Need input before I make a mistake!

[learnin to burn]

As most of you have probably already read from my other posts I've been considering a new Cat Stove ( BK Princes or King, Buck 91) The common theme that keeps popping up is the flue temp causing issues.

I know with my current stove my temps usually run between 300 - 400 degrees 18" up the stove pipe with no draft issues. What Kind of average temps could I expect to to see on the pipe from a cat stove while the cat is engaged and working?

 

[Jags]

The common theme that keeps popping up is the flue temp causing issues.

What Kind of average temps could I expect to to see on the pipe from a cat stove while the cat is engaged and working?

About the same assuming that you are reading surface temps of your flue.

What flue temp issues? I am not familiar with a cat stove in proper working order having any flue temp problems.

 

[Slow1]

Lower in general -

I've been told that with my Fireview I should expect to see 250 range as a cruising flue temp once cat is engaged etc.

Now the question is, what sort of issues do you expect this to cause? It should still be hot enough to maintain a decent draft if your chimney has acceptable insulation. Since these new cat stoves burn cleaner (and you are somewhat forced to burn better wood!) the need for hotter temps to blow creosote causing smoke out the stack quickly is reduced to a large degree. Less unburned 'gunk' and water in the exhaust = less to condense.

Granted I imagine we do run the risk of water condensing in the stack, but if internal temp is 2x the surface then at 250f 18" from stove, we still have to cool by more than 1/2 before serious condensation of water occurs. Now someone (was it N of 60?) did report his BK stack would get ice on the top at times during the winter... I somehow doubt you in PA or I in MA need to worry that much about getting that much cooling...

 

[Jags]

(was it N of 60?) did report his BK stack would get ice on the top at times during the winter...

Where N of 60 is - you could get ice on top of a lit road flare. :lol:

 

[learnin to burn]

My setup is the stove is in the basement with the stove pipe exiting the basement wall to an outside chimney with 7x7 clay liner. BK thinks I'll have an issue with draft during the burning process because there units are so efficient. Buck on the other hand seems to think I would have a draft issue only at start up.

With my currant setup I didn't have any issues with draft. Although I was proactive starting a cold stove by cracking a window for the first minute or two but once the paper was lit I closed the window and had no back puffing.

 

[learnin to burn]

(was it N of 60?) did report his BK stack would get ice on the top at times during the winter...

Where N of 60 is - you could get ice on top of a lit road flare. :lol:

Now that's funny :lol:

 

[Slow1]

(was it N of 60?) did report his BK stack would get ice on the top at times during the winter...

Where N of 60 is - you could get ice on top of a lit road flare. :lol:

So true...

But would it still draft and burn well?

 

[Wet1]

Cat stoves do run a little cooler in the flue. This is one reason I'm not a huge fan of Buck and BK requiring an 8" flue, the 8" tends to run significantly cooler than the 6". Many people are using 6" on the big cat stoves w/o any issues, despite the fact that the manufacturers don't recommend it. If the stove is going to spend the majority of its time cruising at lower outputs (like in my case), I think the stove will generally perform better with the 6". I would recommend using double wall and 45's in place of a single 90 if at all possible. I guess you could always go to 6" and/or insulate the chimney if you had problems, but I suspect you wont have a problem with your system as it sits since you never had an issue with your current non-cat stove.

 

[learnin to burn]

Well my wife and I took the trip to NJ (70 miles round trip) to check out the Buck 91 today. First thing I noticed was the fire brick was just about level with the door maybe an 1/8th" below and half inch from the door. The claimed 22" wood length if loaded N/S would put the splits right against the glass door. The back of the fire box is 19" wide while the front is 24" wide with just under 10" height. Just at seeing the shallow depth I was thinking of passing. As I looked further I noticed there wasn't a flue collar, the 8" pipe just sits down into the stove 2-3 inches. I asked how you secured the pipe to the stove and was told there are brackets that attach to the pipe with screws but then you have to cement the brackets to the stove top. Now I'm really not digging this stove even though from the front it doesn't look bad. I looked at the sides to see if there was a heat shield or not and found a thin sheet of metal (It was more of a skin than anything maybe 24 gauge) screwed to the sides with what appeared to be sheet rock screws. (Yes I said sheet rock) I told the sales man we needed a few minutes to talk which he readily respected.

My wife says "I don't understand all the talk about burn times and draft and flue pipe but" then she leans in a little closer and says "let's get the Princes" I say we'll talk more on the way home.

:coolsmile:

 

[North of 60]

(was it N of 60?) did report his BK stack would get ice on the top at times during the winter...

Where N of 60 is - you could get ice on top of a lit road flare. :lol:

Yes it was I. -35c or -30f and colder is when it starts to form. Ice is still transparent = a clean burn. @ times when I notice this I will run with the by-pass open for 10 minutes or so to remove it.
And Jags you are too funny. Thanks for the chuckle. I think. :blank: :lol:
N of 60

 

[Bigg_Redd]

As most of you have probably already read from my other posts I've been considering a new Cat Stove ( BK Princes or King, Buck 91) The common theme that keeps popping up is the flue temp causing issues.

I know with my current stove my temps usually run between 300 - 400 degrees 18" up the stove pipe with no draft issues. What Kind of average temps could I expect to to see on the pipe from a cat stove while the cat is engaged and working?

Flue temps are much cooler in a properly working cat stove. I don't have a # for it, but much cooler.

 

[Wet1]

Well my wife and I took the trip to NJ (70 miles round trip) to check out the Buck 91 today. First thing I noticed was the fire brick was just about level with the door maybe an 1/8th" below and half inch from the door. The claimed 22" wood length if loaded N/S would put the splits right against the glass door. The back of the fire box is 19" wide while the front is 24" wide with just under 10" height. Just at seeing the shallow depth I was thinking of passing. As I looked further I noticed there wasn't a flue collar, the 8" pipe just sits down into the stove 2-3 inches. I asked how you secured the pipe to the stove and was told there are brackets that attach to the pipe with screws but then you have to cement the brackets to the stove top. Now I'm really not digging this stove even though from the front it doesn't look bad. I looked at the sides to see if there was a heat shield or not and found a thin sheet of metal (It was more of a skin than anything maybe 24 gauge) screwed to the sides with what appeared to be sheet rock screws. (Yes I said sheet rock) I told the sales man we needed a few minutes to talk which he readily respected.

My wife says "I don't understand all the talk about burn times and draft and flue pipe but" then she leans in a little closer and says "let's get the Princes" I say we'll talk more on the way home.

:coolsmile:

Thanks for posting your impressions of the Buck. From the front it's not a bad looking stove, but from the sides it looks like just what it is, an insert. It sounds like your wife has the right idea...

How many sq ft did you say you are heating?

 

[learnin to burn]

Quote - How many sq ft did you say you are heating?

If I leave all the doors to other rooms open 3000 sq ft.
If I close 1 door in Basement 2600 sq ft- close both then 2200 sq feet

Leave both doors in basement open and close all 3 bedroom doors - 2100 sq ft.

 

[Wet1]

I think I'd be looking at going with the big dog rather than the Princess then!

 

[learnin to burn]

Below is what concerns me about the King. The price is a bit steep too and if I went with it and had a problem I would most likely have to drop a 6" insulated liner down the flue which is way out of my price range right now. I really would like the king classic though. (FYI- 8" Thimble - 7x7 Clay flue liner in an outside masonry chimney)

Taken from a previous thread -
My saga - I first started looking at the BK King Classic, found a good price on line and took advice from you guys on previous threads. Downloaded the manual and started reading to be informed about installation. In the manual it says to have a minimum of a 36 inch rise out of the stove before placing any elbows. Then says that BK recommends 2 45’s vs a 90 degree elbow. Also says they recommend double wall pipe out of the stove but single wall will work.

I took some measurements based on the stove specks and found I would only have 26 inches total from the top of stove to the thimble. I called BK and talked with them about my issue. They were adamant about the double walled stove pipe due to the efficiency of the stove and the fact of me running it into an outside masonry chimney. When I asked about the 36 inch rise they had a big concern that I would have drafting issues after the cat was engaged because of the short length of upward travel before the first 45 degree elbow which would have been about 16 to 18 inches above the stove vs the 36 they recommend. Now it gets interesting. BK now tells me that he would highly recommend the Princes model to heat my 3000 sq. ft. house and again was adamant that I would be more than pleased with its performance. Then he states because it only takes a 6 inch flue I would have no issues with draft at all.

What do you guys think? Any BK King Guys with less than the 36 inch rise having an issue? Does the efficiency argument for draft sound right?

Princes Owners- Will the Princes do what I would be asking it to do. Stove in basement at foot of open stairs with an open floor plan upstairs. 1500 ft up stairs, same in basement, I can close some doors to lower my sq. ft.