New guy with Sierra 4600 questions...

[five 7]

Hello folks, my name is William an I just bought a house last month in Central MD that has a double sided fireplace. I hadn't really thought much about heating with wood but a strange sequence of events unfolded that are leading me in that direction. More about that later.

My immediate situation is this. I have a 1800 sf ranch with entirely below grade basement. I have a heat pump with oil fired furnace. I am looking to substantially supplement my heat with a wood burning insert. The fireplace centers between the family room and living room, i.e. not on an end wall. I would like the stove or insert to face the living room side as that is closer to the center of house.

I am considering an old sierra 4600 insert that I have but am concerned it will be a fuel hog, might be dangerous or my insurance will give me grief over it. My untrained eyes gave it the once over and i see no obvious, defects other than a pane of glass and some gasket needing replacement. I also have good access to free firewood from woodlot nearby but have to cut, haul and split...no biggie there other than time as i enjoy the physical labor.

The flue cap is 13.5' to the damper and about 16 to the bottom of fireplace. I realize that I need a liner, probably insulated. If i recall correctly the insert has a 6" outlet but there is only about 5 inches of space between the fireplace damper opening. Can i squish down the insulated liner or should i be cutting out part of the damper frame? Which liner should i be looking at, ridgid or flex? Any other advice or suggestions would be welcome.

Also do you think I'll be okay with the old sierra insert or should i bite the bullet now and get a modern stove? Im pretty limited on funds after the DP on the house. The chimney looks pretty good although i plan on cleaning it before i drop the liner. I'm also wondering what i should do on the back side of the stove where it would be visible to the family room. Block it off with something like cement board or just put a screen over the opening so i get some residual heat from it? I think i also need to pass the liner through some type of blocking board (cement board) near where the damper would have been?

I have above average DIY skills and common sense but this is all new to me and i want to figure out what I'm getting myself into before I take the plunge.

 

[begreen]

I would suggest installing a new EPA insert for the best outcome. There are some decent economy units in the $1000-1200 range. It's best to cut away the damper opening so that the liner can clear without ovalizing it fit past the damper area. Regardless of stove you will need the chimney completely cleaned including the smoke shelf area before installing the liner. And you will need to burn dry wood for the cleanest flue and best heating. Typically good hardwood needs 2 yrs seasoning after being split and stacked. Ash can be the exception at one year.

 

[jatoxico]

It's not clear from the pictures which side would be preferable to have the stove or if you could use a freestander but I agree w/ getting a newer unit. As far as hiding the back some black screen would probably do the job. A plate to seal the liner as it passes through the old damper is an excellent idea and can be made from sheet metal. You should also insulate above that w/ Roxul. It's called a block-off plate and there is a lot written here about the advantages and how to build them.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ock-off-plate-for-a-masonry-fireplace.147679/

 

[five 7]

Thanks for your replies and advice guys, I'm teetering here. I am not a wood burner at all, but a friend recently gave me a free hydraulic log splitter and I have an old Sierra wood burner that's in fairly good shape. With some of the tree's that have fallen in my yard and a nearby woodlot , I presently have about a cord of seasoned hard wood, split and stacked that would take 10 years to burn in the outdoor fire pit. Since the house is mostly electric, I have an interest in reducing the $300-400 dollar electric bill, I'm just not sure of the payoff time frame of putting in a wood burning stove? If the money savings part stacks up, I'll jump on it in a minute, just not sure if an old stove is worth even hooking up or a modern stove is even worth the expense and hassle of doing at this stage? For the most part I have a pretty much unlimited supply of seasoned firewood that is mine for the taking with the only expense being a small amount of gas, oil and back pain. There are a half dozen hardwood trees in my eyesight that are dead standing or fallen over and I could harvest without much heartache.

 

[rwhite]

"Old insert" is pretty subjective . See if there's a label or you can identify the model to determine age. It may be an epa rated insert. Sierra did make modern stove.

 

[begreen]

The Sierra 4600 in first post. Is this still the same insert?

 

[rwhite]

Totally missed that. So it's a pre EPA stove but it is a cat stove. so it may not be too bad. If it uses a 6" flue and is priced good I'd probably give it a try.

 

[five 7]

Ok i was wrong, it is a Sierra Turbo-BurnT4500 insert. It was stored offsite so i just recently laid eyes on it again after many years of storage. It says tested, 9/21/82 so she is old, and has a little surface rust but in very good condition overall. Can anyone tell me how i should adapt this to 6" pipe? The stove was free so I'm more than willing to take a chance on it. The only real expense will be some elbow grease and hi heat paint. I figure the cost of the liner is mute point, as even if this dinosaur doesnt work out, the liner will be there for whatever modern stove i put in?​

 

[begreen]

Looks like a 10.5" x 4.5" oval output connection or about 47 sq in. Try to locate a 10,5 x 4.5" to 8" round adapter. Then line the chimney with 8" stainless liner. (make sure it will fit)

 

[five 7]

So let me see if understand the reason for 8" adapter. The sq. Inch area of the outlet would be choked down too much with a 6" liner creating a draft or flow problem?

Along the same lines, now even if I can get an 8" liner to fit my chimney, not only will i be paying more for the larger 8" size but most modern new stoves are setup for 6" liners which is steering me in the wrong direction if I become unsatisfied with this old heavy ship's anchor. Hmm decisions, decisions.

I'm also guessing that the mfg prob designed this stove with this unusual oval outlet so that a short piece of oval pipe could get up past most narrow chimney dampers and immediately terminate there?

 

[jatoxico]

In an earlier post you questioned whether running a wood stove would be much use from a savings standpoint. Wood stoves will give much more useful heat than a fireplace can and many here are using it as their primary heat. How much you can supplement depends on the setup and layout of the home as far as getting the heat where it needs to be but make no mistake stoves kick out serious heat. There is also the comfort factor. I would never keep my house as warm with oil as I do with wood stove.

You have it figured right. Most modern stoves use 6" liners. Many older stoves like the one you have were installed w/o any flue or just with a short section of pipe up the existing flue. That kind of install ("slammer") is no longer allowed and is dangerous. You could still install what you have and heat well with it but you're right about the 8" being somewhat obsolete and could require removal of the existing clay tile.

Typically to fully line a chimney you have to remove part of the old damper to get it through. You may also need or want to have the liner insulated. May be considering the cost of material and labor that getting a newer stove/insert is actually cheaper and the right move. Have a sweep come out and see what liner etc would fit.

 

[begreen]

William, your assessment is correct. If the goal is to heat 24/7 with wood then a modern stove is going to provide much better efficiency. The majority of modern stoves require a 6" round flue system. That would be your best investment. A new mid-sized insert will fall in the $1200 to 2500 range. I would focus on inserts that work well with a shorter chimney.

 

[five 7]

Thanks guys, this forum is a wealth of knowledge and information.

Is there any market for selling the old Sierra insert or should I just stop sanding on it now (prepping for paint) and cut it up for scrap?

A few months ago i had no idea I would be in this house or even considering wood burning appliance but here I am and i'm cozying up to the idea quickly. The other thing i have going for me is a free (nearly so anyway) 27 ton log splitter. Before I purchased the house, a buddy sold his farm and just gave me the splitter. I had no need for it at the time but i figured someone could use it and no point letting it go to waste. The third thing is I have a free supply of firewood and about a cord currently stacked, covered and seasoned.

I think for convenience sake a pellet stove would be more fitting to my family's liking and ability but free firewood, a splitter, and space to store the wood is awful tempting. I could divest myself of the splitter and present antique insert with a few bucks in my pocket hopefully and apply the cash to a new pellet stove but then I rather enjoy the physical aspect of cutting, hauling and splitting wood and like i said, free is hard to argue with. I just know if I'm not around, getting teenagers to stay on top of feeding the stove might be problematic or even dangerous. Gosh so much to think about here and as usual i am probably over thinking it.

As advised, I think the first order of business will be to get a good sweep out here to clean, inspect and guide me further.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I love those through wall fireplaces. I love wood burning, but man..a propane or NG glass fireplace would look amazing in that spot.

I'd put the woodstove in the basement.

 

[begreen]

Go ahead and paint the old insert. In good shape it will bring $250.

 

[BrotherBart]

The T-4500 won't be a good fit for that pretty fireplace. And the flue outlet is an oval so you are in for a hundred bucks or so for a boot to mate it to a liner. Though I loved that old 650 pound tank and burned in it for 21 years, I wouldn't advise it for that application. Sell the old girl and use the money to buy a cleaner burning stove that will use half the wood.

 

[five 7]

Thank you everyone. All of the feedback I received was exactly what I needed to make an informed decision. I'm gonna finish what I started, "polishing" her up and throw on craigslist to see what happens? Kinda sad actually, such good shape for her age. Chimney sweep coming this week.

 

[jatoxico]

Nice. Would be interested to hear what the sweep says.

 

[five 7]

I looked all over the web and could not find a manual for this stove. In cleaning out some old files, look what I found! I scanned and put it here in case someone else's web search brings them to this page. Hopefully with the company defunct it wont violate any copyright laws. If it does I will remove it.

If there is a place in the forums for manuals and such, I couldn't find it. If so, maybe someone more adept could copy it over there?