Need Advice on Larger wood boiler

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pulseing

Member
Feb 13, 2015
25
canada
Looking for a wood boiler to heat my 11000 sq ft shop and 6000 sq ft home, im looking for an indoor unit instead of an outdoor unit but it dont really matter. any one have any recommendations? been looking at the wood gun E500 model, anyone have any experience, recommendation or advice??
Thanks in advance!
 
I have been running an E140 Wood Gun since 2012 heating 7,000 square feet and I like it pretty well, but I think Garn is supposed to be even better than Wood Gun if you can afford one.
Zach
 
I've looked at the garn, they are so bloody expensive, and I'm not sure if it's a gasifier, which is what I definitely want. I will be heating with white birch, corded wood, the basement and shop has pex in the floor already for Infloor and both levels of the house are currently forced air electric, and will have to have a heat exchanger added. I will check out swizer, never heard of them before, seems there are only a few that make something large enuf for what I need. A few companies told me to go with 2 units but I would like to keep everything in one unit for less hassle. I spoke with a salesman from Wood gun, he didn't seem too knowledgeable about the whole setup.
 
I had a Wood Gun. My advice to you is "get a Garn".
 
A garn seems fairly simple, simple Enough to build, tank in tank design with heat exchanger tubes, Would be Wayy cheaper to build than buy? I was staying away from building one because I wanted something that was more efficient than a tank in tank, but if they are more trouble than they are worth there isn't much point
 
Who said the Garn isn't efficient?
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it wasn't efficient, I just was under the assumption that gasifier was the way to go now and I didn't think the garn was a gasifier that's all
 
Have you done a heat load calculation yet? Hopefully jebatty will read this and give you the skinny, he is using both at a facility he is connected with! Happy with both I think, but not certain the Garn could keep up with your heat load needs.
 
Yeah I was considering a pellet for backup, that would be an excellent idea for when I'm not around to maintain wood boiler, I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Seems like all the dealers I talk too say their products are the best and everything else is junk!
 
If you've got a good source of firewood, I'd suggest a Garn 2000, at 88% efficiency. you could get the GARN 3200, but it'll cost you the same as 2 2000's. the Garn 2000 is a bit smaller burn capacity wise than the E-500, but when you add the proper amount of storage for an E-500 you could buy 2 2000's, and then burn one or 2 as necessary. With the low temperature needs for the in-floor, the GARN will be great. if you can work with relatively low temps for the air coils you'll be OK.

Pellets, you have several options in the 200,000 BTU area, I personally have experience with Windhager, and Froelings are also good. Both of them have been built for years and have a long track record, and these are auto feed, auto clean, 90ish percent efficiency, feed them from a bulk bin and only deal with them a few times a year.

Definitely do a heat loss analysis and see what you really need.

Jebatty will hopefully jump in and give his thoughts.

karl
 
Yeah I was considering a pellet for backup, that would be an excellent idea for when I'm not around to maintain wood boiler, I really appreciate everyone's feedback! Seems like all the dealers I talk too say their products are the best and everything else is junk!


That's the nature of business, Hopefully anyone in the business is selling equipment that they have faith in. but overall, happy customers are the best measure of both the equipment manufacturer and contractor.

karl
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it wasn't efficient, I just was under the assumption that gasifier was the way to go now and I didn't think the garn was a gasifier that's all


The Garn is a gassifier, it's not just a tank-in-tank setup - if it's efficiency you're looking for, I don't think you'll find anything much better.
 
Thanks for the compliments asking me to chime in. I have had extensive experience with the Wood Gun E500 and Garn WHS 3200. Really busy this afternoon and evening (time off and Valentine's dinner with my wife). I will respond in detail Saturday morning.
 
How much wood have you burned per year Zach?
Average is around 20 standard cords(4x4x8). Heat and DHW year round, we keep it around 60-63 in the winter. Not very well insulated but it could be worse. It gets better when the snow piles up around the building like it has now.
Zach
 
Check this:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/got-a-little-project-going-this-week.135713/

Would come down to your fuel supply situation, pellets vs. wood. Around here I don't think I would go pellet. What part of the country are you in? There was just a blurb on the news here tonight about a pellet shortage in this part.


Wow thanks for all the replies once again! I'm in Newfoundland, canada and Im pretty sure most of our pellet supply is shipped in, sometimes we can get it for 4 dollars a bag, but there has been pellet shortages here Aswell, I would just have to order enuf for a season in the summer I guess.

My shop is only 4 years old and the home is 2 years old, both are really well insulated and it doesn't get much below -25 c here in the winter.

I contacted the garn dealer, he also suggested two 2000s but I was hoping to avoid having two units, and the 3200 would be nearly $60k by the time it landed here, that's a lot of cheese!
 
and the 3200 would be nearly $60k by the time it landed here, that's a lot of cheese!

Holy crap - I guess.

The exchange rate is a killer up here now - I thought it was bad when I got mine, but now I'm glad I got it when I did. I think it was around $1500 for freight, duty & exchange for me, almost 3 years ago. Ya, I can't see the pellet situation being any better on the rock than it is here. Can't get over how good they have it in Michigan - would really make me question burning wood.

How much would a 2000 be, landed?
 
Looking for a wood boiler to heat my 11000 sq ft shop and 6000 sq ft home .... the basement and shop has pex in the floor already for Infloor and both levels of the house are currently forced air electric, and will have to have a heat exchanger added.
My direct experience with boilers that may fit your heated space needs includes:
1) A Froling FHG-L50 (170,000 btuh with 1600 gallon storage tank) heating a poorly insulated 6000 sq ft residential/visitor center, with two hot water to air plenum heat exchangers, also domestic hot water.
2) A Garn WHS 3200 (tested by me to provide 500,000 btuh continuous output for up to about 18 hours), 3200 gallon integrated storage, supplying hot water heat (with the Wood Gun) mostly through fan-coil units and domestic hot water for a 56000 sq ft residential/educational center.
3) A Wood Gun E500 (tested by me to provide 500,000 btuh continuous output), 4000 gallon external storage, supplying hot water heat (with the Garn) as indicated in (2).
4) The Garn and Wood Gun effectively share their storage capacity, resulting in 7200 gallons of available storage.
5) All boilers require well seasoned wood. Froling smaller splits, 4-6" plus some larger, 28-20" length. Garn and Wood Gun will accept smaller and larger splits, 24" length for ease of handling. Keep in mind that larger splits can take more than one spring-fall period to season.

Alll these boilers meet 100% of space heating and a very high % of domestic hot water heating needs through the coldest winter MN has to offer -- average January -10F to +5F would be the coldest month, with periods during the winter with temperatures plunging much lower, even into the -40'sF. Average wood consumption of about 100 full cords each winter, mixed hardwoods and pine.

For your needs the Froling by itself would work well to heat the house. It is both easy and a charm to operate. It requires storage, and I believe 1000 gallon is a reasonable minimum, the 1600 gallon is excellent to provide hours of heat between needed firings. With proper plumbing it will provide low temp for in-floor pex + higher temp for the water to air plenum heat exchanger.

I thing either the referenced Garn or the Wood Gun within my experience are too large for your needs. Smaller capacity models probably would work well for you. I have no information to suggest that smaller versions would operate any differently than the larger versions. Both are very good boilers. I would not recommend a Wood Gun without storage, although it is advertised to work without storage. Storage allows the Wood Gun to excel in performance by eliminating all idling and restart issues. The Garn has integrated storage.

The Garn is very easy to use, is intended for a batch burn operation, and excels in meeting needs for water temps of 140F and below, although it can meet needs for higher temp water. This is because the Garn can perform a batch burn to heat its integrated storage to a much higher temperature, then be allowed to burn out and reduce coals to ash, and to use the storage to meet heating needs until another batch burn is required. I don't get too concerned as to whether or not the Garn is a "true" gasification boiler because it is very efficient, probably qualifies as gasification, and is about as smoke free as a cordwood boiler can be. Based on quantify of ash/dead coals remaining after a batch burn (which need to be regularly removed), I don't believe the Garn is as efficient as the Wood Gun

The Wood Gun also is very easy to use and with adequate storage performs equally as well as the Garn, and would operate in a similar manner to the Garn, the exception being that the Wood Gun reduces the wood to fine ash as it burns, ash residue is collected in an ash barrel, and the Wood Gun can be operated continuously if needed. An advantage of the Wood Gun (or other gasification boiler with storage) over the Garn, if this is important, is that the Wood Gun can provide very hot water (160-185F) directly from the boiler even if the external storage is not first heated to this temperature, while the Garn generally must first heat its integrated storage to provide the very hot water. This is dependent on the amount of mixing that occurs in the Garn tank during the batch burn.

The amount of storage you have will dictate how long you will be able to provide needed heat between boiler burns. This is mostly about the math in calculating heat demand and stored btu's. Cordwood boilers need to be regularly fueled and if they cannot be tended during absences, a backup heat plan will be needed. In this regard, since it appears that you now have heating capacity installed, I would believe that your existing heating can be your backup and you shouldn't have to add another backup system.

If you want much more detailed test burn information on the Wood Gun E500 and the Garn WHS3200, send me a PM and I will provide you with the links to that information. Best of success on you biomass heating venture.
 
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