine, and pinion/cedar, if it's real old, but the local abundant crop is Aspen. I think it stinks, burn terrible with no heat, but the burls make great bowls. I can go North and get some Tamarack, fir and lodgepole, but the local stuff does the job. Besides, I don't ever have to buy Pinesole for that whole house fresh scent.

It really amazes me how "hearty" 'western woodburners' trully are...(I lived in Colorado for four years). Not much fuel in them thar' forrests. Good thing is you guys can put a lot of "old pine wives' tales" to rest. I hear the stories all the time and tell people "go out west...your attitude about pine will change".

A friend of mine back in Colorado has a nice little spread...with a fireplace or two. One trip out I brought him some "display firewood"(snow white paper birch). A short while latter, talking with him on the phone, he jokingly stated "Hey you were right...someone stopped by the other day and commented 'that is the most beautifull ASPEN firewood I have ever seen..Where did you find that?'..."

 

[Hogwildz]

Roof is a standing rib, but a real old seam style, it is better than corragated, but not as good as a true standing rib. Actually I think the rear 2/3rds of the building were a mail order package. Seriously, the windows are metal casings, metal siding and metal roof everythig is based on two feet even. I think they ordered it by section and did the assembly from the REA crates. The exterior siding is original on the Southside, but the building butts to another with a two foot space, the rest has been sided in the last fifteen years. Kind of nostalgic, but it's tight and weather resistant.

The old style standing seams were completely hand formed. I had the fortunate opportunity to work for an old timer that did everything the old fashioned hand made ways. I had the privilege to do several hand formed standing seams metal roofs. The panels were made out of Terne coated tin. , bent at shop on a break. then taken to the job & each panel installed with the same tin material into clips. The clips are nailed to the roof, then bend up and follow the panels raised edge and then bent back over the edge and down. The next panel butts against the first panel's edge & the clip. The raised edge where the two panels meet with he clip sandwiched in between is then hammered over a dolly to form a 90° bend, then hammered again against the side of the another dolly to bend it close to a 45° bend. Then these old scissor type kickers are used to finish the bend over to meet itself again using your foot to kick them closed over the seam. Then hand dollied once more and another complete bend over again. There is also soldering involved that uses an old charcoal cooker and old lead soldering irons heated with wood coals. Its a long tedious but very fun process. When complete it feels very accomplished to have made the entire roof by hand with only old tools. The entire roof started out merely as a roll of Terne coated tin, and finished as a beautiful roof that will last 50-or more years if kept up & kept painted.

It is basically a lost art. Its not taught anymore, except for maybe a few old timers and a very few willing apprentices with patience to learn.
Now standing seam roofs are made of painted galvanized, aluminum or galvalume an alum. coated galvanized. Usually they come with a 20 yr Kynar 500 finish paint. (its been a while, I might be off on the warranty time) and are fairly expensive, depending on which metal you use.
The new standing seam roofs usually either snap locl one over the previous panel, almost like siding, or a baffle system that snaps over each set of raises ends in a seam. If anyone is looking at these roofs, this system should have the snap on baffle riveted or fastened to the seams. Otherwise in heat & cooling cycles the baffles actually slide down the seam due to the fact they are only clipped onto clips holding the baffle over the seam.

Then there is the less expensive barn roof type metal roofs which are more corrugated and the ends just overlap. Using neoprene washered screws to fasten them down. Some homeowners do use these on their homes. Its an economical way to re roof your home. But they can blow off easier & aren't the top choice for many.

Ok, enough type, I just loved working with metal & it really is an art. Its also fascinating to me how the old timers did things with hand tools only and no machinery.
Sorry long winded, I miss some things about roofing & working with metal is one of them.



I'm in rural South East Idaho, and deal with two seasons of weather , Winter and June - July. If things work the way the manager at the paint wholesaler I may get all the material free, and a patch test to boot. Seems he thinks the idea is a good one to sell longer lasting paint to farmers and ranchers metal outbuildings.[/quote]

You can't beat that deal. I suggest priming then at least 2 top coats. I did my old mans barn about 10 yrs ago and its still holding up today. I forget the brand of paint used, but it was made to go right over rust, neutralizing it, then top coat. Held up very well.
If you roof is solid & tight, then just make it look good again. No sense in fixing something that isn't broke. Keep it painted & may outlast you.