Need Advice for Cutting a Tree

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I've started to cut up a downed black locust tree with my chainsaw but need some advice for a tricky part. The tree is laying on its side. I started from the top, working my way toward the trunk. The problem is that there is another limb on which the larger section of the tree is resting, so my saw pinches when I try cutting into it. How do people deal with this problem safely? There must be a way. It's too much good firewood to ignore.

Thanks very much.

 

[Joe F]

Well, depending on how it's positioned, but normally you would make a relief cut on the opppsite side, Such as you start cutting from the top them you bring the chain saw from the bottom and start cutting upward. (if the tree in laying on it's side. Post up a picture to see what it looks like.

 

[Corey]

Sounds like you're going about it pretty much the right way. Usually there will be 1-2 branches holding the tree up. I usually cut away most every thing else, then study the situation closely. Cutting these 'support' branches will usually cause the whole mess to shift. So you want to make sure you have an escape path and there is nothing that is going to come crashing down on you - and if possible, make the tree shift away from you.

Sometimes you can cut most of the top, then start working up the trunk which will release the pressure. But sometimes you just have to go for it. The saw should only pinch on one side - the cut will normally open up on the other side. But, if the branch is under nearly pure compression - it will pinch the saw all the way around. You might have to cut other branches or the trunk to relieve the pressure.

Just beware - cutting branches under load - they can snap or pop loose at any moment. Sometimes they can jump quite a ways. So study the situation carefully, estimate how much load is on the branch and where it wants to go. Don't be in that area when it lets go!

 

[Hurricane]

I usually carry a wooden wedge with me, like the kind you would use to keep a door open. I cut half way through and smack the wedge in on top of the saw and then just cut straight through. I use the wooden wedge for obvious reasons. The wooden wedge keeps the wood from pinching and never had any more pinching problems after I started doing this.

 

[crazy_dan]

I do the same except I use a felling wedge they are plastic. start cutting and just drop the wedge in and move it down every so often and the saw doesn't get pinched.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Do you mean that you hammer the wedge in far enough that it's touchng the chain? This isn't bad for the chain? I like this idea, though.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Do you mean that you hammer the wedge in far enough that it's touchng the chain? This isn't bad for the chain? I like this idea, though.

No, and not really. It is bad for your falling wedges, however.

 

[kevin j]

not hammer them in, just smack them into the cut with your hand, or a piece of branch, to keep the cut from closing up. You are trying to hold the cut from closing, not wedge it back out after it has closed.

Put them in as soon as the bar is deep enough so the wedges will clear. Plastic, 6 inch wedges. Big felling wedges will fall over sideways. And NOT steel splitting wedge. When, not if, you will take a chain that way.

You will go through many plastic ones. They drop down into the cut if the log bends the other way and the cut opens. Thin end hits top chain run and it flies off into center field with plastic chewed off. They can get pretty bad before tossing though.
I usually drill holes across the thin direction just under the head. Put a twig through the hole. It spans the cut and keeps the wedge from sliding down into the cut if it opens. You can also put a few inches of rope through to tie knots on each side. Anything to make the wedge wider than the opening cut and buy some time to react.

Or tie a very light rope about two feet long, one end to each wedge, with several knots on each side of each wedge. The knots keep the wedge from dropping down, and the line makes the far one easier to retrieve when it either sails or simply drops to the ground after the cut is done. Not have to go get it, or remember where it fell. Keeps them together and easier to carry also. Can't store in pocket so easy, but you can drape them over the log until you get the cut started. I always have two small ones in left rear pocket for quick access, regardless if using the ones with rope or twigs.

If decent sized wood, I usually set two wedges, about 10 oclock and 2 oclock on the log. If you just set one at 12 oclock it keeps it open but the log can pivot about the vertical axis as you reach the bottom of the cut. Then either the near side opens and far side closes or vice versa. Two wedges prevent that, and as you go out the bottom or meet the bottom cut (assuming it is a snap cut in air) it opens up with more control of how it falls.

Always read what is supporting, where the spring poles/stored energy is, and which way things might or could move. Until things are safety on the ground in small enough pieces, there are many hazards.


kcj

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Wow, Kevin. Your method sounds effective, but pretty complex for me. I'll read it a few more times. Thanks.

 

[XX78]

I've started to cut up a downed black locust tree with my chainsaw but need some advice for a tricky part. The tree is laying on its side. I started from the top, working my way toward the trunk. The problem is that there is another limb on which the larger section of the tree is resting, so my saw pinches when I try cutting into it. How do people deal with this problem safely? There must be a way. It's too much good firewood to ignore.

Thanks very much.

My first post on this forum, but I worked several years for a number of tree services while in college, and love to run saws hard and fast whenever I get the chance. When we felled trees we never started at the top unless it was against something it wasn't supposed to be. We always started a the trunk and had only one guy making the cuts. Was on a job and had a tree twist once while 2 guys were cutting. Result was a 044 to the thigh and some stitches. Anyways begin at the trunk and work your way towards the top of the tree. If there were any main branches that completely balanced or stabilized the trunk off the ground, sometimes we cut them last. Always eliminate top weight, i.e. cut off the branches that are up in the air (the ones opposite to the ones that are under the tree laying on the ground. This will lower the chance of the tree rolling if you cut a branch that is under the trunk. After removing any weight issues like that, you can make undercuts on the branches that are under the trunk. They are under extreme pressure so if you try to cut them from top to bottom if you are not careful you will pinch your saw and all your buddyies will make fun of you. If you cut from the underside, the branches will open up and almost split as you bring the bar in from the bottom. You have to think in terms of weight and pressure on branches. You wouldn't undercut branches that are affected only by gravity, it will pinch. Once you undercut those branches that are holding the trunk up if you do it slowly, the trunk will slowly melt into the ground. It is much safer for lesser experienced people to buck up the trunk and firewood once everything is on the ground. You may have to sharpen the chain once or twice, but its better than having the tree flip or a wedge fly out at you while running the saw. Oh yeah as you move from the trunk up, you should have a safer exit out of a bad situation (back toward the trunk)

If you take a logical approach, and cut with the limb pressure you won't need to impose any other extra force upon the tree to get it to do what you want it to do. It doesn't hurt to run that saw full throttle to cut as fast as possible.

HTH

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Thanks so much, xx78. Starting at the trunk is academic now, since I've already cut the top. But the trunk does have one limb that I can see supporting it. I am only an intermediate sawyer and am not sure I would feel safe cutting tis limb. I'm confused by your post. My tree is laying on the ground, supported partially by this limb. What do you mean "cut from the underside" of the limb? Do you mean saw upward from the ground into the limb at an angle, as if I were making a notch in it?

 

[Gooserider]

What I do is mostly what others have stated, with a few minor changes. I don't use wedges now, but I may well start, they are a good idea if the trees are big enough to use them. I usually work my way up and down the trunk cutting all the branches that are NOT holding the tree up. I will usually go out to the point where the branch isn't thick enough to be good firewood, or gets too having to many forks to be worth dealing with, and work my way back to the trunk cutting it to stove length chunks. Often I will leave 3-4' stubs on some branches to act as strategically placed, built in peavies for rolling sections of tree over later.

After I get down to a mostly bare trunk, I will start working my way along making cuts at least part way through the log at stove length intervals, being careful to avoid pinching the saw. If I can get all the way through the log, and/or have room to come up from beneath it with an undercut, great, if not, just keep going to the next cut. My objective is to partially cut everything, and break the trunk up into sections, getting as much weight off the branches holding things up as I can.

Usually in the course of doing this I will have a chance to gradually release those holding branches, and trim them back as above. I will also often go back if I get a section of trunk separated, and roll it over to finish the cuts I made earlier, especially if this lets me move those rounds out of the way a bit.

The key thing is to look at the situation before each cut and predict where things are likely to move, and plan how to handle them. Then as you cut watch for any planned or unplanned movements, and respond appropriately (if it wasn't planned usually stop, back up and let things settle, then re-analyze)

Harder to describe than it is to do....

Gooserider

 

[mike1234]

This is what I do too, except I make my own wooden wedges from hedge, no play in those. A friend I cut with uses a hard rubber wedge he bought. Cut part way, insert wedge above the saw blade, cut the rest of the way, and be ready for the limb to drop. Paint the wedge a bright color, it gets lost among the branches.

I usually carry a wooden wedge with me, like the kind you would use to keep a door open. I cut half way through and smack the wedge in on top of the saw and then just cut straight through. I use the wooden wedge for obvious reasons. The wooden wedge keeps the wood from pinching and never had any more pinching problems after I started doing this.

 

[kevin j]

QKevin. Your method sounds effective, but pretty complex for me. I’ll Q




-
-
not all all complex to do, just my wordiness.
others described the overall attack plan better, handling the weight and spring energy and getting things down flat on the ground.
I was just addressing use of wedges in bucking a trunk with bending in it like you described. Wedges are not for limbs and branches of course. Just think of them at anchor points to keep the cut from closing up on you and binding. Carry a couple 6 inch plastic orange wedges for a start and see how you use them.

kcj

 

[XX78]

I know that was a wordy explanation, and it didn't really get you out of the jam you were into. It was some pointers to help prevent pinches in the future. Another fun thing to do when cutting into a trunk like that with some force that will pinch the saw if you cut from top to bottom is this: This will only work with larger trunks but it is helpful. Cut into the log from the top. Hopefully you will be able to get into the wood 2-3 inches deeper than the bar. Keep cutting watching & paying attention to the top of the cut. It you notice the wood starting to pinch, bring the bar back up toward the top of the cut, but do not bring the saw completely out of the wood. Stop the bar 2-3 inches from the top of the cut. This will create remove any wood that has begun to pinch the saw. If you do this a few times, ( it is really fast and easy to do ), the gap at the top of the cut will be completely closed ( pinched together ) but you can finish making the rest of the cut. After you come thru the bottom, all you have to do is kick the pieces and they should fall apart. I really wish I could explain this better or illustrate.


For smaller branches, you can make a series of full throttle, shallow cuts on the side of the branch that will pinch the saw. The saw teeth really have to be moving fast to remove the material that is collapsing from the pinch force. If you do this a few times, you can really remove a ton of the built up spring force. Running the saw slow will increase the chance of pinching.


Making cuts on either side of the trunk is good to do if possible. I like making a quick, shallow relief cut on the pinch side. This removes material and tension as explained above. Then come thru the wood on the opposite side and that gap you made with the saw first will allow for more flexibility. This will make cutting you second cut easier, because the wood will open up and most times break apart before you get the saw completely thru. Don't worry it you top and bottom cuts don't quite match up, it they are within a few inches left to right of each other, that should be fine.

Hopefully I have explained these techniques well enough, if not maybe I can do a few paint shop drawings to help when I get home. I used to get a kick of seeing a homeowner's reaction when I would pull a full of these techniques out with a full throttle 044,066 or 088.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Well, I understand a lot of the very good advice you folks have suggested, but not all of it. Here's what I'll try first:

I'll saw into the trunk from the top far enough for me to hammer two or three wedges into the cut to hold it stable (plastic ok, I hope?) Guess I'll then have to start cutting from the bottom and come up. Hmm. Wouldn't the wedges exert pressure onto my saw and pinch it? I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Gooserider]

Well, I understand a lot of the very good advice you folks have suggested, but not all of it. Here's what I'll try first:

I'll saw into the trunk from the top far enough for me to hammer two or three wedges into the cut to hold it stable (plastic ok, I hope?) Guess I'll then have to start cutting from the bottom and come up. Hmm. Wouldn't the wedges exert pressure onto my saw and pinch it? I'll let you know how it goes.

Not quite... The ideal is to try to cut so that the way the trunk moves is to open the cut. If you can do this, you don't need the wedges at all. If you CAN'T cut in that way, then you need to cut far enough in to start some plastic or wood wedges (BEFORE the saw pinches) and tap them in enough to hold the cut open while you continue cutting in the SAME direction... The idea is to have the wedges hold the cut open so it can't pinch the saw.

Gooserider

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

That makes a lot more sense to me. I'm so excited, boy oh boy! I took my Jonsered 535 Classic (a really dependable, good saw) to this Echo dealer the next town over from me to get the chain sharpened on their machine. I'd passed this place about 10 million times to and from home. They seem extremely business-like and capable. The chain is sure a lot sharper. The guy said I should file the rakers each time I sharpen. Fine by me.

 

[Gooserider]

That makes a lot more sense to me. I'm so excited, boy oh boy! I took my Jonsered 535 Classic (a really dependable, good saw) to this Echo dealer the next town over from me to get the chain sharpened on their machine. I'd passed this place about 10 million times to and from home. They seem extremely business-like and capable. The chain is sure a lot sharper. The guy said I should file the rakers each time I sharpen. Fine by me.

I would somewhat disagree with the shop guy... I certainly spot check my rakers every time I sharpen, but usually find that they only actually need to be taken down every 3-5 times I sharpen.

What I would suggest is that you learn how to hand file (probably get someone to teach you) and touch up the chain after every tank of gas. If you do this, your saw will cut a lot better since happiness is a sharp chain, and you won't need to work as hard at keeping the chain sharp. It will also increase your chain life since you won't need to take as much off each time.

I will only grind a chain if I ground the saw or find a chunk of metal in the tree, and really mess it up. Some people hand file most of the time, but will occasionally get their chain ground in order to bring it back into exact factory spec....

Gooserider

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I have a file in a Stihl file guide that I believe I use properly. At least I line up the 30 degree line with the bar as I file the chain. I usually give the teeth two or three strokes (four if really dull). I've had this saw since about 1994 and it still has the original chain, so I felt some professional sharpening would help.