Need Help fixing Englander 25PDVC

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McMatt

New Member
Hearth Supporter
Oct 9, 2007
19
I could use a little help from anyone familiar with this model stove.

First off, last year in March I was watching a stock car race by the stove when the flame started to fail. Upon closer inspection I noted that the auger wasn't turning and in fact had melted halfway back into its shaft. "Foresookth" sayeth I or words to that effect and I yanked the plug. Since it was late in the season and I needed to spend all my hours in the garage to finish restoring the Trans Am I went back to fossil fuel with plans to fix the stove this summer. Shamefully late in the game I am getting to it.

What I did determine over the summer is the lower auger motor is bad. Foresookth, sayeth, I or word to that effect. Knowing that mechanical stuff doesn't fix itself, I'm an old car guy, I ordered up the auger motor, the retaining collar, the bearing, the bearing gasket and the lower auger. When in doubt with a mechanical device throw money at it.

The Englander site has some pretty good articles on repairing these things (considering they fail in less than two years perhaps that is wise) so I print out the article, grab a hold of the toolbox and prepare to join battle.

Step number one: Loosen the set screw that that holds the auger and auger motor. Yeah, OK, 5/16th ratchet in hand I attempt to do so. One minor problem. There's no set screw where the color picture says it should be. I am an old car guy. I am used to the manual being wrong and having to search around. After scratching my puzzler until my puzzler was sore I still couldn't find the dang set screw. Introducing a five cell maglight and a Coors Light to the problem yielded no better results. So, I decide, there's teh issue, the set screw fell out and thus the auger won't turn. But to confirm my theory I turn to the upper motor to find it's set screw. There's none there either. And that auger works fine. (Englander uses common motors and augers top and bottom.)

Well obviously I can't get to step two without completing step one. So does anyone know where the @##$)$@# set screw is actually mounted on this dang thing? The motor is rectangular and I will call the left top corner, A, the right top B, the left bottom C and the right bottom D. (Looking at the stove from behind)

Secondly, am I to expect to have to throw two hundred bucks worth of parts at this cursed thing every two seasons or was this a freak meltdown? I burn wood pellets to offset the environmental footprint of my driving old cars with huge engines and motorcycles in various startes of tune, but if owning a pelllet stove means spending more time wrenching on it than the cars I'll just club baby seals and burn the fat in lanterns for heat.
 
I believe the set screw is a very small hex/allen wrench stud. You can barely see it. It cinches down on the flat of the shaft.
 
I'll tell you what...... I'll let the guy that builds them answer the question....
Mike where are ya?
you could PM him here "stoveguy2esw"
 
OK, nowhere near the photo indicated but I believe I have found it and removed it. At this point the whole motor auger assembley ought to slip out the back of the unit as per instructions. Nope. What else needs to be loosened. (over and above the obvious two wire terminals.)

I simply can not believe that both motors in my unit as free floating. Nothing at all hold them to the unit. You can grab a hold of them and twist em 30 degrees.
 
Mcmatt said:
I simply can not believe that both motors in my unit as free floating. Nothing at all hold them to the unit. You can grab a hold of them and twist em 30 degrees.
I believe they are free floating as many are..
Edit******
Yeah it looks like they just rest on a shelf of some sort...
Are you saying that the auger flights melted off the auger shaft? :grrr:
 
[quote author="Mcmatt" date="1191990964"]OK, nowhere near the photo indicated but I believe I have found it and removed it. At this point the whole motor auger assembley ought to slip out the back of the unit as per instructions. Nope. What else needs to be loosened. (over and above the obvious two wire terminals.) quote]


Do you have pellets in the auger? You may have to turn the auger backwards to extract it, (like a corkscrew in a cork)
 
Yes, the shaft actually melted. There was molten aluminum (I assume given the light weight of the metal) drooling into the fire pot like lava. No shelves. This motor just sort of sit there at the end of the auger like a tightrope walker suspended by two wires with standard slip on electrical connectors. I am glad to see the designers of the Yugo have found gainful employment building pellet stoves.
 
That auger shaft is cast iron. Somebody has dropped a piece of aluminum, or some other soft metal, into the hopper of that stove and the auger did its job and delivered it to the fire pot. And once it cooled it welded the auger shaft to the tube.

Anybody there lose a pair of glasses last winter?
 
Nope, no missing glasses or improperly disposed of beer cans. You are correct though. I just checked the rest of the auger and it is ferrous (or however you spell that) It's pretty scary that a cast iron auger melted like that at temperatures that had to rival what the narrator in Sprinsteen's "Youngstown" saw:

Well my daddy worked the furnaces
Kept 'em hotter than hell
I come home from 'Nam worked my way to scarfer
A job that'd suit the devil as well
Taconite coke and limestone
Fed my children and make my pay
Them smokestacks reachin' like the arms of God
Into a beautiful sky of soot and clay
 
What pellets were you burning when this happend?

I had a chunk of the pellet making machine get into one of the bags. I dumped it into the stove....

When I got home the stove was off and I went to feed it pellets and the big chunk of aluminum was in the hopper.

Lucky the P-68 stove has a gate that shuts so it cant back burn up into the hopper....it prevented the stove from ingesting the aluminum and causing problems.

Oh I have pictures BTW.
 
Mcmatt said:
Nope, no missing glasses or improperly disposed of beer cans. You are correct though. I just checked the rest of the auger and it is ferrous (or however you spell that) It's pretty scary that a cast iron auger melted like that...

If that auger reached the 2,200 degrees it would take to melt it the carbon steel tube it is in would have melted a couple of hundred degrees sooner and all hell would have broken loose in that stove with the auger turning. Not to mention what would have been happening to that motor attached to the shaft at that temp.

In aviation we had a term for what happened here: For Object Destruction (FOD). Ya got something in the hopper wasn't a pellet. At least it wasn't a wood pellet.
 
have you contacted us yet? i need to know what's happening. please call me or pm me your phone number so i can help you with this.phone number to reach my office is 1-800-245-6489 if you cant call in during that time please PM me so i can call you after hours when its better suiting for you. if i dont know the specifics i dont know what happened, if the auger degraded the way you say it did , i want it, i will send you a new assembly. i need to chat with you as well though as i am going to need an address as well as some other info.
 
Hope you'll keep us posted on "the rest of the story" Mike - This is an amazing sounding failure, and I'm going to be curious to hear what you find it to be. It does seem unique though, at least I don't recall any other reports of melting Englander's.

Mcmatt, I enjoyed your posting style, appreciate the dry humor that says you aren't happy about the situation, but aren't trying to be ugly about it. Welcome to the forums and I hope you and Mike are able to work things out - keep us posted.

Gooserider
 
How was the situation handled? With stunning speed and Englander wildly exceeded my expectations of customer service though I run an auto parts store and cutstomer service is priority one.

First let me say I found this site the other night just looking for a forum devoted to pellet stoves where somebody might be able to answer a question on dissasembly. I had no idea Mike of Englander stoves posted here and I wasn't trying to get warranty work done on my stove. I figured the warranty was up and it was my job to fix the stove. As soon as he saw my messages here Mike emailed me and PMed me asking me to call him immeadiately. As I am traveling I emailed him back last night. He asked for a better description of what had happened and I told him about the day the stove died. Today he talked to his boss and the head of R and D at Englander Stoves. Now here's the part that's going to make you think this is a hoax. (I assure you it is not). Mike emailed me back to say that they have decided to replace my stove free of charge and that includes shipping. They want my old stove back so the Englander R and D department can disassemble it and see what happened. As most of you know shipping stoves isn't cheap. In addition though my $200 parts order has already shipped (and I was pretty impressed it shipped that quickly to be frank) they have already issued a credit to my card telling me to ship those items back with the stove strictly on a trust basis.

Now the other night my Irish was up a bit and I said some not so kind things about these folks. There was a lot going on that day. My garage got robbed and I lost some stuff I valued. Then I couldn't get the auger out of the stove and as anyone who twists wrenches knows furstation can get the better of even an old dog. You try telling yourself it's just a mechanical unit and a little further study and contemplation, a few experimental moves, and a flash of insight and the job will be done. Then you toss your wrenches and start cursing like a drunken steveadore. The course of action Englander decided upon is so far above and beyond anything I envisioned here's what I gather;

They build a quality product. They don't have many that fail in two seasons or they'd go broke shipping free stoves. They are genuinely surprised and concerned that my stove melted down. They want to find out why. Remember at this juncture until they analyze the stove it could still turn out the failure was caused my operator error. In retrospect the friend who recommended Englander to me has had his unit six seasons with zero problems. Based on my experience before the meltdown I had recommended the same stove to friends, family members and internet acquaintances and nobody has had a problem with them. Based on my experiences this week I can continue to recommend Englander as a company that does something all too rare in the world of retail, they build a product and stand solidly behind it. Just saying thanks to Mike, his boss and the head of R and D doesn't seem enough. Thanks also to those of you who posted advice to give me a hand.
 
im pretty interested in seeing what the deal was with this one myself, this kind of thing is pretty wild. as for the stove swap out , i'll get in touch with you tomorrow (if you have gotten back in town) if not definately monday to get the shipping arrangements in order. as for the parts you ordered, we were a victim of our own efficiency i guess, i tried to catch it before the order was processed but it was a done deal before i could get it stopped. we'll fix that too.
 
Now why couldn't yall build a damn 30 insert, I woulda bought that with the knowledge of your company backing its products like it does.
COREY............ get on it man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm impressed. The fact that Englander remains keenly competitive and yet customer centered is awesome. The fact that this is an American industry makes me smile. Way to go folks.
 
If Ford, GM, and Chrysler backed thier products the way Englander does thier stoves the only Honda in your neighborhood would be the fat kid's minibike he uses to chase down the Ice Cream truck in July.
 
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