Napoleon Wood Burning Insert EPI3C

[lostwoodworker]

Hi everyone. This is my first post. I've looked everywhere for an answer to this question before posting this, so please forgive me if I've overlooked it hidden somewhere. I purchased this Napoleon Wood Burning EPI3C insert last winter to put into my inefficient fireplace. I bought this from someone off of Craigslist and it was brand new. It says its supposed to heat an area 1100 sq ft I believe. But it barely heats an area of 12x12. A far cry from what its supposed to. It seems the blower is really weak. It runs, but the air that it moves is pathetic. Its on its fastest setting and I have verified that. The fan doesn't make any strange noises and it runs quietly and smoothly.

On the flip side, I bought a 1980's insert and put it in the basement and that thing ROARS its heat! Its fan is 3 times stronger and heats up the whole basement within an hour.

What I'm needing help with is I'm wondering if there is a way to get this fan to run faster? Move more air? I don't want to sell it, so that's not an option.

I appreciate any help you can give me to get this going in the right direction.

 

[bholler]

What I'm needing help with is I'm wondering if there is a way to get this fan to run faster? Move more air? I don't want to sell it, so that's not an option.

Well we need a little info first. How are these inserts hooked up? Are they just slid into the fireplace or do they have a full liner?

Then what wood are you using and what is the moisture content of that wood? What is your burning procedure?

 

[lostwoodworker]

Well we need a little info first. How are these inserts hooked up? Are they just slid into the fireplace or do they have a full liner?

Then what wood are you using and what is the moisture content of that wood? What is your burning procedure?

Thanks for the reply. I'm using well seasoned Cherry and Ash wood. The heat that it produces is great. The insert is black pipe that goes about 8 feet up into the chimney to get enough draw. None of this affects the strength of the blower though.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the reply. I'm using well seasoned Cherry and Ash wood. The heat that it produces is great. The insert is black pipe that goes about 8 feet up into the chimney to get enough draw. None of this affects the strength of the blower though.

no but it will greatly effect the heat output and safety of the install.

 

[lostwoodworker]

no but it will greatly effect the heat output and safety of the install.

Is everyone in here as helpful as you? Where did I ask for help with my install? Or where did I ask for the help on the amount of heat being generated from inside my firebox? I'm pretty sure I was asking for help with my blower. That is what I'm looking at needing help with.

 

[bholler]

Is everyone in here as helpful as you? Where did I ask for help with my install? Or where did I ask for the help on the amount of heat being generated from inside my firebox? I'm pretty sure I was asking for help with my blower. That is what I'm looking at needing help with.

Well it doesn't matter how much that blower moves if the box is being cooled by all of the air flowing around it and up the chimney around the stove pipe. I am sorry for assuming you wanted to get more heat out of your insert. if all you want to do is move more luke warm air around your room just pull the blower and order a bigger one from Granger or mcmaster carr. But that will not make it heat any better and it will not make your setup safe or code compliant.

I am sorry but I am a professional sweep and when asked for advice I need to know what the situation is. I now know your stove is not installed correctly and that is most likely why you are having performance issues. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear but it is the truth

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Well it doesn't matter how much that blower moves if the box is being cooled by all of the air flowing around it and up the chimney around the stove pipe. I am sorry for assuming you wanted to get more heat out of your insert. if all you want to do is move more luke warm air around your room just pull the blower and order a bigger one from Granger or mcmaster carr. But that will not make it heat any better and it will not make your setup safe or code compliant.

I am sorry but I am a professional sweep and when asked for advice I need to know what the situation is. I now know your stove is not installed correctly and that is most likely why you are having performance issues. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear but it is the truth

Go get 'em, bholler! I really admire the licking you take and keep coming back for more. Not enough of us would do the same. black pipe up 8', I'm sure you have an opinion about that, but instead you just gave him what he thought he wanted to know: Granger or mcmaster carr. I bet he'll find out after he puts in that bigger fan that you know what you are talking about.

You are appreciated my friend, and happy new year.

 

[bholler]

I bet he'll find out after he puts in that bigger fan that you know what you are talking about.

I am assuming that as well but hey if he knows more about how wood stoves work than me more power to him. lol

Happy new year to you as well

 

[lostwoodworker]

Well it doesn't matter how much that blower moves if the box is being cooled by all of the air flowing around it and up the chimney around the stove pipe. I am sorry for assuming you wanted to get more heat out of your insert. if all you want to do is move more luke warm air around your room just pull the blower and order a bigger one from Granger or mcmaster carr. But that will not make it heat any better and it will not make your setup safe or code compliant.

I am sorry but I am a professional sweep and when asked for advice I need to know what the situation is. I now know your stove is not installed correctly and that is most likely why you are having performance issues. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear but it is the truth

Well it doesn't matter how much that blower moves if the box is being cooled by all of the air flowing around it and up the chimney around the stove pipe. I am sorry for assuming you wanted to get more heat out of your insert. if all you want to do is move more luke warm air around your room just pull the blower and order a bigger one from Granger or mcmaster carr. But that will not make it heat any better and it will not make your setup safe or code compliant.

I am sorry but I am a professional sweep and when asked for advice I need to know what the situation is. I now know your stove is not installed correctly and that is most likely why you are having performance issues. I am sorry if that is not what you want to hear but it is the truth

My opinion is you should have said all that in post 4 insteading of waiting for what type of reply you might get back from that simple vague response you gave. You seriously could of educated someone here the correct way instead of sounding holier than holy. Everything you saved up for post 6 makes sense and you are right, the air traveling out of my chimney is probably cooling my firebox and might explain why my room isn't getting warm. I'm easy to get along with but don't talk down to me.

 

[bholler]

My opinion is you should have said all that in post 4 insteading of waiting for what type of reply you might get back from that simple vague response you gave. You seriously could of educated someone here the correct way instead of sounding holier than holy. Everything you saved up for post 6 makes sense and you are right, the air traveling out of my chimney is probably cooling my firebox and might explain why my room isn't getting warm. I'm easy to get along with but don't talk down to me.

Well I am sorry if I offended you but I cant always take the time do give everyone a full lesson on the proper installation of stoves and the potential problems with their install. In fact I have not even started to go into the potential safety issues with your install because you got all defensive when I simply suggested your heat output issues were not from the blower. If you actually want help I am willing to help you but I don't need to be insulted for doing it.

 

[lostwoodworker]

Well I am sorry if I offended you but I cant always take the time do give everyone a full lesson on the proper installation of stoves and the potential problems with their install. In fact I have not even started to go into the potential safety issues with your install because you got all defensive when I simply suggested your heat output issues were not from the blower. If you actually want help I am willing to help you but I don't need to be insulted for doing it.

Ok, then lets move on from this. What is your suggestions? I'm all ears. My 8ft pipe into the full brick chimney that is lined was put in because the insert would not burn without the pipe. There wasn't sufficient draw to get enough air into the box. I didn't have the means or money to get a full pipe in there and I also didn't want to spend money on something that was the wrong thing. Its a 6" pipe, but because this is a fireplace on top of a fireplace (basement) the chimney has two chimney's in one. They never combine and are separate on the inside, but they are not straight shots to the top. They both have a slight twist/bend. I thought about getting the flex pipe off ebay for $350 or so bucks with the cap on top, but I had mixed feelings about the flex pipe. What I wanted was the Stainless steel double wall pipe, but every 3 ft section is $80. So lets say I get the pipe to run to the top, what keeps the draft from running between the lining of the chimney and the outside of the double wall pipe? A cap? At the top? Or a cap at the bottom?

 

[bholler]

They both have a slight twist/bend. I thought about getting the flex pipe off ebay for $350 or so bucks with the cap on top,

Yes that is the type you should be using although I have to question the quality of a $350 ebay liner. It would definitely be better and safer than the partial liners of black pipe you have now. What you have is unsafe for several reasons. You cannot use black pipe in areas where it is not exposed because it will deteriorate pretty quickly and you will never know. Then you have the way it is connected which is called a direct connect. If done right a direct connect does meet code but is far from the best solution. But yours does not even meet those requirements because it is not sealed at the damper area with a metal plate and it is not sealed to the clay liner. Even done correctly direct connects are difficult to clean properly and will never draft as well as a true liner.

What I wanted was the Stainless steel double wall pipe, but every 3 ft section is $80.

That is not the right product for you application it is meant to be a freestanding chimney not inside an existing one.


Now if you do a liner it should also be wrapped in insulation it would need to be an insulation kit that is approved as a chimney liner insulation. This will greatly improve safety and performance. And the liner will be sealed at the top of the chimney and should be sealed at the bottom with a metal plate as well.

 

[lostwoodworker]

Yes that is the type you should be using although I have to question the quality of a $350 ebay liner. It would definitely be better and safer than the partial liners of black pipe you have now. What you have is unsafe for several reasons. You cannot use black pipe in areas where it is not exposed because it will deteriorate pretty quickly and you will never know. Then you have the way it is connected which is called a direct connect. If done right a direct connect does meet code but is far from the best solution. But yours does not even meet those requirements because it is not sealed at the damper area with a metal plate and it is not sealed to the clay liner. Even done correctly direct connects are difficult to clean properly and will never draft as well as a true liner.



That is not the right product for you application it is meant to be a freestanding chimney not inside an existing one.


Now if you do a liner it should also be wrapped in insulation it would need to be an insulation kit that is approved as a chimney liner insulation. This will greatly improve safety and performance. And the liner will be sealed at the top of the chimney and should be sealed at the bottom with a metal plate as well.

Do you have one in mind that I could locate off ebay?

 

[lostwoodworker]

(broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chimney-Liner-Kit-6-Inch-X25-Ft-/162340687594?hash=item25cc424eea:g:4IYAAOSw5dNWicp1)

 

[bholler]

Do you have one in mind that I could locate off ebay?

I have no clue what is available on ebay I only buy from chimney industry suppliers. But I can tell you that my cost on the stuff we trust and use all the time would be double that $350. I would just be very skeptical of the quality for something priced that low.

 

[lostwoodworker]

I have no clue what is available on ebay I only buy from chimney industry suppliers. But I can tell you that my cost on the stuff we trust and use all the time would be double that $350. I would just be very skeptical of the quality for something priced that low.

Above you post is a link to one. Mind looking at it?

 

[bholler]

That kit may also be perfectly fine and I know it is better than what you have so if that is all you can afford right now I understand that. I would just hate to see you spend on that and then have to replace it in a few years.

 

[bholler]

Above you post is a link to one. Mind looking at it?

I just did my last post was concerning that we seem to have cross posted. Like I said it is unknown and the extremely low cost would worry me.

 

[lostwoodworker]

I just did my last post was concerning that we seem to have cross posted. Like I said it is unknown and the extremely low cost would worry me.

Cash is a big thing right now. Or lack of. I'll keep looking for one that is insulated.

 

[bholler]

Cash is a big thing right now. Or lack of. I'll keep looking for one that is insulated.

I get that believe me. You can just get an insulation kit for any liner it does not have to come with it.

 

[lostwoodworker]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-x-20-Flex...443166?hash=item3cb4dd5a1e:g:kUcAAOSwpDdU9Hvl