Napoleon 1402 vs Non-Airtight

[LelandJF]

I've roamed the site a million times and because of the research, I decided on a Jotul F600 for my 2400sf home in NJ.

Then my grandparents purchased a new home with a Napoleon 1402 insert and offered it to me since they prefer the convenience of Nat Gas. I am not ready to pull the trigger on the Jotul of my dreams, but am interested in knowing if the Napoleon is a better band-aid than continuing to use my non-airtight.

The Napoleon 1402 claims "2000sf +", so I know it is not perfect, but I think it is a smart choice to install it for the time being.

16' of flue and a big opening to fill in my hearth.

Thoughts or questions to help me?

Thanks much.

 

[Grisu]

Depends what are your goals. If you are looking for 100% woodheat, the Napoleon has a 2.2 cu ft firebox which may not be quite enough when it gets really cold. The F600 would have a better chance of heating the whole house (depending also on your insulation) and will give you longer burn times. On the other hand, it is hard to beat free and you can always swap out the insert for the stove at a later time.

Is the chimney already lined with a 6" liner, preferably insulated? Napoleons usually need good draft to perform well. 16' may just be enough.

 

[mepellet]

My napoleon 1100c is 1.7cuft I believe and performs great. Almost too good. Will roast us out of the 1500sf that it is heating.

Actually looking to find ways to turn it down more. I replaced the door gasket and also placed a magnet over half of the secondary opening that is remaining when the draft control knob is pushed in all the way.

 

[begreen]

The Napoleon 1402 insert is a 2.25 cu ft unit. It's a good heater and will definitely help as long as you have a good supply of fully seasoned wood. If oak it will need at least a year or two of drying time, covered, after being split and stacked.

Note that modern stoves are not air-tight like some of the old stove. They have unrestricted secondary air and don't close the primary all the way. This is to prevent smoldering the fire and promote cleaner burning. One runs them a bit differently than the old stoves for this reason.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I've roamed the site a million times and because of the research, I decided on a Jotul F600 for my 2400sf home in NJ.

Then my grandparents purchased a new home with a Napoleon 1402 insert and offered it to me since they prefer the convenience of Nat Gas. I am not ready to pull the trigger on the Jotul of my dreams, but am interested in knowing if the Napoleon is a better band-aid than continuing to use my non-airtight.

The Napoleon 1402 claims "2000sf +", so I know it is not perfect, but I think it is a smart choice to install it for the time being.

16' of flue and a big opening to fill in my hearth.

Thoughts or questions to help me?

Thanks much.

I'm confused - Do you plan to run the 1402 as a free standing stove?

Either way I'm all for free. That's why I heat with wood in the first place: free heat.

 

[LelandJF]

My ultimate goal is to buy a larger free standing stove in the future.

My immediate question is whether to run my large old smoke spewing dragon of a stove or use the Napoleon until I purchase a new larger free standing stove (like the f600).

My current stove has about 3.3sf of firebox. Again, its a smoke dragon with an 8" hole at the top for the flue where a good portio of my heat escapes.

I don't know how larger and less efficient compares to smaller and more efficient. I'm hoping to benefit from the more efficient burn to over come the size difference.

I currently have an 8" terracota (sp?) flue that is already sleeved with an 8" steel pipe. I plan to run 6" stainless non-insulated corrugated, again, because it is free.

I was planning to run it as an insert.

Just want to know if switching out is a waste of time and effort.

 

[Grisu]

A modern EPA-approved stove/insert like the Napoleon is almost twice as efficient as an older smoke dragon. Thus, your wood consumption will be about cut in half provided the wood is dry with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. (Usually achieved by splitting and stacking it in a sunny and windy spot for two to three years.) They also burn cleaner so you may see less smoke coming out from the chimney and less creosote accumulation.

Again, its a smoke dragon with an 8" hole at the top for the flue where a good portio of my heat escapes.

Is the pipe you mention not connected to the stove or how do you mean this? For the Napoleon installing a block-off plate will be highly beneficial in keeping the heat in:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I was planning to run it as an insert.

In that case there's no question - do it. It very well may make enough heat and if it doesn't you're not out anything.

 

[LelandJF]

Is the pipe you mention not connected to the stove or how do you mean this? For the Napoleon installing a block-off plate will be highly beneficial in keeping the heat in:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

It is all connected, my flue comes straight down my chimney and connects directly to the stove top.

My firebox is just a box with an 8" hole at the top where the flue connects for smoke (and heat) to escape. I thought new stoves were set up differently... burn tubes and cats

Either way THANK YOU for the insight.

 

[Grisu]

Maybe it's a heatform fireplace actually? Could you please post a picture to make sure an insert can be installed there?

 

[LelandJF]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-jotul-f-500.79242/

 

[Grisu]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/my-jotul-f-500.79242/

??

 

[LelandJF]

Newbie picture posting problem... Will try from my home computer.

Sorry, I am describing it poorly. I have an older woodstove set inside a hearth that may have been a fireplace at one time.
This is not my house, stove, or pumpkins, but I have a similar setup.
(broken image removed)

There is a 8" steel pipe that connects to the top of my stove and runs continuously and straight up through my masonry/terracotta lined chimney and exits at the top with a chimney cap.

 

[begreen]

We'll need a shot of the actual fireplace to understand what the unit is being installed in. Do you know if this fireplace has a metal or a masonry chimney (clay tiles) above the fireplace?

 

[LelandJF]

Are you asking about my current setup?

There is a 8" steel pipe that connects to the top of my stove and runs straight up through a metal plate and the pipe continues up through my masonry/terracotta lined chimney and exits at the top with a chimney cap. So... brick exterior, original clay square terracotta, sleeved with 8" pipe.

Figured out how to load my picture. Let me know if you want other angles. This is my stove and hearth, but I now have a vaulted ceiling.

The black pipe exiting the top of the stove continues straight up through my exterior brick chimney. No bends, kinks, or breaks in the pipe.

There is a piece of metal plate on the top inside of the recessed portion with an 8" hole that the black stove pipe passes through before enteringand continuing through the masonry portion of the chimney.

 

[begreen]

That looks like a straightforward installation. The metal flue liner must be stainless steel, not regular steel smoke pipe.

 

[LelandJF]

I was planning on running 6" stainless corrugated stove pipe that I am also getting for free inside of the 8" pipe, that ok?

 

[begreen]

Yes, it should be.

 

[LelandJF]

Thanks for all the time and help. Will try to remember to upload the installed pics.... what a great website.

-Jay

 

[wildwildwest]

I currently have an 8" terracota (sp?) flue

What is terracota? I have only heard the term used on clay plant pots. Thanks

 

[begreen]

Terracotta is what is used for flue tiles. Same stuff as for flower pots.