New fireplace and exterior chimney

[Eventhorizon]

Hello All,

After some to/fro on buying a new house and doing a self-build I've decided to stay put! However, because I searched into fireplaces I've now got the fire bug and want a proper fireplace in my present home. I have a very crappy, leaky builder level wood fireplace. It has a 6' flue. It's also an exterior chimney that's been made as cheaply as possible I assume as during the winter there was a LOT of cold air coming in and to get a fire going I'd have to open the door/window so minimize the smoke coming into the room. A pain in the ass basically.

My question: If I want to put in a new fireplace like an Opel 3 or even an insert like a Voyageur what should/could I have done to make the exterior chimney less troublesome? It's stucco boxed right now so would I have to have it opened up and insultated? Would that make a worthwhile difference compared to the cost? I'd like to keep the total cost of the whole thing under $10k if possible...

I'm in SE PA.

Thanks

 

[RickBlaine]

I am new here so take this for what it is worth:

Many wise members here will tell you that although an exterior chimney CAN work, it would be best to run an insulated stainless steel liner through it so that you don't wind up spending thousands to fix an already poorly built chimney. There were a few threads here recently where member "begreen" posted a picture of a poorly built chimney that was used without a stainless steel liner. House fire resulted.

You are going to get asked how tall your chimney is, how many square feet your house is and how many square feet the room your fireplace is in, and how big your chimney opening is (mine was lined with clay flue liner that was 13 inches by 13 inches- so running an insulated 6" liner through it was a piece of cake).

 

[Owen1508]

I am new here so take this for what it is worth:

Many wise members here will tell you that although an exterior chimney CAN work, it would be best to run an insulated stainless steel liner through it so that you don't wind up spending thousands to fix an already poorly built chimney.

+1 I concur
I would also suggest having a chimney sweep clean the exsisting chimney for you and give it a once over

 

[begreen]

It does sound like an insulated liner is in order, if an insert can be installed. This is assuming the current fireplace a zero clearance unit. Correct? If so, that may limit insert options. We'll need to know the make and model and dimensions. (H,W D top and bottom) Also, how tall is the current chimney?

 

[Grisu]

To add to RickyB's list of typical questions:
- How well is your house insulated?
- Are you planning on using the fireplace as your primary heating source?
- Do you have several cords of wood for drying in your yard already?
- Some pictures would help.

Then, it sounds like you don't have a masonry chimney. Is the flue 6"-wide or 6 ft tall? Zero clearance fireplaces usually have a specific kind of chimney they can be installed with. Check the manual for the ones your are interested in and talk to your local dealer/installer. He will also tell you how much they need to open your current chase to install everything. Under 10K should be possible, IMHO, if your chase does not need to be completely rebuilt.

Another option would be to install an insert in your current fireplace and run a liner down your flue. It is a point of contention here whether that is really a good idea as prefab fireplaces usually are not approved for that kind of application. Tearing it out and replacing it with an EPA-certified unit is the more safe way of doing it. Nevertheless, going for an insert will be cheaper and quite a few people here have done it without ill effects. To look for units that would work with your current fireplace knowing the model and dimensions would be helpful.

 

[bholler]

I am one here who is against inserts in zero clearances for many reasons discussed in length here before which I will not go into you can find tem on old threads if you are thinking about going that way. But I will say that if your current fp is letting that much cold air in I would change it because putting an insert in it will probably only partially fix that problem if at all. You also may need some more height to make it work properly.

 

[Grisu]

For a recent discussion about the pros and cons regarding a fireplace insert in a ZC fireplace: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/to-insert-or-not.126308/

And here is one of someone else installing an Opel fireplace: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/narrowing-the-field-rsf-opel-3.126664/

 

[Eventhorizon]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. The fireplace is a very low quality builder grade, pre-fab fireplace that's zero clearance. It's got crappy brick effect lining and it looks like it's stamped metal to be honest. It will NOT be staying. I've had a chat with a RSF seller and he said if my chase is just framed then it won't take the weight of a fireplace and maybe not even a quality insert. So the chase is going and will be replaced with a proper chase that can take the weight of a Opel3. What I want to know is will I still have the issue of a cold draft coming down the chimney no matter what I do because it's an exterior one? There is no option to bring the chimney inside the house.

I will be using the fireplace for the main hear source as much as possible. Total Sq.F is 4200 that includes a partially finished basement but the main area to be heated is downstairs and whatever residual heat that can warm up upstairs. It's a new house, 18months old. It's pretty tight with the exception of the drafty fireplace.The RSF dealer said I could turn the house fan on and have the heat circulated around the house that way if I didn't want to do any duct work - which I don't.

 

[begreen]

You can insulate the new chase as long as clearances are safely honored. It shouldn't introduce cold drafts and the fireplace will have its own outside air intake. About how tall is the current chimney?

 

[bholler]

a properly installed good zero clearance unit should not give you a draft. You can always insulate the chase unless the unit calls for a ventilated chase to cut down on any possible draft.

 

[bholler]

And like bg said adhere to proper clearances as well

 

[Grisu]

What I want to know is will I still have the issue of a cold draft coming down the chimney no matter what I do because it's an exterior one? There is no option to bring the chimney inside the house.

What do you mean with cold draft coming down the chimney? Does your fireplace not have a damper and cold air comes down the flue? Or is your chase somehow open to the room?

I will be using the fireplace for the main hear source as much as possible. Total Sq.F is 4200 that includes a partially finished basement but the main area to be heated is downstairs and whatever residual heat that can warm up upstairs. It's a new house, 18months old. It's pretty tight with the exception of the drafty fireplace.

For an airtight home I would add an outside air option to the Opel 3. It will help draft of the fireplace and give you a little bit higher energy efficiency.

 

[webby3650]

a properly installed good zero clearance unit should not give you a draft. You can always insulate the chase unless the unit calls for a ventilated chase to cut down on any possible draft.

We have removed several in the last few years that had no insulation around the unit, some without a draftstop above it either. It's simply a sheet metal box, cold air WILL pour straight through it. Much of the time we end up insulating behind units on new construction because the builder has no intention of doing it.

 

[Eventhorizon]

We have removed several in the last few years that had no insulation around the unit, some without a draftstop above it either. It's simply a sheet metal box, cold air WILL pour straight through it. Much of the time we end up insulating behind units on new construction because the builder has no intention of doing it.

That sounds like my builder... I would NOT recommend them to anyone. Wish I could do it over again and have gone with someone else but oh well...

 

[bholler]

All of the high efficiency units I have worked with are not just sheet metal boxes they are sealed and insulated many times. The builders boxes yes they will conduct allot of cold in. But when I said properly installed that would cover insulation and draft stop ect. that is of course unless the unit calls for a ventilated chase then you need to let air flow some.

 

[bholler]

but yes I agree with you webby that most builders don't know of care how to make these units work correctly

 

[webby3650]

All of the high efficiency units I have worked with are not just sheet metal boxes they are sealed and insulated many times. The builders boxes yes they will conduct allot of cold in.

I was reffering to builder boxes.

 

[bholler]

I though that after reading it again didn't mean to imply you were wrong at all sorry if it came off that way