Need advice for getting heat upstairs

[jeepinman9]

Hello all,
I am new to the forum, I have a 2200 square foot ranch style house including the basement, it is a full unfinished basement. The basement door is in the middle of the house, I have a fan blowing upstairs. I can't get the upstairs above 65 - 68 degrees, while the basement stays around 80 degrees. I am afraid that when it starts getting really cold out that it wont be warm enough. Can I have some advice for getting the heat upstairs. I have the Harman TL300 stove.

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums, Jeep !!

I assume the stove is in the basement? Have you tried redirecting the fan?

 

[hareball]

I would cut some registers into the floors of the main level but like you I would definitely ask here for all options.

 

[Valhalla]

Welcome Jeep!

There is good news, as warm air naturaly rises. The difficult
part is that it is trapped in your basement. There are many
possible solutions. It is important that you do not
disturb the safety integrity of your home.

A properly designed duct(s) may move this warm air to the upper
floor. Just be careful not to take any safety shortcuts, such as
cutting random holes in the floor above the stove.

Plan this very carefully.

 

[fossil]

The plain fact of the matter is that wood burning appliances are space heaters. Sounds like the Harmon's doing a great job at what it's designed and built to do...heat the space it's in. Moving the heat around is a challenge we all face to some degree in one way or another. The easy, flip answer is, "Move the Harmon upstairs to where you live"...but, of course, that may not be feasible, even in the long run. If you can find a way to effectively move cool air from upstairs into the basement, then the warmer basement air will find its way up to replace the air being sent down. Cutting holes in your floor isn't something you want to do on a whim...might be best to get a professional HVAC tech involved in planning something like that out. There's a lot involved there, including the physics of it and the code/safety of it. You refer to the basement as "unfinished"...is it insulated? Is it above or below grade? You might be losing a lot of the stove's heat out through the basement walls, dunno. In any case, it's a tough nut to crack to have a space heater in the basement and expect a comfortable living space upstairs. Some folks here seem to have done it successfully, so chances are others will pop in with their experiences. Rick

 

[hareball]

There is so much to learn here. Many of th old houses i've seen have registers between th floors with fancy metal artistic style grills. My Aunt lived in one that had a wood burning cooking stove,,,It was HUGE!

Now that I think of it it was rather cold upstairs. I guess the only thing pumping through them was voices haha

 

[Flame]

A few years back I had a Timberline in my basement of a previously owned ranch house. I did the big fan in the basement stairway trick for a while. Later I wound up putting a a 6" hole in my floor that was almost directly above the stove. This hole was also inside my closet. From there I put a hole in the closet wall which went in to the hallway. I installed an 8" to 6" reducer stove pipe section (that hung about 10" above my wood stove). The 8" went to 6" pipe up to the hole in my floor. There (in my closet) I had an elbow and another straight 6" that brought it to a register that was mounted on the outside of my closet wall (in the hallway). From there I istalled a duct fan that went inside my 6" pipe just before the elbow. When the wood stove was going good I would hit the switch to the fan and whala! It worked great. But! from what I now know. That is a definite no no for safety and an insurance issue if something were to happen. It's just one of those things you think about. I tell you though I still had to have it in the 90's to be in the 70's upstairs. I couldn't dare sit close to the stove in the basement to enjoy :ahhh:

 

[begreen]

Hello all,
I am new to the forum, I have a 2200 square foot ranch style house including the basement, it is a full unfinished basement. The basement door is in the middle of the house, I have a fan blowing upstairs. I can't get the upstairs above 65 - 68 degrees, while the basement stays around 80 degrees. I am afraid that when it starts getting really cold out that it wont be warm enough. Can I have some advice for getting the heat upstairs. I have the Harman TL300 stove.

A couple things to note, the unfinished wall are sucking up about 25+% of the heat from the stove. Insulating the basement wall would make a large difference. Second, try working with mother nature and place the fan at the top of the steps, on the floor, blowing down into the basement. That will help convective flow. It sounds counterintuitive, but give it a try. You'll find the temps in the basement dropping and upstairs rising by about 3-5 degrees if it works for you.

 

[Martin Strand III]

(SNIP)
Can I have some advice for getting the heat upstairs. I have the Harman TL300 stove.

(SNIP) the unfinished wall are sucking up about 25+% of the heat from the stove. (SNIP) place the fan at the top of the steps, on the floor, blowing down into the basement. (SNIP)

I agree. Be'n there. Done that. The good news: It works!

By doing this, you help Mother Nature get cool air from the first floor downstairs. This displaces the warm air on the ceiling in the basement up the staircase to the main floor. Oh, yea. Leave the door open.

Good job BeGreen!

Aye,
Marty

 

[LLigetfa]

Ja, it's been said here often. Move the cold air down to the stove. If you intend to cut through the floor, install a fusible link damper for fire safety.

 

[ozzy73]

I agree with BeGreen, our basement was uninsulated and it seemed like no matter how much we ran the stove in the basement walls seemed to suck up the heat. We insulated the basement walls to an R24 value and what a difference it makes.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/basement_install.html)

We manage to distribute the heat through from the basement by running the furnace fan when the wood stove in the basement is running.

 

[Battenkiller]

A couple things to note, the unfinished wall are sucking up about 25+% of the heat from the stove. Insulating the basement wall would make a large difference.

I'm a much happier camper since we insulated and finished the basement walls. The first two seasons here were with bare basement walls and the electric was always going on (set at 58ºF!). After putting in 2x4 walls with 3 1/2" of faced fiberglass and 1/2" sheetrock, temps were much more enjoyable. Temps are in the mid to upper 60s even on the coldest days.

A few years later, my golden retriever chewed off the bottom of the hollow-core basement door. Instead of replacing it, I trimmed off the damage and covered it with decorative duct plate. It sends up a nice warm airflow using convection alone. In fact, my efforts to use the shop air cleaner to blow air over the stove area actually made things worse upstairs. It just blew the air around the basement and it didn't rise like it should have.

I think that folks who are serious about air movement should pay a professional to access their situation. My stove guys are supposed to come over for a free consult (I'll buy the materials from them in return) to see if I can't improve the airflow a bit. They were talking about "dip tubes" (?) for air return on the cold end of the house. Anybody ever hear of this term used in this way?

Another benefit of a circulating system would be increased draft. This year I put in a new basement door and threshold. The new door is airtight so now I don't get as much air coming in from outside. This is very obvious when I crack the door open an inch or two. Even on the stillest mornings, you can feel the air rushing in through the opening. Getting cold air to return to the basement from upstairs will eliminate any negative pressure I might get from the stack effect of the house itself.

 

[jeepinman9]

Thanks for all of your quick response's. I am thinking that the best thing to do before cutting holes in my floor will be to install a cold air return at the opposite end of the house as the stove. I will run a duct to the floor. Any advice on what size duct to use, 6" or 8" round?


Thanks
Dan

 

[jeepinman9]

anyone....

 

[Todd]

Thanks for all of your quick response's. I am thinking that the best thing to do before cutting holes in my floor will be to install a cold air return at the opposite end of the house as the stove. I will run a duct to the floor. Any advice on what size duct to use, 6" or 8" round?


Thanks
Dan

The bigger the better and it will also help to install a fan inside.

 

[LLigetfa]

6” or 8” round is not much capacity for a passive vent. A furnace cold return for an average size room would be .5 to 1 sq ft and that is fan forced. For passive I'd look to double that.

 

[begreen]

anyone....

Asked and answered. Did you try a floor or box fan blowing the upstairs cold air down into the basement as a test? How did it work out?

 

[jeepinman9]

anyone....

Asked and answered. Did you try a floor or box fan blowing the upstairs cold air down into the basement as a test? How did it work out?

Yes I did, it made some diference but not as much as I am looking foor, My plan for a cold air return is going to include some type of fan or blower like this one

 

[LLigetfa]

My plan for a cold air return is going to include some type of fan or blower like this one

Do you plan to draw cold air from just one location? Keep in mind that those blowers make a lot of noise on high speed so a larger blower on a lower speed would be quieter if matched with the right speed control.

 

[begreen]

Let us know how it works out. I suspect insulating the basement will deliver more satisfying results, but have been wrong before.

 

[LLigetfa]

I can't get the upstairs above 65 - 68 degrees, while the basement stays around 80 degrees...

While insulating the basement would help reduce wood consumption, it won't do much to move that heat upstairs.

If at all possible, look at using passive cold air returns. Quiet and works in power failures. You could always put cheaper duct booster fans in to give it a little boost.

 

[Mandoo]

I have a 12x14 hole cut in the floor with a small fan on top of the register pulling the heat up, this makes a huge difference and I just experienced it. We are remodeling the basement and the room with the stove. We put in a new ceiling and covered the old hole with drywall. The plan was to leave it covered so the sanding dust would stay down in the basement. It took me 1 night of a cold upstairs living area until I grabbed my drywall saw to open the hole back up.

I'm having a fire damper made for this opening and buying a new vent cover for the basement ceiling along with a nice grill for the upstairs floor. My searches for the fire damper are from Atlantic supply and the manufacture I think is firedamper.com The manufacture is very helpful and will custom make it to your specs. The search for the vent was as simple as 12X14 ID floor vent.

Hope my experience helps. BTW our floor plans are similar.

 

[jeepinman9]

I can't get the upstairs above 65 - 68 degrees, while the basement stays around 80 degrees...

While insulating the basement would help reduce wood consumption, it won't do much to move that heat upstairs.

If at all possible, look at using passive cold air returns. Quiet and works in power failures. You could always put cheaper duct booster fans in to give it a little boost.

This is more of what I was thinking.... In the next few years we plan on finishing the basement so at that time we will insulate it. For now I would like to get the hot 80 degree basement air up to the living space.

 

[begreen]

What were the temps upstairs and in the basement after running a fan blowing down the stairs for a few hours?

 

[jeepinman9]

upstairs went up about 2 degrees, it almost hit 70 which I havent seen yet. the basement didnt seem to change at all