New and confused owner of HearthStone Heritage

[Dottie]

Hello All

I have been reading as many posts as I can, but thought I might ask your experienced wood burners to answer some specific questions.

I just bought and had installed a HearthStone Heritage stove. I spent about $5,300 having the stove installed with a good pad, and a HomeSaver chimney liner. Both the salesperson and the person who installed the stove talked about heat that “would melt the candles” and cause me to open windows…nothing of the kind has happened.

The stove is installed in a small living room 12x14 feet with 8 ½ ft high ceiling; it’s closed off from the dining room by French doors. I keep the living room door opened (it opens into the hallway which in turn is connected to the kitchen and the stairs going up the second floor bedrooms and bath. I keep the bedroom doors closed, except for my bedroom. In other words this is a small cottage about 24x32 feet with an upstairs, nothing fancy.

If I keep the stove running almost wide open to mid-way open it heats the living room after about 2-3 hours to a moderately warm temperature, the heat goes up the stairs and will heat my bedroom to a “cool comfortable” temperature in a few more hours. The kitchen, dining room, and hallway downstairs are about the same temperature as they were without the stove at all.

I am used to being cold, I keep the furnace at 55 degrees, but since I went to all the expense and trouble of having the stove installed and buying wood, I’m disappointed in the heat output of the stove. It’s supposed to heat a 1,300 sq ft area and at best it’s heating about 300 sq ft (unless they mean cubit feet).

I e-mailed the store where I bought the stove and they didn’t answer, so I e-mailed Hearthstone and they sent me a temperature chart which I don’t understand.


Stove Model Surface Temperature Draft (Inches of W.C.)
Low Medium High Typical Maximum
Heritage (#8020) > 250º 250-275º 300-400º .08 - .12 .10

I don’t live in a place that’s convenient for wood burning, since I’m in town, and I have lots to learn as I have never heated with wood before. I started at the wrong time of year as far as planning goes; I haven’t even begun to think about cutting my own wood, or building a woodshed and gate in the back fence, so I don’t have to pay extra to have the wood stacked on the front porch. But first I need to know if this stove was the right one for the house, if I needed a larger stove, or if something is wrong with the set up?

I really want to make a success of this, so any help is really appreciated. I don’t know if this makes any difference, except in the obvious areas of experience and strength, but I am a single female, 63 years old.

Thank you for any help and advice you can give me.

 

[Jags]

Do you have a stove top or stack temp thermometer, and if so, what temp ranges are they reading? If you don't have a therm on the stove or stack, get one (or both if you can). That is gonna be the first order of figuring out how the stove is running. The next most common issue will be the quality of your seasoned wood. Many sources of firewood claim to sell "seasoned" wood, but typically it is not seasoned to the 15-20% moisture content that it should be.

My first reaction is that you are simply not getting the heat output that your stove is rated for. Thermometers will confirm or deny that, plus they are very useful for everyday operation of the stove (from looking at the fire, I personally cannot tell if its giving me a 450 or 650 stove top temp and I have several years of operation under my belt)

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[mbk2000]

Hi Dottie. I can't help you with the stove problems but I'm sure you will find plenty of help here. I just wanted to share with you an easy idea for forcing some of that warm air into your other rooms. I have my stove in a small room too (12x14) and my kitchen was never warm enough while my stove room was very warm. I installed an inexpensive through the wall vent fan and it made all the difference. I opted for the plug in model since I'm not handy with electric and it was very simple for me to do. The pictures show both sides of the fan. You can barely see it, but I have a hallway beside the stove room and the air never made it down the hall to the kitchen by itself.

(broken image removed)
(broken image removed)

 

[bokehman]

If I keep the stove running almost wide open to mid-way open it heats the living room after about 2-3 hours to a moderately warm temperature

If you have the stove wide open most of the energy in your wood is going straight up the chimney along with plenty of warm air from the room.

How is the wood? Does it steam or get visibly wet at the ends when you load the stove? If you close the damper completely does it continue burning? How long does it take for the wood to light when you reload the stove?

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome Dottie. That stove should in fact be melting the candles. There is something afoot with the operation of the stove or the wood you are burning. The soapstone stove gang will be along shortly to help you get it cranking.

And you need to get that happening before Saturday night for sure. It is about to get cold around these parts. Real cold.

Where in VA are ya located?

 

[Tarmsolo60]

I have had a Hearthstone Heritage installed for about a week. I've had no problem heating about 2200 sq feet in about 20 degree weather with mine. I've had my house up to 76 with mine. I leave my door slightly cracked open until the top gets around 300 then close the door and my air down a little every 5 minutes or so until closed. you will get secondary burn and the tubes will get red hot. my wood might not be quite up to par for seasoning but this works for me. Drier wood would probably let me spped up my air closing. When it is burning well with the air shut down the top is about 450 degrees.

 

[Tarmsolo60]

I have had a Hearthstone Heritage installed for about a week. I've had no problem heating about 2200 sq feet in about 20 degree weather with mine. I've had my house up to 76 with mine. I leave my door slightly cracked open until the top gets around 300 then close the door and my air down a little every 5 minutes or so until closed. you will get secondary burn and the tubes will get red hot. my wood might not be quite up to par for seasoning but this works for me. Drier wood would probably let me speed up my air closing. When it is burning well with the air shut down the top is about 450 degrees.

sorry I hit the quote instead of edit to fix a spelling error.

 

[colsmith]

Dottie, I have a Hearthstone Phoenix which is quite similar to the Heritage, particularly in size and the area it should heat/BTUs it should give off. We heat our whole house with it, which is almost 2000 sq ft. and a vaguely similar layout to yours, living room connected to DR/kitchen through one opening and a hall and stairs up to the bedroom level at the other room entrance. The heat goes up the stairs well, the kitchen and a more distant family room could be warmer, but still we are heating the whole house fairly well and only need to have the furnace on when it is below 20 F outside for a while.

One problem after an idiot chimneysweep cleaned our chimney (and gunked up the stove) and messed with our heat output for some time until we corrected it when the stovepipe was off for cleaning. I noticed that the insulation/batting stuff on top of the baffles was lumped up and not spread smoothly over the baffles. (He had not taken the stovepipe off and just poked around above the baffles, where he had knocked all the soot and crud into.) After putting the insulation smoothly over the thermoceramic baffles or whatever they call the part above the secondary burn tubes, all of a sudden the house was getting warmer. For many months our heat output had been decreased noticeably and we wanted to murder the chimney sweep, because the lower heat level (and more furnace running) coincided exactly with his horrible cleaning job. We had taken the pipe apart and gotten gunk out of the top of the stove but hadn't noticed insulation thing then. The stove needs to be cool to stick your hands in there, of course, and in lieu of taking the stovepipe off you can just reach up and over from the front of the stove and try to be sure the insulation is not lumped up if you have small hands. Don't poke it too hard because you don't want it to rip. Probably not your problem, more likely the wood or bad draft or something? but during installation it could get messed around with, and it is something fairly easy to check when the stove is cool. Good luck!

 

[Highbeam]

Whoa. Don't go looking for insulation. The Heritage doesn't have that lovely "feature".

You'll need to go buy a stove top temperature gauge and sit it on the middle of the top of the stove as Hearthstone directs in their manual. My heritage will hum along happily at 300-350 but won't make appreciable heat until past 450. My best guess is that you are underfiring your stove.

I don't run it wide open to get the high temps. Seems that once it is going well that lower air settings actually accelerate the temperature rise of the stove top. The owner's manual identifies 500 as the high burn temp and at 500 the stove will be making enough heat to be very noticable.

How tall is your chimney? The minimum is 14 feet for the heritage measured from the stovetop. Any bends? Does your wood hiss or bubble water? I have found the heritage to tolerate a pretty wet wood load once it is up to temp but dry wood is so much better.

 

[tutu_sue]

Dottie, the number one culprit of poor heat output and having to give it a lot of air to say lit is under seasoned wood. That would be wood that has been logged, split and stacked outdoors without direct rain and snow for less than 12 months. Is your wood less than 12 months old? Wood seasoned at least 1 1/2 to 2 years will give you all of it's potential and be a dream to burn. When I use proper stove wood, I can reload and have the stove cruising in a few minutes and with little or no attention until it's burned to embers. Are you spending a lot of time having to turn the air up after you had it turned down? Do the flames go out when you turn the air down. Sometimes I tell people to buy a couple of bundles of supermarket logs as a test to see if the problem is with the stove or the wood. That may be a good idea in your case.

How much wood are you putting in the stove? What are the size of your splits?

 

[njdrt-rdr]

What do you consider moderately warm ?
and I think trying to heat from that cold of a temp takes alot of heat.

I just installed the same stove in my house 2 weeks ago. It's in my living room 15 X 17. I keep my house about 65, then when I get home, I fire it up. Within an hour it's 75 in the living room. I have some fans to pull air into the bedroom and kitchen and it raised the temps in those rooms about 6 degrees.

I've been running the stove top about 400 with the air control half way shut. I filled the stove with wood about 1am last night at at 6:30 am, the stove was still 250 and the temp in the living room was 74, 70 in the bedroom and kitchen. So that means that from 6pm yesterday until sometime today my oil burner never fired up to produce heat.. That's what I intended this stove for. secondary heat source, not primary.

Nick

 

[jpl1nh]

I think the "being able to melt candles" bit is inaccurate and unnecessary hype. Your soapstone stove is far better at maintaining a consistent warm temperature 24/7 than throwing skin searing heat. That's one of the wonderful features of the stove. As the others have said, get yourself a stove thermometer so you know what temperature your stove is at. Dry, seasoned wood makes a huge difference over purchased "seasoned" wood though you've got what you've got for this year. If your wood is still a bit green, splitting it thinner can help it burn better. Loading it full but loosely will give you quicker hotter fires while using larger more closely stacked pieces will allow longer but perhpas somewhat cooler burns. Burning it with the air wide open lets a lot of heat go up the chimney, let your fire get burning well and back the air down in a couple of steps. You will become much more effective with your stove over time. Try different things as you read here and observe what happens. The best news is that you have a great stove that is fully capable of heating your space. Hang in there!

 

[mikeathens]

The stove is more than adequate - even if insulation is not the best. My house is much bigger, and likely less insulation.

As others have pointed out, get yourself a magnetic thermometer to set on the middle top stone. Also, get yourself a probe thermometer for the chimney - it will require drilling a 1/4" hole for that one in the connector pipe.

Once this is done, you will notice very quickly that the stove can take a couple hours (if not more) to start putting out heat.

Every install is different, but here's what I do:

Get your kindling burning (there's a nice video floating around here that you should watch), then add a few smaller splits. I keep the door cracked until my chimney reaches about 400-500 on my chimney thermometer. Shut the door, with primary air wide open. COntinue to watch the chimney temp. Mine will easily climb to 900+, usually about 30 min-1hour later. Shut air control incrementally, until it's 1/4" - 1/3" open, and continue to watch chimney. At this point, mine will settle down to 600F - 700 F. The stove top will get up to 450 - 500, at which time, it is really cranking out the heat.

During your first burn, try to get a feel for what air setting keeps good flame in your firebox without heating the chimney too much. If you sustain a 700 F chimney temp for a couple hours, your top stone thermometer might reach 600, but not likely. A 600F chimney temp maintained will result in a stovetop temp of about 450 - 500.

Just keep in mind, you need to keep a constant fire in these stoves, or you'll never get good heat. If you're letting it burn down to slight coals, and then firing up agin, and repeating the process, that could be the problem. You'll see that a 200F stovetop temp is hardly any heat at all, while 500 will about burn your face off. I try to keep mine in the 350 - 550 range.

Green wood will definitely affect burning, too. you;ll pull your hair out trying to balance air control and flame if you don't have good dry wood. If all else fails, get the dealer out to show you the ropes. I just checked draft on mine, and that is another big factor. Dealer should do ALL of this for you for free, minus the cost of thermometers. If I paid that sort of jack, I would expect a visit if I was having trouble...especially if they installled it, too.

Good luck

 

[Dottie]

Thank you all for your answers. It seems that something must be wrong somewhere, as from your answers it as it appears that the size of the stove should be adequate for the space.

To address some questions and ask some more:

Where do I purchase the thermometers. Do I need both?

The wood is supposed to be seasoned, it doesn't seem to sizzle, and appears dry. It's mostly split, but some are not. I think it's mostly elm, with a little locust. It seems to burn rather fast, but I'm not sure how fast is fast. I think I've gone through about 1/2 cord since 12/26 and didn't have it burning for about a week as the weather was warm.

I'm afraid that I do have a pattern of having it die down to coals and then firing it back up; this happens when I'm at work and overnight. I'm away at work for about 9 hours a day, but I go home at lunch and put in wood, so the stove is not burning furiously most of the time, I also turn it down at night.

When the damper is turned down as low as it will go, the stove does continue burning, but at a low rate.

I'm located in Winchester Virginia, as far north as you can go and still be in Virginia.

I don't know if it is underfired, but I usually can't get more than 2-3 pieces of wood in the stove at a time. I read something about cracking or poking holes in the baffle, so I've been leery of cramming it full. Also the way wood is shaped it doesn't seem to be large enough to get more than that in.

How big a bed of coals should there be? And, how do you clean it out when it is still burning? I was wondering, because it seems that you would have do do it this way if in order to heat properly you keep it fired at all times.

I'm really at a little disadvantage about wood, since I have to buy it depend on others for delivery. I really need to have a place in back so the wood can be "dumped" to give me more choice is wood selection. Right now I have to pay a lot for the wood and then pay to have it stacked on the porch. That doesn't give me much choice as I doubt most dealers are willing to do this so I bought the wood from my daughters boyfriend. There are only 5 people selling wood in the paper at this time.

The post about the wall fan was interesting, but I don't know if the layout of the rooms would allow for this. I thought about a floor register, from downstairs to the bedroom, but I really like the bedroom cool, so the heat that rises seems sufficient to me upstairs in the one bedroom that I keep open.

Well, I hope you will excuse the choppy sentences and paragraphs, but I was trying to address the posts. The recurring theme seems to be checking the heat by thermometer and having properly seasoned wood. I will try to get thermometer(s) this weekend and study the temperatures and it was was a good idea about the packaged wood, just to test the difference to see if that is problem.

I really appreciate you willingness to help and if I can't figure this out and something still seems wrong, I will have the knowledge and backup information from trying your suggestions to contact the store or the installer and see what they think.

I really do want this to work I just filled my oil tank with 275 gallons of oil and it was $880... hopefully this will be my last purchase for a couple of years, if I can get the stove working properly. I hate being "over a barrel" (pun intended) by the oil companies and am really sick of their weak excuses (the weather, the refineries, the "whatever"), I would feel just as mad but less disgusted if they just said that we are going to charge you whatever we like because we can, that at least would be honest.

Thank you so much any ideas, answers, and suggestions, they are most welcome.


Dottie

 

[mikeathens]

Thermometers: Dealer will have them. If not, local hardware store probably will (lowes usually carries the magnetic type, probe type might have to be ordered - definitely will be able to find them on the internet. Mine are both "condar" brand (broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/meters.html) ). You don't need both, but it is nice (at least with my pickiness) to be able to monitor what's going on. For the small cost, it's good peace of mind - magnetic will set you back maybe $10, probe for your chimney maybe $20 (magnetic will work on the chimney, too, but slower response and not as accurate). Both will allow you to gauge when to set your air, and keep an eye on your stove top so you don't pass that magic 600F point.

You should be able to get up to temp with smaller loads - just have to load more often. I am gone for 11 hours during the day with a load in the morning, and it will keep my house above 60 all day, with enough coals to get going when I get back. The stove top will be at 200 at that point. I add wood every few hours overnight, and by morning, the coals will be maybe 4" thick. When I get home, they will be down to about nothing, and I have to start over again.

elm is a pretty crappy wood to burn (low Btu value), but you should still be able to get good results. Watch that video, and remember not to cram wood in there. You need to experiment with loading - i have found that if you place with wood in so there are lots of gaps, you have a better chance for success. If you fit everything in tight, you will likely have a smouldering mess.

You will figure it out in time. The thermometers will deifinitely help you get what you want out of the stove.

 

[struggle]

One thing for sure like others said you need a thermometer on the center top of the stove. This is a must and would be even be better if you ordered a flue probe thermometer as mentioned in the above post. They are great tools and really are a must and cheap to get.

Soapstone will heat better after you let the wood char/burn for about 10-15 minutes at a high rate and then close the primary air down little by little. The less air you get in the stove after the wood is charred the longer your burn times will be and the more heat the stove will retain. If you let the stove go full all out the heat is just going out the stack, so this is why a probe thermometer in the stack is very usefull to help you balance the temperature inthe stove. If you see high flue/stack temps then your stove is losing a lot of heat up the flue. If you see this then slow the fire down.

There is a video on here and if I find it I will post the link that is a must for you to watch about how to operate a newer stove properly. The thoery works the same for soapstone as it does with the steel one in the video.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

Dottie click this link and click video on that page and watch this closely.

 

[mikeathens]

And, how do you clean it out when it is still burning? I was wondering, because it seems that you would have do do it this way if in order to heat properly you keep it fired at all times.

I forgot this one: when I get home in the evening when the stove is a bit cooler, I shovel out 4 or so scoops of ash into my ash pail. To keep dust down, I set the pail near the door, take off the lid, gently drop the ashen in, and put the lid back on quickly while I get the next scoops. This keep the ashes at a good level and I can also try to exclude the still glowing coals to allow quicker startup.

I'm sure other will have lots more to say about all of your questions. Good luck. Hang in there. It is really rewarding and gives you a sense of security when you get the hang of it.

EDIT: The ash pail stays outside on a concrete surface. It is only in the house, on the hearth, when I am getting ashes out (about a total of 5 minutes per day). It can get hot, so don't set it on a wood floor or other combustible surface.

 

[struggle]

Dottie also you need to look for fireplace type rated gloves or foundry type gloves to handle and or move wood around in the stove and with dealing with hot coals.

Since you said you are new to this as well when you scoop coals out of the stove what ever you do, DO NOT PUT THE OLD COALS IN THE GARBAGE!! Even after a couple of days you can still have hot coals that could start a plastic trash can on fire.

I store all my coals from cleaning the stove out in a full size metal can that I take to a local yard waste dump to get rid of properly after the can gets full.

My wife once took coals out of our old stove speard them out under a pine tree in the fall and it actually started the pine needle under the tree on fire and the fire went up the tree as well. I was at work when this happened and the neighbors put the fire out. It was partially my fault as I would regularly put coals out under our shrubs on the fall but on bare ground and she was just doing what I did but never gave a thought about it being under the pine tree with needles. She was quit :red: after that.

 

[swestall]

HI-everyone has asked the question: you need to figure out why the stove is not getting up to temperature. Read this item: (broken link removed to http://chimneysweeponline.com/hosoapstone.htm) The components of this article will help you to understand your stove better.

Go to this link and order a thermometer: http://www.amazon.com/Medallion-The...2?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1200582137&sr=8-2

Your thermometer won't stick to the stovetop so place it in the center in front of the stove pipe connector.

You need to operate this stove at 300 to 500. Not more than 550 or so. At 300 it will start to throw some nice heat and it will get better from there.

Once the fire is established (you will have flames burning up to the top and even curling around in it) you should cut the damper back to about 1/2 but definately in the upper half of the dampers adjustment range. Then let the fire burn for a bit more (15 mins - 30 mins) At that point you should be able to cut back to 1/4 or so. If you damp it all the way donw, it will burn slow and eventually not as hot. BUT, the secondary burn tubes will be lit for some time after that.

To maintain the temp. you should let it burn down from the high temp (500-350) to just under 300. At that point you will have some coals and can easily go through the process again.

I hope this helps. If it does not help, get your installer to come back to the house and check the installation for draft integrity. The should measure the draft with a meter and make sure all connections have good integrity.

Also, take note that the soapstone stove will draft much better as it gets hotter.

Feel free to PM with any questions, etc.

 

[Dottie]

Thank you all so much. I'm learning so much from you all and I'm determined to get better at this and I appreciate your help.

Dottie

 

[Highbeam]

I can only get about 3 or 4 splits in the box too so that's no big deal. Avoid hitting the roof in there with the firewood since the roof (grey baffle plate above the tubes) is fragile.

I have not gotten a flue thermometer. Just the one that sets on your stove. Given your experience I would suggest you simply get the stove top thermometer from a hardware store or the stove shop and set it on there to see what you've got. Report back when you've done this. I've attached a photo of my heritage which shows my Rutland thermometer from the Home Depot. Maybe someday I'll get a flue thermometer but drilling holes and such requires careful thought and planning.

 

[mikeathens]

what I've found is that you could be running your chimney at 1200 and not know it for 1/2 hour because your stove top is only at 300. This can happen even if it looks like a nice, relaxing fire in your stove! Then again, maybe I wouldn't spend so much time tweaking everything because I wouldn't know the chimney was so hot!

 

[bcnu]

I'm into my first year of woodburning with the HS Homestead - the Heritage's "little brother/sister). Very helpful responses as I'm still learning how to operate my stove. The stove top therm. was what really helped me - I bought a Condar for $18 at a stove shop and it sits on middle top tile. My stove vents directly into fireplace so I can't use a stack therm. I'm still on the up hill side of "getting to the 400+ degree level" of the learning curve. It often take me sooo long to achieve that level. I can get to 300-325 pretty easily - but find it harder to keep it climbing. You really do need 400+ degrees to have it pump out the heat. Then ok to have it drop into the mid 300 range to maintain. I'm going to experiment with some of these suggestions to get my initial temps up more quickly. I think I often shut down the air control too quickly. Here's today's experience:

8 A. M. Outside temps are hovering around 32 - with 25 overnight. Inside temp at 69. Stove top temp about 250 with one small split going - plus coals from overnight burn. I put in a medium split of dry fir that burns easily and quickly then a little later I added a medium size split of dry seasoned oak and a similar size piece of dry fir. As they burned down I have added another piece of oak. So over the coarse of the past 2 1/2 hours I managed to raise the stove top temp to 380 and climbing. The inside temp is now at 73.5 and I could see our indoor weather station's temp begin to rise more quickly once the stove got to 350. Air control now shut down and secondary burn is looking great across the entire firebox. I'll keep checking the stove top temp. (PS:by the time I finished typing the rest of this post my indoor thermometer has dropped to 72.5 - and stove top is holding at 390. I probably need to open the air control a bit to get indoor temp up...as I like it warm. 72 inside and 33 outside)

If I could get that stovetop temp to 400+ more quickly. Dottie, we'll both get there. On the other hand I could probably do away with the stove top thermometer and go by the dog. She starts out as close to the stove as possible and continues to inch away as it heats up. Right now she laying on the wood floor with only heer snout on the hearth. I know we've hit the sweet spot when she stand by the door to go out and get some water from her dish.

Quickly - 40 year old ranch house; heating 700 sq ft of open space; new windows/doors;basic insulation with full basement and attic; 8' ceilings and no fans to move heat.

 

[mikeathens]

I added a flue damper to my stove and was able to get longer burn times and better temperature control using the primary air lever. I use the damper to its fullest capability when the chimney is getting really hot. Seems to help with better secondary burn, too.

I did this when I checked the draft and it appeared to be pushing the maximum 0.1" WC. Since the gauge I was borrowing from the stove shop showed a huge variation in readings when I switched from the "low" range (between 0.01"-0.09") to the high range (0.05"-1.0") making me question its accuracy, I figured that the damper would probably help.

 

[Dottie]

I've been printing out your replies and plan of studying them all tonight. It's been snowing like crazy today and I didn't get to go home for lunch, so I know the stove will be out when I get there. I'm planning on stopping at my local hardware store before going home and getting a thermometer in order to start in on practicing some of your advice. I'm afraid of trying the kind that you have to punch a hole in the pipe and don't know if I should anyway. My stove vents out the back with a black pipe connected to the stainless steel pipe up the chimney. It's a HomeSaver pipe and it may be double walled, I don't know. Anyway, I'm not sure where to punch the hole anyway. Is there somewhere that I could get some idea of the pipes temperature without using that kind of thermometer?

I also ordered some other wood, to test and see if this is part of my problem. I think I will also try a box fax to try circulating the air out of the room. I read on another post that you should blow the cool air toward the stove.

You are all very generous with your experience, knowledge and advice and I would like to thank you all again. This is a wonderful site.

Dottie