Need some advice on an alcove

[Rawk]

We purchased our home a year and a half ago. Our house was originally built in 1912, and 25 years ago, it was moved to the present location. The original brick chimneys were back to back - one facing the living room, the other the master bedroom. The previous owner had two sheet metal fireplace inserts installed back to back.
We did not use them during our first winter because they just didn't look right to me. We got them inspected last summer, and the chimney sweep company mailed our check back to us. They wanted nothing to do with the fireplaces. They were installed improperly and dangerous. I removed both of them, and now I have a big cavity in the wall that I would like to convert into an alcove for a wood burning stove.
I got a good deal on a Dutchwest 2462 (catalyst) last summer. I can create all of the proper clearances on the sides of the opening, but I'm not sure how high to go with the alcove ceiling. I called Dutchwest today, and the tech guy wasn't sure either. He suggested at least 54" above the stove.
I want to pour a 3" concrete (tinted) slab on the floor and line the bottom 5' with brick. I'll have cement board behind the brick, and continuing up to the ceiling of the alcove. We have 12' ceilings, so there's plenty to work with on height. I am going to widen the opening to make it 6', which will provide the correct side clearances.
I just want to see if my thinking is right on this. I want it to be safe. Any feedback will be appreciated.

 

[webby3650]

Not that I’m for the inefficient ZC fireplaces. What was unsafe about them? From the looks of it the chimney sweep may have simply been unfamiliar with it more than a safety issue.
I would strongly suggest finding a better performing stove that’s easier to fit into an alcove. Is the stove alcove approved? I know it had Huge clearances in a typical setting.

 

[bholler]

Not that I’m for the inefficient ZC fireplaces. What was unsafe about them? From the looks of it the chimney sweep may have simply been unfamiliar with it more than a safety issue.
I would strongly suggest finding a better performing stove that’s easier to fit into an alcove. Is the stove alcove approved? I know it had Huge clearances in a typical setting.

He said they were installed incorrectly which many I have inspected are.

 

[webby3650]

He said they were installed incorrectly which many I have inspected are.

How so?

 

[webby3650]

Sweeps in my area are unfamiliar with most new products. So they will red tag stuff that’s perfectly safe and acceptable just because they are unfamiliar with it. So I’m immediately skeptical in instances like this. I find it very hard to believe that the safety issues couldn’t be remedied without removing the entire system, unless of course that what the homeowner wanted that...

 

[bholler]

How so?

Lack of proper clearances to the box and chimney. Lack of proper clearances to combustible trim on the face. Lack of proper hearth extension.

 

[bholler]

Sweeps in my area are unfamiliar with most new products. So they will red tag stuff that’s perfectly safe and acceptable just because they are unfamiliar with it. So I’m immediately skeptical in instances like this. I find it very hard to believe that the safety issues couldn’t be remedied without removing the entire system, unless of course that what the homeowner wanted that...

I am sure it could have been fixed but at what cost? If the framed opening wasn't big enough or the chimney was to close which it looks like it is it could be difficult and expensive to fix.

 

[webby3650]

Proper clearance on the box is an issue, but it looked like a brick structure in pic. The other issues are easy to resolve.

 

[webby3650]

I am sure it could have been fixed but at what cost? If the framed opening wasn't big enough or the chimney was to close which it looks like it is it could be difficult and expensive to fix.

Total removal though? That’s my point.

 

[webby3650]

Most boxes have 1/2” clearance, back to back I don’t see how this was an issue..

 

[bholler]

Total remodel though? That’s my point.

If you have to reframe the opening and move the chimney or rebuild the chase it is a total remodel anyway. Last year we inspected one in a new development and would the chimney only had 1/4" clearance on both sides inside the chase. The builder argued the pipe was zero clearance and it was fine even though I pulled a section out and showed him the sticker saying 2". He ended up having to rebuild about 40 chases that had veneer stone on them. How many other developments did he do that haven't been caught? Problems like that are not at all uncommon in our area and most of the time it falls on the homeowner because the house has changed hands or it has been to long etc. That is part of the reason I am so against stuffing inserts in them

 

[bholler]

Most boxes have 1/2” clearance, back to back I don’t see how this was an issue..

Was the opening large enough? Did the chimney have required clearances? We don't know.

 

[webby3650]

If you have to reframe the opening and move the chimney or rebuild the chase it is a total remodel anyway. Last year we inspected one in a new development and would the chimney only had 1/4" clearance on both sides inside the chase. The builder argued the pipe was zero clearance and it was fine even though I pulled a section out and showed him the sticker saying 2". He ended up having to rebuild about 40 chases that had veneer stone on them. How many other developments did he do that haven't been caught? Problems like that are not at all uncommon in our area and most of the time it falls on the homeowner because the house has changed hands or it has been to long etc. That is part of the reason I am so against stuffing inserts in them

It looks to me that there was enough room in this instance. Maybe the OP can say why the sweep flagged it. You know your stuff, that’s obvious, but a lot of sweeps need to stick to sweeping, because they know very little about installation or current product requirements.

 

[bholler]

Proper clearance on the box is an issue, but it looked like a brick structure in pic. The other issues are easy to resolve.

It is not brick structure it is clearly wood. And pulling the chimney and re routing it so you have proper clearances is possible of course but it is a pita and it is only possible if the parts are still available

 

[webby3650]

It is not brick structure it is clearly wood. And pulling the chimney and re routing it so you have proper clearances is possible of course but it is a pita and it is only possible if the parts are still available

I see that now. Definitely not brick, but still looks like plenty of room for ZC fireplaces....

 

[bholler]

It looks to me that there was enough room in this instance. Maybe the OP can say why the sweep flagged it. You know your stuff, that’s obvious, but a lot of sweeps need to stick to sweeping, because they know very little about installation or current product requirements.

Yes some do not. But I will add that many stove shop installers don't seem to know or care about the same thing. There are hacks in every feild. I just don't see what the sweep in this case would have to gain from sending the check back and saying the install was unsafe.

 

[bholler]

I see that now. Definitely not brick, but still looks like plenty of room for ZC fireplaces....

You may be right I don't know without seeing it installed

 

[webby3650]

Yes some do not. But I will add that many stove shop installers don't seem to know or care about the same thing. There are hacks in every feild. I just don't see what the sweep in this case would have to gain from sending the check back and saying the install was unsafe.

Without pulling the chase top, how did he see enough of it to make this determination? I assume he did some substantial demolition in order to make this statement. Maybe the OP will chime in...

 

[webby3650]

I will add that many stove shop installers don't seem to know or care about the same thing

I agree with that. Unfortunately many shops subcontract their installs out to carpenters and the like that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to fireplaces. Sad but true..

 

[bholler]

Without pulling the chase top, how did he see enough of it to make this determination? I assume he did some substantial demolition in order to make this statement. Maybe the OP will chime in...

I pull the chase cover on every one I work on the first time.

 

[bholler]

I agree with that. Unfortunately many shops subcontract their installs out to carpenters and the like that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to fireplaces. Sad but true..

Yeah it is sad. I am glad you didn't take that as a jab at you after I wrote it I though it could have come off that way and it wasn't meant to be at all. We may not agree all the time but you clearly know your stuff also.

 

[Rawk]

We moved out of a house that had a brick chimney, and we used it quite a bit and enjoyed it. The inserts, to me, were tinny (sheet metal) and cheap looking. The sweeps knew what kind of inserts they were. One of them was newer than the other. One was missing the refractory stones inside. Both of the chimneys had mismatching chimney sections from three different manufacturers. In some places they were cut with snips, spread, and screwed onto the sections below. Both chimneys were touching wood on the way up. They only protruded about a foot above the roof. We gave them a check for their services. That afternoon the home office called and wanted our mailing address so they could mail it back. A few weeks later I pulled them out and sold them for scrap. The bedroom insert had a 1/8" gap along the front edge between the insert and the brick hearth. Yes, there was wood under that gap.

I metioned in my call to Dutchwest that I intended to put the stove in an alcove, but I did not specifically ask if my stove is alcove compatible. I studied the installation instructions carefully. The safe clearance info covers installations near a wall or a corner, but not an alcove. I'll call them back tomorrow.

As for the opening, the brick you see is the back side of the hearth that protrudes into the bedroom. The house itself is wood. Thanks for the replies.

 

[webby3650]

It sounds like you had a big mess overall.

The bedroom insert had a 1/8" gap along the front edge between the insert and the brick hearth. Yes, there was wood under that gap.

The fireplace is designed to sit on wood subfloor. It should have had a piece of sheet metal that spanned that gap though. For future reference they aren’t inserts, rather Zero Clearance fireplaces.

They only protruded about a foot above the roof.

The photo looked like the pipes ran through a chase, 1 foot out of the roof isn’t acceptable, but if it’s a chase that’s ok. Assuming the chase meets specs.

 

[bholler]

We moved out of a house that had a brick chimney, and we used it quite a bit and enjoyed it. The inserts, to me, were tinny (sheet metal) and cheap looking. The sweeps knew what kind of inserts they were. One of them was newer than the other. One was missing the refractory stones inside. Both of the chimneys had mismatching chimney sections from three different manufacturers. In some places they were cut with snips, spread, and screwed onto the sections below. Both chimneys were touching wood on the way up. They only protruded about a foot above the roof. We gave them a check for their services. That afternoon the home office called and wanted our mailing address so they could mail it back. A few weeks later I pulled them out and sold them for scrap. The bedroom insert had a 1/8" gap along the front edge between the insert and the brick hearth. Yes, there was wood under that gap.

I metioned in my call to Dutchwest that I intended to put the stove in an alcove, but I did not specifically ask if my stove is alcove compatible. I studied the installation instructions carefully. The safe clearance info covers installations near a wall or a corner, but not an alcove. I'll call them back tomorrow.

As for the opening, the brick you see is the back side of the hearth that protrudes into the bedroom. The house itself is wood. Thanks for the replies.

Those are all good reasons to tear out the system.

I would read up on that stove before putting much time or money into an install for it. They have durability issues

 

[webby3650]

Those are all good reasons to tear out the system.

I would read up on that stove before putting much time or money into an install for it. They have durability issues

It’s a durable stove, it’s just not a big heater.. Prepare yourself to be underwhelmed!