New build: freestanding vs. zero-clearance?

[Audubon]

Building a 18x22 family room addition onto 2000 sq ft colonial in Northern Virginia. House is currently heated by electric heat pump, and new room will be tied in. Heat pump is fine most of the time, though it does struggle to keep up for the couple weeks of cold in late Jan/early Feb.

Wife: Hopes to have fireplace/built-ins/window seats as focal point of new room. Concerned about safety of three children, guests, etc. Has general fear of fire. Stay-at-home-mom who is certain she will not operate this stove in any way while at home alone with a toddler. Thinks she can live with a nice zero-clearance, perhaps Napoleon 3000 or Lennox Montecito. Thinks a freestanding stove, although "cute", is dangerous and takes up too much floor space in what will be the main living space of the house.

Husband: Born and raised in New England, of Norwegian heritage. Need I say more. Cares about aesthetics but really wants to crank out some heat 24/7, though realistically, only for a few weeks a year. Thinks the ZC options are too pricey and is leaning toward a freestanding stove (Jotul Castine).

What kind of price difference are we talking about here? Is the difference mainly just in the units themselves? Would construction, foundation, framing, installation be significantly less with either option?

Any other ideas to keep these two happy?

 

[ScotO]

Welcome to the forum! I installed a Napoleon NZ3000 in our living room rebuild and we LOVE it....it's a real heater, that's for sure....
But it is expensive......



Also have a Napoleon 1900p on the kitchen hearth, and it's an amazing heater as well......




We love both the stove and the fireplace, our house is around 2800 sq.ft. and you don't need both of them to heat the house....pretty much one or the other.....

But it's nice to have 'em.......very cozy in this house!

 

[Freakingstang]

I would venture to recommend a free standing. I just put in a ZC last winter, and while it kicks out the heat, I think a free standing would be more efficient

 

[alforit]

Welcome to the forum! I installed a Napoleon NZ3000 in our living room rebuild and we LOVE it....it's a real heater, that's for sure....
But it is expensive......

View attachment 108462 View attachment 108461

Also have a Napoleon 1900p on the kitchen hearth, and it's an amazing heater as well......


View attachment 108459

We love both the stove and the fireplace, our house is around 2800 sq.ft. and you don't need both of them to heat the house....pretty much one or the other.....

But it's nice to have 'em.......very cozy in this house!

WOW..........great taste in design.............very nice.

Heh.........Looks so nice it makes your freestander look dated .

 

[ScotO]

I originally built that kitchen hearth with the intent of someday putting an Esse Ironheart on it......
But wifey and I were perusing the 'net this afternoon just looking and we found this one that really caught our eye....and it would fit PERFECTLY on our scallop kitchen hearth!!

 

[alforit]

I originally built that kitchen hearth with the intent of someday putting an Esse Ironheart on it......
But wifey and I were perusing the 'net this afternoon just looking and we found this one that really caught our eye....and it would fit PERFECTLY on our scallop kitchen hearth!!

View attachment 108477

Now your talkin...............That would be a beauty sitting on that hearth

 

[begreen]

Some questions: How high will the ceiling be in the new room? If you got the Castine, would it only be heating the new addition or is the intent to heat more? If more, how open will the family room be to the rest of the house.

Based on the 24/7 requirement and if heating more than the new room, I would look at the Oslo. If not, the Castine may suffice.

 

[Sprinter]

It would help a lot to know more about the floor plan. How the new room is connected to the main house and where the new stove is located will determine how effective it will be for heating the house, if that is your goal. Don't count on the central air to distribute the heat, it doesn't work that way.

What is your goal for the new stove? For full time heating of the house, or supplemental to the heat pump, or just heating the new room?

Also, how serious is the fear of fire for the wife? I wouldn't under-estimate that factor if it's real. Fears are real, justified or not.

 

[Audubon]

Here's the basic floor plan of the first floor. (Second floor is same footprint as the first floor, minus the addition, with 4 bedrooms, 2 baths.)

First floor ceiling height is 8'. Family room addition (18x22' on left) will have 10' tray ceiling (10' center, 9' around edge). There will be a large, probably 6' doorway into the kitchen. There will be a smaller, 3.5' doorway into the dining room.

The goal for this stove is still being debated. Obviously, this needs to be resolved before a decision can be made. Don't expect to use it for full-time heating of the house. Realistically, hope to supplement the heat pump for a few weeks in late winter when we do get colder weather. Generally, our winters are pretty mild.

Husband thinks, when it's cold for those few weeks, we can run this 24/7 to supplement the heat pump for heating the house. Wife thinks we won't really use it enough to make it a financial and room-layout priority -- between our relatively mild winters, busy lives with 3 kids, and wife, at this point anyway, insists that she will not use the stove while home alone during the day with the kids -- not a fan of fire in general and especially around rambunctious kids. (Re. the fire fear: when she lights a match, she rinses it under the faucet and then lets it sit on the counter for a day or two to make sure it's really out before putting it in the trash. Likes a cozy fire and all, but wouldn't dream of going to sleep at night with a fire burning downstairs.)

Wife is hoping that, when all is said and done, putting in a Napoleon 3000 wouldn't be significantly more expensive than a freestanding Jotul. Husband would be happy that at least it's better than a crappy pre-fab and he'd have the ability to at least heat up the room once in a while, and wife would be happy that she still has her pretty fireplace and her toddler can't stand on it.

 

[begreen]

I can appreciate the wife's concerns. Lots of folks with kids here have found out that kids, even rambunctious ones, learn respect for a hot stove quickly. As for pricing, expect the NZ3000 installation to cost maybe double of what a freestanding stove would cost. In freestanding, the Castine sounds like a good choice. It is a beautiful stove and easy to operate. Just be sure that you have an ample supply of wood on hand. EPA stoves do not burn well with poorly seasoned wood.

 

[ScotO]

By the way I'm reading this post, it kinda sounds as if you are designing or constructing this house for a client. If that is the case, you need to know that installing a ZC fireplace, they are much more expensive and can be temperamental appliances.......

I've had to do some tweaking to mine to get it the way I wanted......the everyday "Joe" may not want to deal with things like that. Just an FYI for you. Mayne a freestander would be the best option in this instance, if you don't want them complaining to you down the road......

 

[Grisu]

While I would favor the stove just because it is cheaper, will put out more heat, will give you more flexibility when the power is out, and you will have better selection, one advantage of the fireplace is that it will probably be a plus if you ever want to sell the house. People don't care about woodstoves but quite a few appreciate a nice fireplace in their home.

 

[Sprinter]

The 3000 fireplace may be expensive, but if that's what fits with the plans and your aesthetics the best, then it will be worth it in the long run. Even if you only use it occasionally (like most regular, open fireplaces are anyway...), it will be a nice addition to that room. You may find yourselves using it more than you think and the wife will probably become more comfortable with it over time.

A stove may be best for serious full time heating, but in this case, you may be happier with the fireplace.

 

[Woody Stover]

Too bad you don't want to supplement more heat with a stove; That looks like a workable layout. I'd guess your wife would get more comfortable with fire after witnessing how safe a stove is for a while. But maybe not, and maybe never any serious heating would be possible.
Still, I would go for a big, cute freestander, in case the power goes out....

 

[begreen]

Another thing to consider is how densely populated your area is. A fireplace can really smoke up the neighborhood. We have a neighbor that put one in a couple years ago and it is awful when there is a low pressure system in place.

 

[aansorge]

A less expensive ZC that while it can't compare to he Napolean 3000 in terms of heat output still does a nice job heating: (broken link removed to http://enerzone-intl.com/product.aspx?CategoId=19&Id=446)

The osburn stratford and Flame Monaco XTD ZC are both basically the same fireplace with slightly lower prices. The Enerzone did about 75 percent of my heating in Minnesota. In the cold months the furnace needed to help. (Now I have a Blaze King and will no longer need the furnace!)

I have a 10, 9, and 6 year old and all have burned their fingers....once. One on my Lopi in the old house, one on my gas fireplace (replaced now by the Blaze King), and one on the Enerzone. If you have any kind of stove, gas, freestanding or fireplace, the kids will, out of curiosity, touch it.

I think a Jotul would be nice as would a Pacific Energy Alderlea ... (broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/alderlea/)

 

[aansorge]

With the Enerzone, you could get the optional hot air gravity kit or forced air kit to help heat the rest of the house. The Napolean has some options for this as well.

I have the forced air kit on my Enerzone and heat my basement with it.

 

[Audubon]

Thanks, all, for your thoughts and ideas so far.

Seems like an option at one extreme, both in $ and heat output, would be a Napoleon with the kit to tie it into the whole house duct system. It would be big investment, but, if actually used, could heat the house well.

Would the alternative, at the other extreme in $ and heat output, be just a pre-fab fireplace? If it was decided that a fireplace was wanted for looks and an occasional fire, without any expectations for actual heat? Can anyone recommend a decent pre-fab that's not pricey? Is there such a thing? (I neglected to mention that the house has a 1970s-vintage pre-fab in the small den/reading room on the other side of the house. Pretty with nice mantle and built-ins. Functions but certainly doesn't heat.)

 

[begreen]

There are cheapo contractor grade fireplaces for $500 or maybe less. That said, you get what you pay for. We see lots of people here tearing these units out. I would not put in less than an EPA fireplace in my house if I was serious about using it for heat. A regular fireplace will remove more heat from the house than it will put in. If you are trying to keep costs down, yet still want to heat, a freestanding stove will be the best option. That is, unless you have natural gas at the house. If you do, that might be an option worth exploring.

To put a number to this, you can put in a nice freestanding stove for under $4K. With some careful shopping you might get it to around $3K. FYI, there will be a 10% up to $300 tax credit by going with an EPA stove or fireplace.

 

[Sprinter]

Seems like an option at one extreme, both in $ and heat output, would be a Napoleon with the kit to tie it into the whole house duct system. It would be big investment, but, if actually used, could heat the house well.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has done this and how well it works. It sounds good, but to recoup the costs, it should be used often. I'm willing to bet that you will start to use a good appliance like this a lot more than you think now.

 

[begreen]

I agree Sprinter. A warm room becomes a gathering place in the winter. My wife was dubious about 24/7 heating. Now she runs the stove when I am away and it is running 24/7 when it's cold outside.

One point I have to emphasize though, burning with unseasoned wood is negative fun. And the odds of finding truly seasoned wood now are slim. If you can find good seasoned wood, expect to pay a premium for it this season.

 

[Blue2ndaries]

Welcome to the Forum Audubon. We have the Quad 7100FP and it is the primary source of heat for our 2964sqft 1-story house (newer construction). It does a really nice job of heating the house; we are pleased with its performance and aesthetics. That said if we lived in a different, colder climate I may have chosen a freestanding stove. In OR the winters are not that harsh, and aside from the 2 to 3wks during the winter where it is in the 20s during the day and teens/single digits at night, most of our 4 to 5 heating months are one big shoulder season. If we lived in a really cold climate, I would likely have installed a free-standing woodstove.