Napoleon 1400 trials.

[Thislilfishy]

Well, been burning our new 1400 for about a month I think.

It really is a budget stove and some items really show it. Our version has legs and no ash tray. This is the first budget part, where the ash tray goes they've simply bolted two pieces of steal over the stamped hole, with some welds holding it and the bolt left in place. The supplied fire brick is just broken to fit around this plate because it can't sit on top of it. The other thing that stands out is the arched door. The entire arch is covered by the face of the stove, so you still have a rectangle viewing area. Otherwise the stove seems well built with nice welds and decent finish.

Now to the burn. They advertise 8 hours, and to be honest I am at 9 hours now and about to reload as the stove top as finally dropped below 300 degrees. However to get there required constant tending. This is NOT a fire and forget stove. If you load it, and tend it until the flue and draft are closed then leave it, it's more like 5-6 hours with a stove full of ash and coals. It's taken me a lot of trial and error to get there as I only have experience with old smoke dragons. I tried messing with the secondary intake, and got mixed results. I finally put a flue damper in and this has helped tremendously. Even then, this stove wants to run hot, having a stove top therm is absolutely required with this stove. The manual says not to intentionally run the stove over 700, well that's nice, because even with the flue and draft completely closed she cruises at or just slightly over 700 (needle on the last zero of 700 on scale). It will stick there for a good hour. Prior to the flue damper install she has seen the stove top at 800 and flue temps slightly over 900. The other thing the flue damper did was to keep the flue and stove top temps very close, usually not more then 50 degrees apart. Prior to the damper the flue would always be a good 100 degrees hotter then the stove.

Hot starts (on a bed of coals) can take 30-45 minutes. Cold starts can take an hour before you get everything closed.

Now, how did I get 9 hours with this thing?

Hot started on a bed of coals about and inch or so deep. Wide open draft and flue. Wait for the flames to engulf most of the wood and slowly close the draft (usually in five steps). Reducing the draft a small amount each time the flames get full. Typically on the first attempt to full close the flames go out and the stove starts to cool. At which time I need to open the draft half way again and wait for the flames to come back. Within minutes you can hear the draft flowing hard and you can close the draft all the way in one step and watch the secondaries for a bit. After about 10 minutes of the draft being closed and the flames still roaring I can finally close the flue. Then I can pretty much ignore the stove and get about 3 hours of the stove top at 600~700 degrees. Then about two hours of the stove slowly dropping to 500 degrees. By this time it's a mass of hot coals, so to keep the heat going I open the flue damper all the way. Then for the next hour I slowly open the draft to full to keep the coals stoked. Then for the next three hours I open the stove hourly and stir up the coals until there is very little left. After nine hours the stove room is still 75 degrees and the second floor rooms at 68. The outside temps are about 28-32 today.

If I do not tend this stove for the full burn I expect the furnace to be on after about 6-8 hours which is set at 63.5 degrees and as I stated a stove full of coals.

Overall, for a budget stove, even with all the tending we are in line to be saving about $2500 in propane...half of the total cost of the stove and install! If you buy one of these stoves, keep in mind it's going to run hot and will required constant tending to get the best from it.



Ian

 

[Jearley35purdue]

Enjoyed your read. I've got the Napoleon 1402 Insert and it's my first season. Still getting it tweaked out and don't really know what is optimum just yet . My sequence is load her up with a descent bed of hot coals and run it wide open until top temps out about 500-550. I then shut it down it 4 steps attempting to keep my secondaries firing. If they go out I open back up and slow down my closing until things get hotter. Really only get it to cruise at 550-600 for a hour or so before things slow. Wood has about a year on it but I'm starting to think my storage shed (enclosed on 3 sides) didn't allow for great seasoning. Definitely dry inside but no air movement really. Moister meter says 20% on most but I dunno. Perhaps I shut things down too early and need to let it get hotter before starting the closing process....

 

[Thislilfishy]

Thanks, she's a real temperamental stove. I've started a new thread where my wood got wet. My burns seem a lot more controlled. Honestly if you can cruise at 550 you're doing good. My last load I filled her to the brim with my freshly moistened wood. I got the flue and stove top to about 400-450 this time and slowly shut her down like normal. What I did next is a little different. The fire all but went out, just a small flame at the top, the stove cruised like this for several hours at 400-450. Then the temp slowly started to climb to 600 and is currently slowly working its way back down now....5 hours later. I really don't think this stove wants to work the way other EPA stoves want to. It almost wants to run like a cat stove with a small slow burn that slowly builds. I find with mine if I let the temp climb too fast there is no turning back...she just runs wild. I'm going to continue like this for a while and do a thorough clean out to check for creosote build up. Even if so, it's better then a stove that blazes out of control.

Ian

 

[Jearley35purdue]

I hear u. I'm about 2 months in and probably should check for creosote build up just to get a gauge on how things are going. I really only had it get away once and that was because the door wasn't closed completely. I went to bed and had a nervous feeling as a newbie and came back down stairs to her set 750ish. Quickly realized she was suckin air at the door. Good thing I came down. I hate to hear you have to burn wet wood to keep it under control, just doesn't seem right. Just adds to the worry and additional maintenance with creosote. Sure there isn't air slipping past somewhere?

 

[Thislilfishy]

Yeah, no air leaks. What I do have is a 25-30' chimney that goes straight up with two 45's only at the first floor ceiling and very strong winds normally. So it tends to suck the air up the flue. Before the stove was installed we covered the flue with a few plastic bags, they just got sucked all the way up to the cap. Before the damper was installed you could hear the roar of the air going up the chimney on a good fire.

Ian

 

[mepellet]

Probably what you were hearing was the air entering the primary and secondary air openings. The same airflow rate should be entering the stove at those openings as the air going up the chimney. Same airflow rate going through a smaller opening (primary and secondary openings) creates the louder noise.

 

[KB007]

We have a Nap 1450 downstairs and when we ran that 24X7 I had no problems getting a decent overnight burn with lots of hot coals for a reload in the morning. With dry wood it runs like anything else, get it up to temp and close it down. I would leave it open about 1/4" at most.

Did you get the blower for it? To get max heat out it's highly recommended.

Have you checked the accuracy of your magnetic thermometer? Either with an IR gun or in your oven will work. They are often quite a ways off and it's good to check the accuracy (or lack thereof) before getting too hung up on temps.

 

[Jearley35purdue]

when you say you "tend" to the fire to draw the burn cycle what exactly do you mean? I stuff it, get it hot, shut down in stages, and let it go trying not to open it at all if I can? Is there something during the 5-6 hr cycle that you are doing unique to stretch it out??? I'm by no means an expert , but figured it was a set it and forget it type approach, but again I'm only getting 5-6 hr burns....

 

[Thislilfishy]

Yeah if you set and forget it's 5-6 hours of real heat and an hour or two of low heat. Basically I load it, get it running and let it burn until the temp drops to about 300. Then open up the draft to 3 and let it run for another hour, it typically sits at 3-400 at this stage (all coals mostly still log shaped). Once the temp drops again I'll stir it up and bring all the large coals to the front and open the draft fully. Then every 1/2 to hour I'll repeat bringing the coals to the front. Once the coals are down to the size of a golf ball or a bit smaller then it's time for a reload. This process wil keep the house comfortable for most of the day on one load if I am home to do this.

On work days I'll do a 3/4 load (not full to the brim) and get it running comfortably before I leave for work. When I get home there will be enough coals buried in the ash to restart and I'll do a partial load again and tend it until bed time. At about 9:30-10pm I'll do my overnight load, watch TV for an hour and get the full load burning comfortably and off to bed. The week day process means the furnace comes on about 6am, and typically about 3pm to maintain the house. On weekends when I am home the furnace doesn't normally come on at all, except maybe right before I get my carcass out of bed. Usually I'll hear the furnace kick on and let it cycle once before crawling out of bed to reload.


Ian

 

[Thislilfishy]

We have a Nap 1450 downstairs and when we ran that 24X7 I had no problems getting a decent overnight burn with lots of hot coals for a reload in the morning. With dry wood it runs like anything else, get it up to temp and close it down. I would leave it open about 1/4" at most.

Did you get the blower for it? To get max heat out it's highly recommended.

Have you checked the accuracy of your magnetic thermometer? Either with an IR gun or in your oven will work. They are often quite a ways off and it's good to check the accuracy (or lack thereof) before getting too hung up on temps.

No, and yes I assume the therm is not terribly accurate at upper temps. Mid range is pretty accurate as I tested it in my convection oven. However I know it's running hot because when it does you can smell the stove, I know the stove needs my attention when I can smell it....usually right away. Typically at this point the therm is about 700 degrees, which accurate or not, my nose knows.

I dont have a blower kit for it, but yes it does much better with it I bet. What I did instead was install a 54" ceiling fan above the stove, pulling air up which then blows down behind the stove. I also placed a free standing fan (this made a huge difference) so that it blows down onto the top of the stove. If I leave my draft open a 1/4" with dry wood, I'll just have a puddle of molten steal that used to be a stove. Even with my moistened wood I need to close the draft (and occasionally the damper) to keep things under 650.

Ian

 

[jimdrea]

I have a 1402 for 9 months now and like you I am tinkering. On well seasoned oak I stuff the fire box and get a hot 5 hour burn. My 1700 sq foot downstairs gets a comfy 73 degrees. After 5 hours the temp starts to dip. If I let it run on coals it will get the house to 68 degrees after 7 hours. Then I re stuff the box and burn again. I burn to supplement my oil and shut the oil furnace down during the day when none is home. I have save so far about 30% on last years oil consumption. My oil bill last year was 3500.00 and my Napoleon 1402 installed was 3400. so I figure a three year return on investment. Nothing though beats the comfort of wood heat.

 

[KB007]

I'd strongly suggest getting the blower for it. Yes, you can distribute some of the heat with a fan, but the blower does a much better job of it, especially when the stove gets down to the coaling stage. The blower is able to pass the air right where it needs to be, whereas an external fan bounces air off the sides, top, all sorts of things and just won't extract as much heat.

Have you tried shutting it down a little earlier and trying to let it cruise at a slightly lower temp? What stovetop temp are you shutting it down at?

 

[Thislilfishy]

I start shutting down at about 300, this is as early as I can shut it down as if I start earlier it just snuffs out. It stays there until i am able to completely close the draft. At this point I get a small almost smouldering fire at the top only, it will stay like that for a good hour and then slowly build its way up...in fact it just did it now, when I looked over it wasn't a huge fire but the stove top was at 700 and flue close to 800. I could see (and hear as the nappy ticks and creaks a lot when temps are changing) the fire was building so I shut the flue damper as well at that point, also turned the fan on to cool the stove top a bit. This brought the temps back down to 650ish. It should stay there now for quite some time. Without the flue damper I am sure this stove would be burned out in a few seasons if not sooner. Seems I am back into the dry wood again.

Iam

 

[carl s.]

We have blowers with our 1402 which I replaced just last season and vacuumed and cleaned today. Does anybody know how to get more heat from this insert? It gives good heat but we would like to get more of the heat that is going up the flue (which is insulated and 6 inches in diameter). Would a damper in the flue above the insert help a lot by slowing the burn? There seem to be gaps around the blowers, should these be filled in?

 

[begreen]

Is there a block off plate in the damper shelf?