Need Help with Renovation and Wood Burning Insert

[Copper44]

Hello, I have been reading up on this site for the past few months. Now that I have joined was hoping to look for a little help. I am in the middle of a full renovation of my house. Everything is basically gutted, including the old brick off the fireplace. We are switching it to a veneer all the way to the ceiling. I have attached some pictures and I am trying to figure out if it is big enough to put a insert in. To me it seems shallow(even when the full brick was on it). I will put up measurements soon as I get back over there, but for now here is some pictures. Thanks for any help!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. That's a big project. We'll need the dimensions to make suggestions. Not sure if an insert will fit, but it does look tall enough that a freestanding stove might work out on the hearth in front of the fireplace. You might get more heat that way. Or you might build out the front of the fireplace with brick or stone to add depth for an insert.

 

[Copper44]

I forgot I should add that like other threads I have read on here, that I too have a "boss" that has a heavily weighted input. The stove idea is what I would have done but I got vetoed on that one.

 

[bsruther]

Get a freestanding stove and tell her it's an insert.

 

[Copper44]

Front height is 33 1/2". Front width is 35", back width is 21", and depth is 17" with no brick attached to the face.

 

[jeepnerd]

They're are some really nice looking free standing stoves out there. I really like they Jotul, which is what I'm having installed in a couple weeks. You'll have a lot more options if you can talk the boss into it. Maybe you could go to a show room to try to sway her, or do a search on line for different pictures. You tube has as lot of videos too.

 

[begreen]

Front height is 33 1/2". Front width is 35", back width is 21", and depth is 17" with no brick attached to the face.

Will you be building out the front with stone, brick, or tile or anything that will increase the depth of the fireplace? What kind of look is she expecting? Will this be primarily for a big fire view or good heating too? Right now I'm thinking a Hearthstone Clydesdale.

 

[Copper44]

Yea, we have done the show room thing and I have tried everything I can think of to show her how it can look "good". Tried explaining the fact that the real factor in getting heat is in the protrusion of the insert. Also there is actually a matching firebox offset a foot on the other side of this one. But for the sake of things I know I can do a stove, I am trying to figure out what my best options are for a insert. How much does it help that the chimney is in the center of the house?
Also yes we are adding stone again, before we ripped it off the depth 21 1/2".

 

[begreen]

Have you shown her a nice Clydesdale insert installation picture or two? It's a good looker.

 

[Grisu]

How much does it help that the chimney is in the center of the house?

A lot. With a block-off plate and some Roxul for insulation on top of it you will not lose more heat with an insert than with a stove. Any heat retained in your fireplace cavity will warm up the bricks and slowly be released into the room. The effect will be similar to a masonry heater with the stone radiating the heat still hours after the fire has been out. That's my experience with my interior fireplace. On not so cold days I don't need to light a fire until noon because the bricks are still releasing the stored heat from the overnight burn. One caveat is that after a cold startup it will take longer for an insert to get the heat out as the masonry will act as a big heat sink. But if you burn 24/7 you will hardly notice the difference to a stove.

How much of an area do you want to heat? Any particular look your wife prefers? You may also benefit from installing a ceiling fan looking at your pics (and assuming you will keep the cathedral ceiling).

Did you already get some dry wood?

 

[Copper44]

Guys thanks for all the help already, it's actually starting to sway her a bit. I think she is like most other wives that don't go for the standalone, likes a large viewing area and such. She is ok with it coming outside the firebox, which otherwise I probably wouldn't even do it.

There is a ceiling fan being installed and yes the ceiling is staying. It is not terribly high 12' roughly.

Far as heating area, as much as I can. The house is 2300sq ft. With only high ceilings in the living room (24'x 27'6"). It is fairly open to the kitchen and dining area.

Far as dry wood not nearly enough to be used exclusively this year, it is just a good time to do it with everything opened up. However I have 40 acres at my house which is made up of tons of standing dead ash. I am hoping the house stuff is finished up by Christmas and I can get to taking care of a lot of those. My woods is also made up of mostly walnut, honey and black locust, mulberry, and Osage orange.
Oh and I got a few trailer loads of I believe sugar maple from a neighbor that had his tree cut down by the power company.

Here's a picture of one of the loads.

 

[Copper44]

Ttt

 

[lml999]

Get a freestanding stove and tell her it's an insert.

+1

Install it way back in the fireplace, and then every two weeks, pull it out an inch or so. You might get it into the middle of the room before she notices.

 

[bsruther]

+1

Install it way back in the fireplace, and then every two weeks, pull it out an inch or so. You might get it into the middle of the room before she notices.

Take out all of the firebricks, remove the smoke shelf and square it all up. Cover the inside with stone and set the stove back in there, it'll be inserted.
Knocking out those top bricks and raising the lintel would give it a nice alcove effect too.

 

[Copper44]

Yea I have tried that method as well. Went to another showroom today, I don't think it actually helped my case at all. [emoji30]

 

[begreen]

I know you have your hands full but you are going to need cords of that wood split, stacked and drying a couple years in advance. The difference between burning semi-seasoned wood and good dry wood is quite noticeable and desirable.

 

[Copper44]

Any idea how long standing dead ash takes? I have a few hundred dead ash at my property.

 

[Grisu]

Any idea how long standing dead ash takes? I have a few hundred dead ash at my property.

Ash has already a low moisture content when green and often dries sufficiently over one summer when split and stacked in a sunny and windy location. Dead trees can vary quite a bit in their moisture content. The top is often drier than the lower part of the trunk. When the bark is off that helps, too. I would keep a moisture meter handy when splitting to check a split from each round you are doing and then sort them accordingly.

 

[begreen]

Ash is excellent firewood and dries quickly. Standing dead is not a guarantee of dryness, but it's a good start. Rounds from the trunk bottom may still retain moisture. Regularly test an occasional split for moisture on the fresh face of the wood as you are splitting. If 20% or lower you are good to go. 20-23% will dry pretty quickly if you bring it inside.

 

[Copper44]

Ash is excellent firewood and dries quickly. Standing dead is not a guarantee of dryness, but it's a good start. Rounds from the trunk bottom may still retain moisture. Regularly test an occasional split for moisture on the fresh face of the wood as you are splitting. If 20% or lower you are good to go. 20-23% will dry pretty quickly if you bring it inside.

Ok yea it makes sense that the trunk area would suck/retain more moisture. I have a few trees CSS and then I can just separate the tops and trunk from future trees and keep my moisture meter handy. I actually don't think there are any live Ash trees around me anymore, even the trees that are 2-3" in diameter have got hit by the ash borer.

 

[begreen]

You have a primo wood site. As nice as ash is for firewood, you will be amazed at the long intense heat put out by locust and osage orange. Mulberry and sugar maple aren't too shabby either.

 

[Copper44]

You have a primo wood site. As nice as ash is for firewood, you will be amazed at the long intense heat put out by locust and osage orange. Mulberry and sugar maple aren't too shabby either.

Yea I checked out the BTU calculator a few months back and was pleasantly surprised to see I have quite a few up species with high output. I will say that locust can really put up a fight with the chainsaw!

 

[Copper44]

Well I am getting closer to talking her into a wood stove!!
Now I need to know what other people have found to be most aesthetically pleasing to a "wife" that will heat 2500 sq feet.

 

[Grisu]

Since you are talking about a large rear-vented stove those would be the options:

Jotul F600 or F55
Quadrafire Isle Royale
Hearthstone Manchester
Woodstock Progress Hybrid (or Ideal Steel but not sure if your wife approves of that one). That's a catalytic stove for a more controllable heat output.

Make sure to check out all the color options for those stoves.

 

[bsruther]

My wife loves the way our stove looks mounted in the fireplace, but then, she had to look at an insert in there for 7 years.