My stove won't stay lit

[briansol]

Help!

I have a new this season Lennox/country Winslow insert model p140
(broken link removed)

I burned through my 1st ton no problems.

It started making less heat, so i figured it was time to clean the thing fully.

since i've cleaned the stove, i have not been able to re-start it for more than 20 min.

It fires right up, burns great, then the auger just stops feeding pellets. It eventually just burns out.
Sometimes, it will throw an error code (out of pellets, snap switch detetcs no flame), but most the time it stays green.

My dealer is worthless and i can't seem to get ahold of anyone at lennox who wants to help me.


I've triple (hell, 20-times over now) re-checked everything, all the seals, its freshly clean inside and out.... and it was working mint before i did all this cleaning. I feel like it was me, but it could just be coincidence. I figured if i did something wrong, it wouldn't start up at all. But it does, and then just dies out.

Anyone have any pointers?

 

[imacman]

Since you've said that you've checked that everything is sealed (door, ash pan, etc), did you check to make sure the vacuum tube isn't clogged from ash that got stirred up during cleaning, and got sucked up when you started the stove?

Just a thought....hate to say this, not 100% sure but I think it has to be something that happened during cleaning.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Check page 23 and clean the proof of fire switch, depending on what you cleaned how you cleaned it you might have left the proof of fire switch dirty.

I'm not saying that is the problem but it could be.

 

[briansol]

All switches were removed and cleaned (they were clean anyway...) I took apart both the blowers and cleaned everything. I cleaned everything in the manual. There's really nothing else to clean expect the cap on the roof of the house. Visual from the ground says it looks ok. A little smoke can be seen coming out of it like usual. I can't believe that 1 ton of pellets would clog it anyway (this was installed brand new in spetember). The exhaust tube wasn't too too bad.. it was mostly at the bottom of the tube anyway, and i shook it until ash stopped coming down.

same with the vacuum tube and exhaust pipe. i shook it all out and cleaned it all out. It's nearly as clean as the day it got installed.

I don't have an ash pan on my unit... just a door to the burn pot and the ash collects around it. the 'rope' seal is still white and appears to seal good.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you cleaned the proof of fire switch and then cleaned the combustion blower or the exhaust vent you could have fouled the switch.

But like I said that may not be the cause, your manual indicates that it tends to be the cause of some otherwise unexplained shut downs.

Your symptom seems to indicate that the stove thinks there is no fire, it is at about the correct startup go/no go decision time which varies by stove model etc...

As a test if that switch can be bypassed (consult your manual as to how to bypass it) you could bypass it and try starting the stove.

Also if you accidentally loosened the wires while cleaning that could cause the same effect. Remember to do the bypass of the switch and reseating of those wires make sure the stove is off and unplugged.

 

[briansol]

Well, I fixed it.

What did i do? I kicked it.


lol seriously. I was getting so frustrated with the thing, so i kicked it on the side. It's been on all night now... approaching 12 hours


So, i don't know what i did... maybe something was a HAIR off, and the kick re-positioned it.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Or knocked the ash off, etc ...

 

[Panhandler]

Well, I fixed it.

What did i do? I kicked it.


lol seriously. I was getting so frustrated with the thing, so i kicked it on the side. It's been on all night now... approaching 12 hours


So, i don't know what i did... maybe something was a HAIR off, and the kick re-positioned it.

Right foot or left? Straight on or soccer style?

 

[briansol]

right side, soccer kick. haha

thanks for the help though guys. I have a feeling i'll be back when it acts up again :X

 

[briansol]

well, that was fast. it's acting up again. topped off the hopper, and it shut off.

going for start #3

 

[Dr_Drum]

Is your stove actually going out due to lack of pellets while you can see the auger moving, or is the auger stopping as if you hit the off button? If the auger is stopping, some switch is probably telling it to stop.
Mike -

 

[Dr_Drum]

Well, I fixed it.

What did i do? I kicked it.


lol seriously. I was getting so frustrated with the thing, so i kicked it on the side. It's been on all night now... approaching 12 hours


So, i don't know what i did... maybe something was a HAIR off, and the kick re-positioned it.

wonder if it was a sticking thermo disk.

What's is a thermo disk? Where is it? Are we supposed to clean it?
Thanks in advance, Mike -

 

[lpgreg]

Is the ready light flashing on your control board when the stove malfunctions? Is the convection blower working?

 

[briansol]

The auger just stops feeding pellets. No error lights come on until 5-10 min after that happens and the fire is completely out. The error is two short red blinks, which means 'proof of fire' or out of pellets. *Duh*. There's no fire because it stopped feeding it pellets in the first place.
Blower does kick on when it should. It just doesn't make sense that it just stops feeding it pellets. *shrug*. i'm calling the dealer on monday and ordering up a tech i guess. Warranty or not, i still have to pay for the house visit.

 

[shyann]

I also had winslow but the insert model that was doing the same thing. The dealer was blaming my chimney saying we had to much combustible air. I couldn't keep it running more than 10 minutes. I insisted on my money back which they did do after getting a third party involved. I bought a Quadrafire Classic Bay. Soooo much better. Good luck!

 

[Dr_Drum]

If no pellets are coming out and you can see or hear the auger still trying to feed, something is blocking the pellets. Did you notice long pellets over an inch. I've read this can cause an issue. Maybe try some different pellets?
Mike -

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have a copy of your stoves manual and what the two short blink code means depends upon which of the lights is flashing. The stove should be providing an unambiguous error code.

If this is the case:

Ready light flashes red short blinks

then this is the reason:

Proof of Fire Snap Switch Open (which really means the control board doesn't see it as being closed)

The proof of fire switch should close and stay closed as long as the temperature is high enough to indicate a fire is burning in the stove.

There are several reasons the switch may not be closing or staying closed, the switch itself is malfunctioning, the switch is insulated from the exhaust gases and therefor can not get hot enough to close or stay closed(dirty), or there is actually no fire in the fire pot (due to a faulty igniter or no fuel in the fire pot). The fire lights so the igniter is fine, pellets had to feed to be ignited so there were pellets, in fact since the stove is not flashing the ignite light and the ready light is not constant it has exited ignition mode.

This switch gets bypassed by the control board when the stove is in its ignition sequence.

So what to do?

Jumper the switch this would isolate the shut down cause to the switch provided the stove then stays running.

If it is the switch the two possibilities are the switch is not functioning (damaged) or dirty and therefor insulated from seeing its required temperature to function.

I am not one who likes to play the jumper game as you really need to watch the stove whenever it is run that way.

If it turns out that the stove still indicates the same problem then we have the wiring to the control board or the control board.

When the stove thinks this switch is open the auger will get turned off shutting the stove down.

Since kicking it allowed it to run (for awhile anyway) you likely have loose electrical connections, loose screws, and dirt (ash in this case) as candidates.

 

[briansol]

I also had winslow but the insert model that was doing the same thing. The dealer was blaming my chimney saying we had to much combustible air. I couldn't keep it running more than 10 minutes. I insisted on my money back which they did do after getting a third party involved. I bought a Quadrafire Classic Bay. Soooo much better. Good luck!

Damn, that sucks i really don't want to have to replace it

 

[briansol]

Is your stove actually going out due to lack of pellets while you can see the auger moving, or is the auger stopping as if you hit the off button? If the auger is stopping, some switch is probably telling it to stop.
Mike -

No, the auger isn't moving at all. The control board isn't telling it to feed at all.

 

[briansol]

If no pellets are coming out and you can see or hear the auger still trying to feed, something is blocking the pellets. Did you notice long pellets over an inch. I've read this can cause an issue. Maybe try some different pellets?
Mike -

i've tried 2 different kinds, both premiums.
American and Green Supreme

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

shyann,

If your dealer said to much combustible air he was off base, now if he said too much combustion air then all you had to do was restrict the air entering the stove.

Which begs the question briansol, have you watched the stove while this was going on and did the stove by any chance blow all of the pellets as well as the ash out of the burn pot? If this is the case then this may be of help:

The Winslow™ PS40 stove has a draft adjuster located at the left side
of the stove directly in front of the combustion blower. Should the stove
installation require long runs of vent pipe, a situation may be created
where excessive combustion air is flowing through the firebox and
causing the fuel to burn faster than it can be delivered to the Burn-Pot.
Should this happen, the draft can be slowed down by the adjuster. The
stove is shipped with the adjuster in the fully open position. To slow the
draft down, loosen the 5/32” allen head screw (A in Figure 54) and move
the adjuster handle toward the center of the stove. Retighten the screw
when the desired adjustment is reached.

 

[briansol]

Which begs the question briansol, have you watched the stove while this was going on and did the stove by any chance blow all of the pellets as well as the ash out of the burn pot? If this is the case then this may be of help:

It seems fine. The embers stay in the burn pot.... and just slowly fade out due to nothing else being added to the 'mix' to burn. Eventually, it just burns out completely.


I burned a full ton on whatever setting the draft adjuster is on now with no problems. I didn't touch it when i cleaned, so i don't think it's the culprit here.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Have you tried jumpering that switch (make sure the stove is both off and unplugged when placing the jumper?

In what order did you clean the stove?

Cleaning the flue after cleaning the combustion blower will cause soot to get into the horizontal pipe between the tee and the exhaust blower and possibly on the area behind that sensor.

 

[Dr_Drum]

Well, if the auger isn't feeding at all something is telling it not to. I'd probably go through all your cleaning steps over again. It was running fine, you cleaned it, now it doesn't run. Maybe you hit a wire and disconnected something, or as others mentioned, the sensor snap disk thing is dirty? Retrace your steps, you'll figure it out.
Mike -

 

[briansol]

I'm going to pick up a replacement snap switch after work tonight. The guy at the dealer says that's most likely the case, as they go bad a lot.