Need advice - medium to small trees blocking new property entrance

[RodM]

Hey All,

New here, great place.

I recently purchased a 2.5 acre property upstate NY and the town just put in the pipe in the ditch so I can gain access to the property. We just beat the window on that thankfully as if the pipe didn't get in, it would have had to wait till late spring according to the local highway department.

Please see attached photos. There are several small to medium sized trees blocking the entrance through the stone wall. I didn't take the diameters but they probably range from 4 to maybe 8 inches give or take. Some of the are quite tall though.

I am not ready to buy a chain saw at the moment but can easily purchase a 24" bow saw and 18" pruning saw. I am guessing an axe would not be the best option.

I am new to this and was curious if you feel my friend and I can take these down with the bow saw or is best to find a local guy who is reasonable to take down the ones that are thicker. I watched some videos on basic tree felling and for medium to small trees it does not seem to complicated. Of course proper safety measures need to be followed.

I would guess there are about 4 to 5 trees that need to come down, the smaller ones that are only 2 or 3" in diameter we can take down without issue. We only plan on taking down what is needed as we want to leave the property as wooded and natural as possible.

I would rather get access to the property while there is still a small window of decent weather to do some basic cleaning and clearing and would prefer not to have to wait till spring. Once the snow and freeze starts, which is soon, the window closes.

Any opinions or thoughts would be appreciated.

Appreciated

 

[gzecc]

Get an insured professional.

 

[Grizzerbear]

Get an insured professional.

+1 on that. Even if you were to cut them out you would still have the stumps to deal with.

 

[MMH]

I agree getting a pro in their is the best answer and as mentioned the stump afterwards etc; however I think you could take the smaller ones if you needed to save money. As long as you don’t have areial hazards to deal with (lines etc) and don’t have to worry about where you drop them (ground hazards public roads etc).

 

[RodM]

Thanks for the replies.

MMH: I agree some of the smaller ones shouldn't pose an issue, no lines to worry about and no dwellings on the property. The small ones can be dropped on our property. These trees are all on the frontage which is right next to the road so I guess for the wider ones yes, possible falling on the public roads would pose a problem.

My biggest concern is the cost as we are only talking about maybe 5 or 6 trees in total and being new to this, it's easy to get ripped off even though people upstate are much more honest that people downstate. I guess getting several quotes would be in order.

With regards to stumps, can't they be taken down close the ground close enough to allow a vehicle to get through the entrance, again, these are not large trees, at least to me. Do short stumps pose an issues if they are low enough?

Anyone have a gander as to what something like this might cost.

There is a silver lining I have yet to explore, there is a gentlemen down the road (a few properties down) who does excavating and similar things.

I might take walk down the road and introduce myself and see if he is willing to help out or see what he would charge for this small job. Local is always better I assume as it keeps the $$ in the community which is always a good thing to do.

We all have to start somewhere right.

 

[baseroom]

Thanks for the replies.

MMH: I agree some of the smaller ones shouldn't pose an issue, no lines to worry about and no dwellings on the property. The small ones can be dropped on our property. These trees are all on the frontage which is right next to the road so I guess for the wider ones yes, possible falling on the public roads would pose a problem.

My biggest concern is the cost as we are only talking about maybe 5 or 6 trees in total and being new to this, it's easy to get ripped off even though people upstate are much more honest that people downstate. I guess getting several quotes would be in order.

With regards to stumps, can't they be taken down close the ground close enough to allow a vehicle to get through the entrance, again, these are not large trees, at least to me. Do short stumps pose an issues if they are low enough?

Anyone have a gander as to what something like this might cost.

There is a silver lining I have yet to explore, there is a gentlemen down the road (a few properties down) who does excavating and similar things.

I might take walk down the road and introduce myself and see if he is willing to help out or see what he would charge for this small job. Local is always better I assume as it keeps the $$ in the community which is always a good thing to do.

We all have to start somewhere right.

Don't know where you are upstate....If you are within an hour of Rochester I can drop those!!

 

[MMH]

RodM yeah understandable. The stumps are up to you really, as long as you snug them up to the ground (cut at ground level etc) usually not an issue as you said. Some people want them out because sometimes they’ll come back over time etc, or the stump can rot out and create a bit of a sink hole. As far as cost I’d get a few quotes etc and I’m sure there’s others on here in your area willing to help such as baseroom. I know companies typically charge by time and complexity of the drops etc so I’d imagine the cost for this shouldn’t be terribly expensive. If you do decide to take them yourself just pay attention to the videos your watching and others advice, face cuts proper holding wood back cuts and your escape routes, proper safety equipment like chaps and helmet etc. it’s a little nerve racking at first but over time and experience you’ll get better and learn what’s good and what to stay away from etc. hope that helps good luck!

 

[GreenMountainBoy]

I'm not a big fan of using a chainsaw if you don't know what you're doing, but I'm not a big fan of constantly overpaying a professional to do something I can do myself. You've got a 2.5 acre property. Sooner or later you're going to have to be at least somewhat competent with a chainsaw. Here's what I'd do in your situation. First, find a reputable dealer and buy yourself a good chainsaw. Get a good brand, Stihl for example. and don't get anything heavier than you are comfortable handling. While you're there, get some good eye and ear protection, a pair of steel-toed boots, and most importantly, get yourself a good pair of special-made chainsaw chaps to cover your legs.

Once you have all of that, take a class on how to properly use and maintain a chainsaw, preferably a hands-on class. Occasionally you can find one of these classes that is free, put on by The Nature Conservancy, your state Forestry Dept, or your local college through their Continuing or Community Education division. If you can't find a free one, the cost is usually nominal. You wouldn't purchase a firearm without having training - same with a chainsaw. Then, once you're comfortable using one, those small trees look perfect as a beginner's project. From that point on, you'll be saving money every time you use it.

 

[RodM]

baseroom: western chenango county (more north than south and closer to cortland county border). From a quick check, you are about 2-1/2 hours away ugh. You are north and west. Let me know if you know anyone closer to me that wants to make some $$. On a tight budget though as the purchase and legal fees took a big chunk of what I set aside for my future residence.

MMH: thanks, I definitely want to learn the ropes on tree felling so over time I can clean the property myself. Most important right now for many reasons, is getting access onto the property. The stumps wouldn't be left there permanently.

GreenMountainBoy: 100% I definitely have to learn the ropes and get the right equipment but that will take time. I'm just an average schnook hahahaha. A class is a great idea as well and would 100% check that out when the time comes. The property is within 15 minutes of 6 large state forests so maybe there are classes in the area. I also agree, I would rather invest in the equipment over time and do the work myself as I enjoy outdoor work of all kinds. Riffle or shotgun is also on the agenda shortly, I more prefer a riffle as I have experience with them when I was younger but probably rusty at this point. There is also a superb shooting range about 20 mins away from the property so that is huge plus.

I am heading back up to the property this weekend to get a better sense of what needs doing and how tall these trees actually are. The photos were taken by my buddy and he didn't really focus on getting good photos as he was more focusing on the drainage pipe and covering.

 

[peakbagger]

When I was a teenager during the first oil embargo my dad bought a woodstove and we cut and split firewood by hand. We did it with a bowsaw, and ax along with ropes and a ratcheting power pull on occasion. We did a couple of cords that way and hauled the wood home in the trunk of a Ford Maverick. I was a Boy Scout and had basic training with woods tools. None of these trees seem to be leaning toward the road and I do not see powerlines so it looks to me like it could be done with hand tools.

If the tree is straight, rig a rope as high up on the trunk as you can go, then set up the power pull out of the range of the tree in the direction you want it to drop, take up the slack and then get the bow saw out. Now cut a wedge on the side of the trunk facing the direction you want it to fall and then apply some slight tension with the power pull. now cut at the back of the tree at slight downward angle from horizonal to heading tot he center of the wedge. The cut should start to open up slightly as you cut. Check the tension on the power pull to keep it snug and keep cutting. Eventually the tree will fall down.

Dont try to cut the trees close to the ground initially leave a stump and then after it afterwards. You can drill the stumps and pour potassium nitrate down the holes and in about a year they can be burned down below the ground.

You will soon learn that if you put any value on your time a chainsaw will speed things up big time.

 

[gzecc]

Submit a request for tree removal on Home advisor. You'll get a couple of licensed tree guys to give you quotes. You can read their customer reviews. Realize with contractors you usually get what you pay for.

 

[RodM]

gzecc: not a bad idea, something to consider.

When I was a teenager during the first oil embargo my dad bought a woodstove and we cut and split firewood by hand. We did it with a bowsaw, and ax along with ropes and a ratcheting power pull on occasion. We did a couple of cords that way and hauled the wood home in the trunk of a Ford Maverick. I was a Boy Scout and had basic training with woods tools. None of these trees seem to be leaning toward the road and I do not see powerlines so it looks to me like it could be done with hand tools.

If the tree is straight, rig a rope as high up on the trunk as you can go, then set up the power pull out of the range of the tree in the direction you want it to drop, take up the slack and then get the bow saw out. Now cut a wedge on the side of the trunk facing the direction you want it to fall and then apply some slight tension with the power pull. now cut at the back of the tree at slight downward angle from horizonal to heading tot he center of the wedge. The cut should start to open up slightly as you cut. Check the tension on the power pull to keep it snug and keep cutting. Eventually the tree will fall down.

Dont try to cut the trees close to the ground initially leave a stump and then after it afterwards. You can drill the stumps and pour potassium nitrate down the holes and in about a year they can be burned down below the ground.

You will soon learn that if you put any value on your time a chainsaw will speed things up big time.

Thanks for the info but as advised, I have no equipment as of yet other than being able to secure some hand tools. A chain saw in 100% in the future along with some classes / training. Do I think we can tackle the job yes, do I think it's wise, probably not. It's always best to admit than one has no experience in something and learn over time to do it themselves. The smalls tuff we can handle as there are some small 1 or 2 inch diameter small trees we can handle but that will not allow a vehicle to get on the property.

My friend and I are avid outdoorsman and campers so outdoor stuff is not issue, this is more of a time crunch to get access to the property before the dead of winter sets in with tons of snow, etc. I would have to wait till late april and or May to get on the property.

Once I get the right gear as we all know, practice and knowledge will lead to good things. There are other trees on the property that will eventually have to come down for 2 small dwellings etc. Leveling will also be needed at some point as the property is not flat by any means, that 100% will be left to professionals.

If you are referring to the early 70's embargo, I was just a little sprout at the time hahaha. Thankfully though compared to today, it was a decent time to grow up in.

In general, most of back then did much more physical things that youngsters do today, a real shame to be honest.

 

[peakbagger]

I do a lot of hiking an trail maintenance and carry a portable hand saw, you would be amazed on the size blowdowns I will get out of the way with just a handsaw. Some are bigger than your trees. Its really just physics.

 

[RockyMtnGriz]

For that main access point, I'd get somebody with a tractor to push them over and level the holes, if I could. Shove them to the side, and you've got access regardless of what the weather does. Then, you can experiment with how to cut them up.
Stumps are going to be a pain for as long as they're there, which is only going to be the next 20-30 years, even if you cut them off level. The ground will compact from driving on it, and the once level stumps will grow higher. Then, eventually they'll rot and become potholes. Partially decomposed stumps can also be tire eaters. It's far easier to bulldoze a stump out of the ground if there's still a tree attached. Just my 2c.

 

[RodM]

peakbagger: I believe it.

RockyMtnGriz: As mentioned early in the thread, there is a guy a few properties down who does excavating and similar things. He has plenty of equipment on his property, however, it would be a first time introduction and he does not know me from a hole in the wall, however, it's a tight community up there so if the introduction goes well, I will definitely speak with him about and see how he feels etc. I would never ask without offering compensation of course. I hear he is a helpful guy but one should never assume anything especially since he is from the area (rural upstate) and I am from downstate. A lot of downstate people are jerks and they know it (and I agree hahaha). Me, I live downstate (don't really belong there but that is where work was at the time) but my soul has always been upstate. I just have the chitty accent unfortunately which gives away where I am from immediately. The accent is like a beacon you can spot a mile away hahaha. Thankfully I can't hear my own accent, I would probably want to shoot myself.

 

[hickoryhoarder]

Thanks for the replies.

MMH: I agree some of the smaller ones shouldn't pose an issue, no lines to worry about and no dwellings on the property. The small ones can be dropped on our property. These trees are all on the frontage which is right next to the road so I guess for the wider ones yes, possible falling on the public roads would pose a problem.

My biggest concern is the cost as we are only talking about maybe 5 or 6 trees in total and being new to this, it's easy to get ripped off even though people upstate are much more honest that people downstate. I guess getting several quotes would be in order.

With regards to stumps, can't they be taken down close the ground close enough to allow a vehicle to get through the entrance, again, these are not large trees, at least to me. Do short stumps pose an issues if they are low enough?

Anyone have a gander as to what something like this might cost.

There is a silver lining I have yet to explore, there is a gentlemen down the road (a few properties down) who does excavating and similar things.

I might take walk down the road and introduce myself and see if he is willing to help out or see what he would charge for this small job. Local is always better I assume as it keeps the $$ in the community which is always a good thing to do.

We all have to start somewhere right.

I had four spruces and a choke cherry taken out for $550. (Some other bids were way higher, but this company was as good as they seemed from the estimator -- I was very satisfied.) I would have done them myself, with a handsaw (I've done substantial stuff by hand), but they were about 25 feet tall and six feet from a busy city street. They ranged in diameter from eight inches to 14 inches.

I believe the top bid was $1800. I don't think that guy was dishonest. He didn't have as much equipment or four guys to help him do it. Probably had one guy. This company came with four guys and a chipper, worked from the road, and drove away two hours later, stumps only an inch tall.

 

[RodM]

[B]hickoryhoarder[/B]: $550 seems reasonable even though I have no frame of reference. I can't imagine someone or a few people taking more than an hour or two to do these few trees. Again, I am heading up there this weekend to get a better picture of what needs to get done. My buddy told me one of those thinner trees was 50FT tall, I don't think that is possible unless it's some type of super tree hahaha. Height is hard to judge for some people.

Once I get up there, the picture will be more clear including what I can and can't tackle taking into account safety and everything else.

I'll probably post up some better photos to see what the group feels.

There is a chance of snow up there as well thursday into friday night but going up Sat early AM. Since I love snow probably more than anyone in the world, I look forward to that as much as seeing the property etc.

 

[Sawset]

The first year with a stove here, I had a one man 5ft cross cut saw, axe, and an electric chainsaw. I quickly found a better way, but the point is, a lot of wood work can be done with those tools, and they don't require a bunch of money or skill. You could have those trees down, cut to length enough to roll out of the way, or load to take home to cut up with the electric.

 

[RodM]

The first year with a stove here, I had a one man 5ft cross cut saw, axe, and an electric chainsaw. I quickly found a better way, but the point is, a lot of wood work can be done with those tools, and they don't require a bunch of money or skill. You could have those trees down, cut to length enough to roll out of the way, or load to take home to cut up with the electric.

I agree that this job could be done with manual tools but I am totally new to this so taking a cautious approach and don't want to take on something until I know and feel it's doable taking into account the minimal knowledge I have.

I have to really see in person if there are any leans and or other issues that could turn what seems to be simple project into a complicated one. The photos my friend provided are not reliable enough so going up this weekend will reveal a lot more information.

 

[RodM]

Update:

So all went pretty well. We met the neighbor 2 properties down who has an excavating business with plenty of equipment. After a nice introduction and some general talk, we asked him how much to clear the entrance completely, remove all the stumps and remove some of the trees further down. The result is in the attached photos

We paid him $400 which we both thought was a fair price as he also cut up the trees into small pieces which we stacked and removed all stumps including the stumps for the trees we cut ourselves.

My friend and I also did a lot of cleaning ourselves, about 6 hours worth and that yielded a huge pile of branches and other cut down stuff. There is still plenty to do but this is a great start.

We both cut down some smaller trees, 3 to 4 inch in diameter with the bow saw to learn some basic techniques which went well with no drama.

So for now, all is well in the world, but the real question is what in the world do we do with these stumps and big root balls? Do we let them dry out and just burn them when we make camp fires and such? One of them is rather large and was only movable with his equipment.

The biggest lesson we learned, for large amounts of clean up work, hand tools are just not efficient so his dad has an extra chain saw he might give us and the former owner of the property (we visited to say hello while upstate) said he would give us some lessons in the spring and he has extensive knowledge. He was unable to help us this weekend and he had some family up or we simply would have paid him to help us with the trees.

 

[gzecc]

Looks good. If you want to use the drive way with a passenger car throughout the winter you may want to get some QP stone put down on the dirt.

 

[RodM]

Looks good. If you want to use the drive way with a passenger car throughout the winter you may want to get some QP stone put down on the dirt.

Thanks. We are not going to be using the property this winter but we wanted to get the entrance open so once spring starts we will be ahead of the game in terms of more cleanup and using the property for recreation, etc. The guy who did the tree and stump removal said when we are ready in spring, he knows plenty of people who get get us gravel / stone for not much $$ to cover the entrance and back a ways. It's a small town, everyone knows each other and looks out for each other. He said it would only be a few hundred bucks but he knows we are on a budget.

There might be one more window to go up in the next two weeks to do more cleaning as the weather is supposed to warm up for a short time before it drops back down and probably stays down.

Snow is due in the area in the next two days so I was happy this got done this weekend.

When we got up there sat AM (very early AM) it was in the 20's, we worked most of the day in the high 30's. Since we were working like crazy, we got pretty warm and actually had to take off the winter jackets. It was nice but I love winter anyway so it was all good

 

[Grizzerbear]

Looks good. Is that a old rock fence or a entrance way.....either way that's neat. As far as the stumps I would let them dry out and when spring comes along and you do more cleanup.....pile more brush on top of them and burn them as it's hard to burn them by themself.

 

[peakbagger]

Looks good, the price was right. One habit to get into is pay cash if at all possible. You are building up a local reputation and cash gives you bonus points. Dont worry about the root balls. Much of the root ball is dirt and give it a couple of seasons and the soil will wash off. The volume will reduce substantially. Yes they will dry out and eventually you can burn whats left. Just be aware its hard on tools used to cut it up as the dirt is always embedded in the roots.

FYI, the first 1 to 2 feet of the soil will never make a good driveway, sure you can dump some crushed stone down but it will slowly sink down in the underlying soil. When you get to the point where you put in driveway, talk to the neighbor and have a foot or two of the soil dug down and then put down some geotextile then have gravel put on top of it. The geotextile allows water to drain through but keeps the gravel from sinking down into the top soil. Using goetextile cuts down on the amount of gravel needed and makes the drivway far more stable in the long run.

A FYI, that woodpile may not be there when you visit again. There are some folks that regard an unattended pile of wood near a road as free picking. Not a lot you can do about it and putting up No trespassing signs leaves a far worse impression than the loss of a bit of firewood.

 

[RodM]

Grizzerbear

The stone wall surrounds the entire property. I attached a few photos to show you. The stone wall is in varying conditions, some parts totally intact, some portions where trees fell partially intact (no section is 100% collapsed). The sections that are not fully intact we will be fixing which is simple as you just restack the stones as there are right there on the ground. I find the stone walls a very endearing and earthy if that makes sense. It is one of the things I love so much about the property. No other property on the road has / had stone walls or they took them down and sold the stones as there is always big demand for them downstate as pavers and such. Some parts are just covered in leaves, that will be easy to clean. We even found the original natural spring well (photo attached) which does have water in it but needs to be cleaned and repaired. If this well is still active, it's a huge bonus for the property but we would need to get the water tested which is easy. From what the owner and excavator told us, this is a natural spring, not a dug well. Not sure what the difference is to be honest.

Oh I forgot, we found the old house foundation and old barn foundation (lower portion of the property), both of which looks like the stone walls, both those areas are going to eventually be cleaned so they are visible but that will have to wait. I forgot to take photos of those.

peakbagger

Thanks. Yes, we are only cash people and we want to support the locals as we will be their neighbors. It takes time but we will eventually fit right in.

Thanks for the info on the root balls and stumps. No issue leaving them to dry up etc. We really can't move most of them anyway so they will have to stay where they are. Maybe in spring we can have the guy move them somewhere out of the way, etc.

The driveway will need improvement. This was just to get it open so next season we are ahead of the game. We will discuss with the neighbor at that time.

With regards to the wood pile, yes there is a chance it will be gone but we only have 4 neighbors on the entire road and hopefully most are respectful of others property. We made sure to leave it inside the stone walls on our property. Now that there is human activity there, maybe others will just steer clear. If it goes, oh well, what can one do, it's only wood. We have tons on the property which has already fallen and just needs to be cut up.

My friend and I are not big on the "POSTED" signs and will not put them up and I agree with you 100%.

The neighbor / excavator told us on occasions he goes on the property to hunt towards the back, we said no problem, no issue. My friend hunts anyway so that was a good thing to have in common.