weatherguy
Minister of Fire
Do what Begreen said and put a couple of skinny splits on top of the coal pile, I sometimes put a couple bio bricks because they burn hot.
Need help circulating air with an enviro boston 1700
- Thread starter Erinu2025
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
That looks like some good heat still. If you need to reload do what others have said. Rake the coals so they spread out evenly too.
lml999
Minister of Fire
Once you get a productive fire with dry wood and good heat (600+) your, that coal pile will reduce to ashes.
You've got so much ash in your firebox that you don't have any room for a productive fire. Clean everything out that isn't big and lumpy. You need room for wood and air flow. More ash means less heat.
You need a way to move the heat down from the cathedral ceiling. Our Enviro 1200 insert is in a great room with cathedral ceilings too, and if I put the ceiling fan on, the temp at sofa level will jump 3 degrees immediately.
Use fans to move cold air at floor level towards the insert, from across the room. Don't try to move warm air, it will move itself.
You've got a great insert...now all you need is good dry wood and some practice.
Note - the Enviros are just a bit finicky with regard to air control. From the start of a new fire with dry wood, it might take me 30 minutes to go from the door barely on the latch, to the door fully closed, to the air control halfway in, 3/4 in and full in. Close it up too fast, and the fire smolders.
(Pro tip - lay down on the floor as you gradually close the air supply and watch the firebox...if those lazy flames floating above the wood start to disappear, it's too early. You will be there a while, make yourself comfy!)
You've got so much ash in your firebox that you don't have any room for a productive fire. Clean everything out that isn't big and lumpy. You need room for wood and air flow. More ash means less heat.
You need a way to move the heat down from the cathedral ceiling. Our Enviro 1200 insert is in a great room with cathedral ceilings too, and if I put the ceiling fan on, the temp at sofa level will jump 3 degrees immediately.
Use fans to move cold air at floor level towards the insert, from across the room. Don't try to move warm air, it will move itself.
You've got a great insert...now all you need is good dry wood and some practice.
Note - the Enviros are just a bit finicky with regard to air control. From the start of a new fire with dry wood, it might take me 30 minutes to go from the door barely on the latch, to the door fully closed, to the air control halfway in, 3/4 in and full in. Close it up too fast, and the fire smolders.
(Pro tip - lay down on the floor as you gradually close the air supply and watch the firebox...if those lazy flames floating above the wood start to disappear, it's too early. You will be there a while, make yourself comfy!)
This is going to vary with the installation. With strong draft one would need to close the air control more quickly.
Agreed. Also depends on wood species, how you built the fire, and moisture content. If I am building a fire with dry pine, I practically can't turn it down fast enough. With so-so oak or hickory, it takes me quite a bit longer.
Smolder
Member
Is there insulation in the ceiling? I see trusses, normally they get a vapor barrier and drywall on the inside and r50+ on the topside... it may be hard to keep it hot until your build is complete.
So I am not sure if I am doing this correctly or not. Never realized it was this hard to burn wood! SMH damn city folk lol (that’s me sheltered NYC city folk now living in the country)
when I load the stove up I can get the temps to in the 400’s but struggle to get it higher than 500. I am only getting 2-3 hour burn times then my stove is chock full of red hot coals and I can’t fit more than 1-2 kindling pieces of wood in. At this point the temp drops down to the 200’s. Then it takes me a few hours to burn down the coals. I have raked them to the front and put a few small pieces of wood kindling on them to burn them down but at the time the temp does jot really raise much. I keep my air open half way most of the time if I lower it I get the same amount of burn time just more coals. Am I doing something wrong? I have read everythingI can on this forum as well every where else on how to use an insert correctly.
when I load the stove up I can get the temps to in the 400’s but struggle to get it higher than 500. I am only getting 2-3 hour burn times then my stove is chock full of red hot coals and I can’t fit more than 1-2 kindling pieces of wood in. At this point the temp drops down to the 200’s. Then it takes me a few hours to burn down the coals. I have raked them to the front and put a few small pieces of wood kindling on them to burn them down but at the time the temp does jot really raise much. I keep my air open half way most of the time if I lower it I get the same amount of burn time just more coals. Am I doing something wrong? I have read everythingI can on this forum as well every where else on how to use an insert correctly.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
How and where are you measuring temperatures? On my Kodiak, the convective top is cooler than the actual stove top would be, especially if I’m running the blower or have a pan of water on it. I can have 200* degree temperatures on that surface but well over 400 coming from the stovetop. If you specify where you’re measuring your temperatures, it will help us understand.
You have mentioned excessive coaling a number of times. That tends to be a symptom of wood with too much moisture. You mentioned getting better wood, but it’s still possible that it’s not good enough. Have you tried some non- treated lumber cut offs or compressed wood blocks for comparison?
It’s also significant that you aren’t able to close your air control more completely. Damp wood needs more primary air, but more primary air reduces your secondary burn (burning particulates in the smoke) and sends more fuel and heat up your chimney. The secondary burn is what really makes the heat, and I need to have my air control pretty much fully closed to take the best advantage of it.
When you’re discussing burn time, are you referring only to active flames engulfing the wood? During that time, what kind of flames do you see in the air space at the top of the box? When my wood is burning well, it’s almost as if all the flames are dancing above the wood with far less surrounding the logs.
It does take time to learn how to burn the stove most effectively, and you’ve found the right forum to do it. Keep trying and keep asking questions about your experiences.
You have mentioned excessive coaling a number of times. That tends to be a symptom of wood with too much moisture. You mentioned getting better wood, but it’s still possible that it’s not good enough. Have you tried some non- treated lumber cut offs or compressed wood blocks for comparison?
It’s also significant that you aren’t able to close your air control more completely. Damp wood needs more primary air, but more primary air reduces your secondary burn (burning particulates in the smoke) and sends more fuel and heat up your chimney. The secondary burn is what really makes the heat, and I need to have my air control pretty much fully closed to take the best advantage of it.
When you’re discussing burn time, are you referring only to active flames engulfing the wood? During that time, what kind of flames do you see in the air space at the top of the box? When my wood is burning well, it’s almost as if all the flames are dancing above the wood with far less surrounding the logs.
It does take time to learn how to burn the stove most effectively, and you’ve found the right forum to do it. Keep trying and keep asking questions about your experiences.
I have a magnetic thermometer I placed on the top of the door this is where I read to place it in many posts. I also purchased a digital heat thermometer and test it in several places. I do have the blower on and a pan of water on the top. This wood that I am burning now is from a friends father and it has been seasoned since last July so about a year and a half. We did also try seasoned lumber packs from Lowe’s. The only wood blocks I can find are the ones that say dura flame they are wrapped in a foil the stores are now selling summer stuff so it’s hard to get heat items at this time. I het good flames and I can close the air control all the way down and the flame just rolls along the top but it seems like it makes more coals this way. Then when the temp starts to drop down I do oot really have much space to load more wood maybe only a piece of two of thin sliced wood.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
That sounds like you are getting some secondaries then, but the huge pile of coals is still concerning. The wood should be burning down to more ash than coals.
It could be that your heat loss is just too great right now. I know the house is a work in progress, but could you describe the current insulation for the roof/ceiling? It may be that you’re producing plenty of heat and losing it all too fast.
It could be that your heat loss is just too great right now. I know the house is a work in progress, but could you describe the current insulation for the roof/ceiling? It may be that you’re producing plenty of heat and losing it all too fast.
The ceiling roof level is two layers of r-19 which is more than is required for building code. The insulation is exposed still we are planning to put bead board along the insulation line and keep the ceiling vaulted showing the beams. All of our walls have roxul insulation in them for extra insulation and sound reduction. The flor level of my house is raised off the ground so it has air flow under it but there is foam board under there then blown insulation then tyvex to seal it. I’m not sure if it’s just too large of a space maybe it’s a giant great room set up so all the house is wide open except for the two bedrooms and bathrooms those are the inly doorways.
I will try and order eco blocks I believe those are wood blocks to burn I can get them from amazon and try that.
we did also also order a moisture meter and we just checked the wood again the first wood we had was coming up high on the meter. The wood we are burning now comes up low under 6-8%
I attached a pic of the amount of coals we get. They will stay red like that and if I move them around flame up a little. They will just stay red like this while the temp continues to drop and eventually the blower on the stove will shut itself off.
Attachments
Mech e
Feeling the Heat
6-8% is a false reading. Make sure you let the wood stay indoors for 24hrs. and then test a freshly split face.
This was tested on wood inside. So I have to split the wood in half to test the moisture in it?
Mech e
Feeling the Heat
Yes, wood dries from the outside in. You need to split it to get an accurate value.
Wow this is great! Thanks for the tips. I have never been able to get my temp up to 600 or even close to that! Most of the time 400’s. We fully emptied the other day to start fresh so zero ash or coals. Now when I load it and let it burn down I just get way too many coals. The coals are filled to to the firebrick line inside the insert. This wood we are burning is nice and seasoned we purchased it from a friends father who had it seasoning since last July so about a year a half. It burns nice I think but I just can’t seem to get the temp to what everyone says I need it at. I’m going to keep trying.
Yes there is insulation in the ceiling 2 layers of it. More than we need for code. We were planning to put bead board over the insulation and leave the trusses exposed.
Yes. Be sure you test splits that are up to room temp. Re-split and test the fresh exposed surface.
[/QUOTE]
Depending on wood type it may still be wet. Common for hardwoods to need a couple years if not three depending on location to get under 20% moisture content.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
Yes, those are good. Just don’t try to light them in a cold stove; put them on a good bed of coals (which you seem to have in abundance). One or two on top of your pile should help burn things down. Then when you’re ready for a full reload, you can use a few more mixed in with your driest wood to see if it helps get more heat.
Do you have an ash rake for moving coals? They’re great tools.
I just ordered an ash rake should be here tomorrow. I have been using my stove shovel. I did try the bricks yesterday and last night. I still just can’t seem to get my temp up passed 400. I am finding way less coals with using the bricks and what coals are there are easier to pull to the front and burn down for a reload. It was cold out last night 21 and no matter what I did I could not get the temp on the stove over 400 and the temp in my house was in the miss 50’s. I’m going to keep at it to try and learn more. Last night I put a big eco brick and a small one on each side then loaded my split wood on top. I was expecting to get very hot as others have said but it did not.
How far was the air control closed? Has the baffle been checked to confirm that it is properly in place?
Have you checked the air temperature up near the ceiling peak?
I have checked all that the air control was closed all the way then varying from 25% closed to full open to try and get it to burn more for more heat. The fireplace was just installed last Saturday and when I emptied all the coal and ash I checked the baffles and they are sitting in the place they are supposed to. There are 4 tubes and they have a cut out that they fit into. I have checked the heat up at the peak of the vaulted ceiling and it was low as well as I have an air circulation fan to move the heat from ceiling area to try and get as much as possible back down into the living area. I’m not sure what else I am doing wrong. I tried the eco blocks hopping it would make it better but I guess not.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
It seems odd that you can’t get higher temperatures with a full box of dry wood. What is your chimney setup? Do you have an insulated liner from stove to cap? How tall is the chimney?
Even without the stove getting to six hundred degrees, I’m surprised that there isn’t heat peaking at your ceiling. It sounds like there is decent insulation, but it does make me wonder about air infiltration. Something just doesn’t seem right, but, of course, you don’t need me to tell you that. It’s why you’re here asking questions.
Even without the stove getting to six hundred degrees, I’m surprised that there isn’t heat peaking at your ceiling. It sounds like there is decent insulation, but it does make me wonder about air infiltration. Something just doesn’t seem right, but, of course, you don’t need me to tell you that. It’s why you’re here asking questions.
Similar threads
