Nervous and disappointed - Quadr-Fire Voyageur VIDEO

[Rick8325]

I've been trying to learn how my Quadra-Fire Voyaguer works but I'm getting a little discouraged. The dealer I bought it from and Quadra-Fire are not helping at all.

The flames are rolling up onto the baffle and ceramic blanket. I do not know if this is normal but it's really making me nervous as I can see glowing embers which I am assuming are the last fire's creosote being burned off. Right over the blanket is the collar to the liner and I can see how this could and probably will start a chimney fire. The air controls on this stove seem useless. I think you have to have the ideal environment for them to work properly. Burn time is probably 2-3 hours per load of 3-4 medium size cut logs. The wood is hardwood, mostly oak and has been split and seasoned for over 2 years if not longer (store bought wood is giving me the same burn times). Even with all of the air controls off and the insert door closed it seems like the fire is still getting a ton of air. The heat is good from the blower but it's barely being felt. Furnace is still kicking on and I think it's going on more because this insert is taking the air from the house. I've just installed a ceiling fan in the insert room and it's not doing much (it is spinning the correct way for winter). My thermostat is set to 66 and I can't even get the room over 66 where the insert is installed. That room is usually 3-5 degrees colder than the rest of the house too. I really want to make this work because the dealer would charge a 20% return fee.

Here's a video of the flames rolling up over the baffle and blanket:

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[northwinds]

I've been trying to learn how my Quadra-Fire Voyaguer works but I'm getting a little discouraged. The dealer I bought it from and Quadra-Fire are not helping at all.

The flames are rolling up onto the baffle and ceramic blanket. I do not know if this is normal but it's really making me nervous as I can see glowing embers which I am assuming are the last fire's creosote being burned off. Right over the blanket is the collar to the liner and I can see how this could and probably will start a chimney fire. The air controls on this stove seem useless. I think you have to have the ideal environment for them to work properly. Burn time is probably 2-3 hours per load of 3-4 medium size cut logs. The wood is hardwood, mostly oak and has been split and seasoned for over 2 years if not longer (store bought wood is giving me the same burn times). Even with all of the air controls off and the insert door closed it seems like the fire is still getting a ton of air. The heat is good from the blower but it's barely being felt. Furnace is still kicking on and I think it's going on more because this insert is taking the air from the house. I've just installed a ceiling fan in the insert room and it's not doing much (it is spinning the correct way for winter). My thermostat is set to 66 and I can't even get the room over 66 where the insert is installed. That room is usually 3-5 degrees colder than the rest of the house too. I really want to make this work because the dealer would charge a 20% return fee.

Here's a video of the flames rolling up over the baffle and blanket:

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First, you are unlikely to have a chimney fire unless there's fuel (creosote) in your chimney. If your chimney is clean, I wouldn't worry about that. Smoldering low temp fires cause creosote.

Second, as you noticed, you have big flames without a lot of secondary action. I have a small Quad insert. When the air is turned down, I have wild secondary action
and lazy slow flames on the bottom. That's what you want. Can you describe what stage the fire is in during the video? Are the air controls shut down for sure? How long?

 

[oldspark]

Yea where in the hell are the secondaries?

 

[Rick8325]

This is the beginning stage. Air controls are shut down. The burn rate lever is all the way the bottom and I don't even need to use the ACC lever so it's pushed up and out. Now the manual says nothing about the ACC lever being able to go up, just says in and out. I can only lift it up in the out position though. The insert room is at 63 degrees and the rest of the house is at 66 degrees and I've already burned through 5 logs in 2 hours. The wood is extremely dry which is probably why it's burning so fast. The logs are hot but when I poke them they crumble to ash as if they were burning slowly for 4+ hours.

When the fire is roaring I can see the black char on the formally white ceramic blanket being singed.

 

[BobUrban]

Shut the primary air completely off at the stage you are in and see what happens? If nothing changes you may have an air control issue. At the stage you are at and if the stove is HOT - like 35-400+ and you shut the air OFF with the primary control you should see less flame in the bottom and much more at the top shooting out of those little holes in the pipes.

The fire may die but this should give you a starting point and answer your "is this thing working" question. If there is NO change to the fire then look into your primary air control.

 

[velvetfoot]

That doesn't look the air is shut down to me.

 

[jdp1152]

That's way to much flame for air being closed.

 

[northwinds]

I'm not familiar with your ACC lever, but your fire is acting like your ACC/start up air is still open. Hopefully, someone with your stove model's air controls will be along
in a bit. If there's something wrong with your ACC lever, that would explain a lot. I'm not sure I would run your stove until you have an answer to that. I have
extremely dry wood also, but have no trouble getting the burn slowed down.

By the way, good choice posting the video.

 

[Rick8325]

(broken image removed)

The ACC lever is off - Up and out. Burn rate lever is set on low - down. Most times it's like a wind storm going on inside the firebox. The outside air kit plate on the front of the stove by the fan blower was removed as it stated in the manual. I wonder what would happen if I screw it back on....?

Don't think I said it before but it's a 20-25' chimney and the 6" liner was insulated. I'm getting no black marks on the glass so it's definitely burning hot. I'm just not feeling the heat in that room. 63 degrees and rest of the house is 66 with the furnace currently on and fire going.

 

[branchburner]

it's like a wind storm going on inside the firebox

I'm just not feeling the heat in that room

The wind storm is pushing the heat up and out. You need to isolate the cause of the wind storm.

 

[Rickb]

according to the manual is looks like the ACC is on with it up and out.

From the manual:
Page 10
7063-173E
May 23, 2013
R
VOYAGEUR Wood Insert
H. Air Controls
1. Start-Up Air Control
The function of the Start-Up Air Control is to activate the Auto
-
matic Combustion Control system (ACC).
•
Push
the Start-Up Air Control all the way back until it stops
and then pull forward to the front of the appliance until it
stops.
Figure 10.1.
•
T
he air channel opens and allows air to enter the front of the
appliance for approximately 20-25 minutes.
•
The air channel gradually shuts down until it is completely
closed at the end of the 20-25 minutes.
•
The fire is now controlled by the air supplied by the Burn
Rate Air Control.
Figure 10.1.
•
This function should be performed each time you reload the
appliance.

 

[Mackj]

Have you tried the dollar bill test? When my stove was first installed the door latch was not set correctly. After reading the manual I tighted that and got the control you are supposed to have. Maybe the door is leaking a lot of air?

 

[Rick8325]

Have you tried the dollar bill test? When my stove was first installed the door latch was not set correctly. After reading the manual I tighted that and got the control you are supposed to have. Maybe the door is leaking a lot of air?

Yes, it was tight all around in about 10 spots. I'm wondering if the extra air is coming in from the chimney?

 

[cabinner]

Wow... I am shocked. This is not normal? My new englander 17-vl does the same thing... the flames also overlap those baffle on top. not to hijack but I didn't know that this is bad news

So my stove, like yours, is not running correctly??

 

[Rick8325]

according to the manual is looks like the ACC is on with it up and out.

Yes, that's how I have it. The stove is easy to start a fire, even with the door completely closed, no ACC on and the burn rate lever set on Low-Down.

I have yet to be able to control the fire at all. Probably because it's getting air...?

 

[northwinds]

Take a look at page 10 and 11 of your manual again, specifically diagrams 10.1., 10.2, and 11.1.

It sounds to me like you are saying that you used the manual override on the ACC if you pulled it up and out. The manual describes that as an out and up action.
What happens if you leave the ACC pushed all the way in? When the ACC is pushed in and pulled out, that activates the ACC--according to the manual.

You definitely have air coming in from somewhere to get those big flames with the primary air at its lowest setting.

 

[branchburner]

Yes, that's how I have it. The stove is easy to start a fire, even with the door completely closed, no ACC on and the burn rate lever set on Low-Down.

Further above you said "The ACC lever is OFF - Up and out." and here you are saying "Yes, that's how I have it"... ACC is ON with it up and out.

??

The ACC system sounds like it's supposed to give an initial boost of supplemental primary air, then automatically reduce that amount of supplemental primary air over time, as the fire becomes hotter and more established for secondary combustion. For whatever reason (malfunction or manual override), it seems the air is not being reduced.

 

[oldspark]

Wow... I am shocked. This is not normal? My new englander 17-vl does the same thing... the flames also overlap those baffle on top. not to hijack but I didn't know that this is bad news

So my stove, like yours, is not running correctly??

Yes its normal to have flames go over the baffle.

 

[richg]

I have a 2010 Quad 4300 with the ACC setup and hate it like the plague. After getting sick of not being able to control the fire, I took the heat shields off both sides of the stove and carefully examined the primary air, front air and rear air setup. The way the ACC system is set up, you can not totally close any of the air intakes regardless of where you put the levers if the heat shields are in place. With the shields off, I can manually push the front and rear air intakes closed, but with the shields on, you can't see or get at them. As for the primary air, even with the lever "closed", there was still about a 3/8 gap. I put some magnetic tape over the remaining gap, and with the shields off, am able to open and close all of the air intakes to precisely regulate the fire. The stove is not pretty with the shields off, and it's also not "safe", but I am going to have a buddy of mine who is a welder do some cutting of the heat shields to allow access to the air intakes. This morning at 5:00 PM, I pulled out a layer of ash and dead chunks to allow a reasonably full reload. In went a good mix of sugar maple and white ash; never having seen this before, I am stunned to see the stove still putting out a lot of heat with a huge coal bed at 1:00 PM. People with Blaze King stoves will probably laugh at such short burn times, but I am thrilled with it. I hate Quadra Fire.

 

[oldspark]

I hate Quadra Fire

Tell us how you really feel.

 

[begreen]

I think rich is on the right track, though I would not go for full closure of the air control gap. It sounds like there is strong draft which may need an adjustment of the air control to bring about the desired control-ability. If the main air control gap is 3/8" try reducing that by half to 3/16" and see how that works for this year.

 

[HotCoals]

I have a 2010 Quad 4300 with the ACC setup and hate it like the plague. After getting sick of not being able to control the fire, I took the heat shields off both sides of the stove and carefully examined the primary air, front air and rear air setup. The way the ACC system is set up, you can not totally close any of the air intakes regardless of where you put the levers if the heat shields are in place. With the shields off, I can manually push the front and rear air intakes closed, but with the shields on, you can't see or get at them. As for the primary air, even with the lever "closed", there was still about a 3/8 gap. I put some magnetic tape over the remaining gap, and with the shields off, am able to open and close all of the air intakes to precisely regulate the fire. The stove is not pretty with the shields off, and it's also not "safe", but I am going to have a buddy of mine who is a welder do some cutting of the heat shields to allow access to the air intakes. This morning at 5:00 PM, I pulled out a layer of ash and dead chunks to allow a reasonably full reload. In went a good mix of sugar maple and white ash; never having seen this before, I am stunned to see the stove still putting out a lot of heat with a huge coal bed at 1:00 PM. People with Blaze King stoves will probably laugh at such short burn times, but I am thrilled with it. I hate Quadra Fire.

I for one would not laugh at you.
It bothers me a lot to read post on here where people have to modify the secondary air and or primary inlets on their stoves to be able to control the burn.
It's apparent to me the EPA went overboard on making sure the fires in these stoves would not smolder by leaving to much air intrusion when the controls are all the way down.

 

[begreen]

Usually it is the primary air that may need a slight modification. Stoves are designed and tested with a 15-16ft chimney. Chimney height and location can have a direct effect on draft that is hard to anticipate. A tall interior chimney in a house on a windy slope may draft much stronger than the same height exterior chimney down in a valley. To compensate, on an insert you can't put a draft damper in place so a small adjustment of the primary air control stop or opening may be the next best solution.

Here's a good article on the topic:
http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

 

[HotCoals]

Usually it is the primary air that may need a slight modification. Stoves are designed and tested with a 15-16ft chimney. Chimney height and location can have a direct effect on draft that is hard to anticipate. A tall interior chimney in a house on a windy slope may draft much stronger than the same height exterior chimney down in a valley. To compensate, on an insert you can't put a draft damper in place so a small adjustment of the primary air control stop or opening may be the next best solution.

Here's a good article on the topic:
http://www.gulland.ca/florida_bungalow_syndrome.htm

Well I been reading the secondary inlets also. From BrotherBart.

Mine last year came from the vacuum cleaner. Knowing that the 30 on the first floor has massive draft I had blocked off 1/3 of the secondary air and it became a dream to burn in. Vacuumed the fireplace and up around the blower in the back and was good go and lit it back up.

Packed the night load after establishing a coal bed and, long story short, right up to a thousand degrees. Realized while it was in progress and grabbed a flashlight and mirror and saw that magnet that should be on the secondary port pushed aside by the vacuum cleaner nozzle.

Couple of nasty hours followed.
Two Englander 30-NCLs Heat Redefined, Jotul F3CB, Jotul F100 Nordic, Englander 25-PDVC
Poulan Pro 405+ 65cc, 2 Husky 142s, Chusky 5200, Poulan 1975, 1988 Duerr Splitter

Lots of people make'em. Lots of people sell'em. Hearth.com shows you how to use'em.
BrotherBart, Yesterday at 10:25 P

 

[Dustin]

I shared your issue with my quad 4100i

My "start up air" lever ceased to function properly and I was unable to control the fire.

I tore the insert apart to find I couldn't gain accsess to this area without some cutting.

So, I took some furnace cement and plugged the two shotgun barrel looking holes in the back of the firebox that supply's the start up air. Problem solved.

The stove is now much more responsive. And, I don't think start up air is necessary anyway if you burn good dry wood, and start the fire right.