Need Help: Advice on Fireplace Insert for Mid Century Modern Home

[Clymer76]

Hello Hearth Forum members,

First of all just want to thank all the members who have contributed to the forum, truly a great resource especially for all the newbies. I recently moved into a mid century modern home in Westchester County, NY the home is located near Croton on Hudson, New York. We have lived in the home for a little more than a year, and would like to reduce our reliance on oil heating.

The home already has an existing wood stove, a RAIS Bando model. Although a very nice unit, it does not have the capability to heat the home comfortably especially when the temperature drops below the 40's. The house itself was built in the 60's, it's a 2500 sq ft. 3 story home with a spiral staircase right through the middle of the home, the master bedroom is on the 3rd floor which is open to the 2nd level which is the main floor (think loft style). The home has single plane windows (in fact have a lot of floor to ceiling windows) not well insulated, heigh ceilings, open floor plan and as you can imagine extremely challenging to heat. Our home also has 3 additional fireplaces in addition to the wood stove. On the main level we have a fireplace located exactly on the opposite side of the wood stove. Our plan is to add a wood insert and use that as the primary heating source. If the weather gets really chilly we would then use the wood stove, and supplement with oil heating if needed.

Although we would love to have a sleek modern fireplace insert to complement the decor and style of the home, we do realize the main reason we are contemplating the purchase of the insert is to heat the home. At this juncture we are leaning towards the Osborn 2400 Wood insert. We are not to keen on the insert not being flush with the fireplace wall, however have read the benefits of having the unit protrude to increase it's heating capabilities.

Please recommend other units that we should look at, especially inserts that are contemporary and can achieve the same heat output and can be flush with the fireplace (I know I'm asking for a lot)

The fireplace is a masonry unit located on the exterior of the house. I have attached some pictures and dimensions for your assistance. Thanks for reading the long post and I look forward to everyones input. Many thanks!

The height of the fireplace opening is approximately 39 inches, sorry did not add that to dimensions

 

[begreen]

That should work but with that tall fireplace, have you thought about putting in a freestanding stove in that fireplace instead of an insert? The Osburn 2400 insert would work, but you might get more heat out of the freestanding 2400 stove with no surround and just a block off plate and save some change.

 

[fossil]

That house is gonna be a bear to heat with wood burning space heaters, no matter how you try to do it. I say dump the Bando and replace it with a real wood stove that will really heat rather than look really nice (these don't have to be mutually exclusive, BTW). Is that flue lined? If not, it needs a full-height stainless steel liner. Then do as my compadre above says and add a hearth mounted free stander to the fireplace on what you call the main floor (complete with full-height stainless steel flue liner and possible hearth extension). You're gonna need a boatload of good seasoned firewood, and you're gonna be toting armloads full of wood up into the house to both stoves every day or so. You're gonna have two flues you need to tend to in terms of keeping them clean (swept) and safe to burn, ashes to clean out and get rid of, and unavoidable mess to clean up. I've no idea how old you are, or how long you intend to be living in this house, but I can tell you it ain't an old people's house, that's for sure. It's very cool, though. If you're OK with all of that, then we're here to help. Rick

 

[Clymer76]

That should work but with that tall fireplace, have you thought about putting in a freestanding stove in that fireplace instead of an insert? The Osburn 2400 insert would work, but you might get more heat out of the freestanding 2400 stove with no surround and just a block off plate and save some change.

Hi Begreen, thanks for responding. I would like a more cleaner look and did not want to see the exposed area of the fireplace pit. Do you think there is a substantial difference in heating from using an insert opposed to a stove w/ no surround? Ideally my wife and I would like something extremely streamlined, for example Osborn matrix insert, PE Neo 2.5, Avalon Large Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre etc. Would these type of flush inserts provide an adequate amount of heat or should we stay w/ the Osborn 2400?

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums !!

With a flush insert, unless you have back up power, you will not have much heat out of a unit like that, should your electricity go out.

 

[Clymer76]

That house is gonna be a bear to heat with wood burning space heaters, no matter how you try to do it. I say dump the Bando and replace it with a real wood stove that will really heat rather than look really nice (these don't have to be mutually exclusive, BTW). Is that flue lined? If not, it needs a full-height stainless steel liner. Then do as my compadre above says and add a hearth mounted free stander to the fireplace on what you call the main floor (complete with full-height stainless steel flue liner and possible hearth extension). You're gonna need a boatload of good seasoned firewood, and you're gonna be toting armloads full of wood up into the house to both stoves every day or so. You're gonna have two flues you need to tend to in terms of keeping them clean (swept) and safe to burn, ashes to clean out and get rid of, and unavoidable mess to clean up. I've no idea how old you are, or how long you intend to be living in this house, but I can tell you it ain't an old people's house, that's for sure. It's very cool, though. If you're OK with all of that, then we're here to help. Rick

Thanks for replying Rick! Yes you are absolutely right about how challenging it is to heat the house, we spent a hefty amount for oil last year. So I will address a few items that you mentioned:

1) The Bando came with the house, and it works perfectly, if I wanted to replace with a similar RAIS stove it's around 5K (not that I would). I would definitely consider discarding it if it wasn't working properly, however I can't justify it at this point. Plus it would be an additional expense I would try to avoid until the Bando was at the end of its lifespan.
- How would I know if the flue is lined for the Bando? Forgive my ignorance but I'm new to all this I have been adjusting a wall mounted thermostat for my HVAC needs all these years prior to moving into this house.
- What's a full height flue liner and what's the difference between that and what's attached to the Bando right now?

"but I can tell you it ain't an old people's house".... you sound like my dad but you are right it's a cool house. I'm nearing my 40's and plan to stay in the house for at least 10 years if things work out .... but living in NY ain't cheap. So far I have been blessed w/good health so I don't mind putting in the work using and maintaining a fireplace/wood stove. I just finished stacking a cord of wood in the backyard this afternoon. I have also been cutting wood from a few trees that we had cut on our property and hopefully will be ready by next year for use.

 

[Clymer76]

Welcome to the forums !!

With a flush insert, unless you have back up power, you will not have much heat out of a unit like that, should your electricity go out.

Thanks for the welcome, definitely a lot of nice people on this forum who have shared their time and knowledge to help people. Power outages don't happen here that often, but they do every now and then. I don't have a generator or back up power, this is was part of the reason I thought the Osborn 2400 was a good compromise in terms of heat output/cost/looks. Ideally if I can find an insert that was a little more contemporary and accomplish our heating needs I would be in favor of that.

 

[fossil]

you sound like my dad

Well, I'm 65, so I could be...but i don't think I am.

 

[Clymer76]

Well, I'm 65, so I could be...but i don't think I am.

I always wondered why I had a yearning to visit Oregon LOL, but seriously I have to help my dad up and down those stairs there no joke

 

[Clymer76]

After looking at the surround option for the Osborn 2400, the largest surround has a height of 32 inches, the height from hearth to top of fireplace opening is 39 inches. This leaves the surround short by 7 inches, without overlapping the top. It seems most of the surrounds are around this height if not shorter, how would I go about dealing with this? Thanks!

 

[Grisu]

I would seriously consider a freestanding stove for that fireplace. Especially with that much of a taper in the sidewalls which will be tricky with many inserts. That may look quite ok:
(broken image removed)

 

[begreen]

After looking at the surround option for the Osborn 2400, the largest surround has a height of 32 inches, the height from hearth to top of fireplace opening is 39 inches. This leaves the surround short by 7 inches, without overlapping the top. It seems most of the surrounds are around this height if not shorter, how would I go about dealing with this? Thanks!

You can get creative. A sheet metal extension painted the same black can be attached to fill the void at the top. Or if you want to let more heat out make it out of perforated or expanded metal.

The Rais Bando is an area heater designed for 1100 sq ft max. I agree with Fossil in thinking about replacing it with a 3 cu ft stove that is designed for twice that capacity and will add a lot more heat. The Napoleon S9 is a pretty clean design worth looking at.

 

[Prichan]

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Hello Hearth Forum members,

First of all just want to thank all the members who have contributed to the forum, truly a great resource especially for all the newbies. I recently moved into a mid century modern home in Westchester County, NY the home is located near Croton on Hudson, New York. We have lived in the home for a little more than a year, and would like to reduce our reliance on oil heating.

The home already has an existing wood stove, a RAIS Bando model. Although a very nice unit, it does not have the capability to heat the home comfortably especially when the temperature drops below the 40's. The house itself was built in the 60's, it's a 2500 sq ft. 3 story home with a spiral staircase right through the middle of the home, the master bedroom is on the 3rd floor which is open to the 2nd level which is the main floor (think loft style). The home has single plane windows (in fact have a lot of floor to ceiling windows) not well insulated, heigh ceilings, open floor plan and as you can imagine extremely challenging to heat. Our home also has 3 additional fireplaces in addition to the wood stove. On the main level we have a fireplace located exactly on the opposite side of the wood stove. Our plan is to add a wood insert and use that as the primary heating source. If the weather gets really chilly we would then use the wood stove, and supplement with oil heating if needed.

Although we would love to have a sleek modern fireplace insert to complement the decor and style of the home, we do realize the main reason we are contemplating the purchase of the insert is to heat the home. At this juncture we are leaning towards the Osborn 2400 Wood insert. We are not to keen on the insert not being flush with the fireplace wall, however have read the benefits of having the unit protrude to increase it's heating capabilities.

Please recommend other units that we should look at, especially inserts that are contemporary and can achieve the same heat output and can be flush with the fireplace (I know I'm asking for a lot)

The fireplace is a masonry unit located on the exterior of the house. I have attached some pictures and dimensions for your assistance. Thanks for reading the long post and I look forward to everyones input. Many thanks!

The height of the fireplace opening is approximately 39 inches, sorry did not add that to dimensions

I could recommend the Lopi Cape Cod Flush Wood Plus insert, it is very flush, zero clearance and heats well. The caveat is: an insert will not heat your house to the degree that you are seeking I think. It will certainly augment your other heat source, but the insert will not provide as much heat as a free-standing wood stove. I sold my Lopi Cape Cod insert this past summer and have installed a free-standing stove, but for sleekness and looks the Cape Cod is really a very nice stove and it will heat. Best of luck.