New Guy with some boiler questions

[randylamarr]

Hello from Wapakoneta Ohio

Im currently looking at a foreclosed home that is 5300 sq ft and Im interested in putting in a gasification boiler system. need suggestions on a system that i can add on to the central heat and air that is already in the house. The house has two natural gas furnaces in it now so I will need to run water lines to 2 heat exchangers so i can feed both sets of duct work. Any help would be great. Im just a retired Air Force vet looking for help!

 

[mustash29]

Thank you for your service. 10 yrs Navy here, dad did 5 Army, one bro soon to retire from Army and little bro is PA Nat'l Guard reserve.

You found the right place to find help, lots of really good folks on here.

Start with a heat loss calculation, there are plenty of online calculators out there. If you can get any info from the previous owners or utility company about fuel usage, that will help to solidify the heat loss calculations.

With that sqft, you should have plenty of room for a nice boiler room and plenty of thermal storage. Storage allows the boiler to run flat out and dump its BTU's to the tanks, which the house can draw from as needed.

Are you planning on an inside install or putting it in an outdoor building / shed? Both are viable options, some like to keep the mess outside, some like the storage tanks inside the heated envelope.

Read the stickies in the forums. If you go with a remote building, plan and build your pex trench properly and with adequate insulation. You want to heat the house not the ground.

Cord wood or pellet boiler?

There are many good boilers out there, Garn, Froling, Vigas, Varmebaronen, Eko, Windhager.

When you spec out the water to air heat exchangers, oversize them so you will be able to take advantage of lower storage tank water temps.

 

[arbutus]

Do a heat loss calculation. The builditsolar website has an estimator to get you in the ballpark.
The Uponor Complete Design Assistance Manual and the Zurn Radiant Design Manual are free PDFs you can download that walk you through a simple calculation - not hard to do your own with their examples.

Then you can size the system appropriately, and most importantly, figure payback time against natural gas, or figure out if additional insulation will be more cost effective.

 

[randylamarr]

Ok i have looked at heat loss but I really don't think I'm going to get an accurate number yet because the house has all single pane windows and Im installing all new windows and insulating as well. need to figure out what is going to be the best way to build thermal storage in the basement I want to have a complete indoor system

 

[randylamarr]

and i forgot to add I'm looking for a cord wood boiler

 

[heaterman]

A fair amount of thermal storage will be mandatory due to the forced air set up. When the furnace blowers come on you need heat right now and when they shut off your load is 100% gone. Running a cord wood boiler on a system like that is a recipe for disaster if there's no storage in place. Your heating load will probably demand a boiler in the 150-200,000 btu range as the house stands right now. If you tighten things up as you go along, storage will soak up the extra output of the boiler.
I don't have any suggestions as far as what to use for your storage tank because I don't know what you can get into the basement. There are non pressurized tank systems available that fold flat, made by STSS http://www.stsscollc.com/ and they work really well.
As to boilers, there are many to choose from running the price spectrum low to high.

 

[randylamarr]

I was looking at 200k BTU and looking at doing around 1500 gal of thermal storage. There is a 4ft door going to the basement so I was thinking possibly 3 or 4 propane tanks. If i do this what is the best way to insulate them? Im thinking of building a room around the tanks and having it spray foamed to completely seal them in. Im also thinking of adding a garage and using in floor radiant heat in there.

 

[heaterman]

Random.......

Boiler and storage in the future garage area may hold some advantages..... just a thought.

If you learn to load the boiler according to the weather conditions 500-1000 gallons would probably be what I'd go with. Anything more than that and you might as well get a Garn 2000 and be done with it.
Over sizing the boiler/storage ratio can be just as bad as undersizing in many cases.
If you are going to burn next winter your wood should be cut, split and stacked right now.

 

[randylamarr]

Ok I want to size it correctly as far
As wood goes I have about 25 cords of wood cut and stacked already. I'm just looking for the best and most efficient way to set up a system I also need to mention the old house has 6 fireplaces in it as well and i will be putting new wood inserts in them as well

 

[goosegunner]

If you are set on putting it in your house, limit your choices to induced draft quality boilers like Froling or Tarm innova. If you are thinking garage install. I would look seriously at a Garn and the opportunity to have a fairly simple install.

gg

 

[Tennman]

Our homes are similar. Ours is slightly under 5kft with 4 fireplaces, no storm windows, 1850's construction, no wall insulation. It has a propane forced air furnace for the downstairs and a heat pump upstairs. From about T-day thru early April we only heat the downstairs which keeps the upstairs ~4-5*F cooler for sleeping. Our kids and guests adjust to a cool upstairs. Our BioMass 60, now with 1000 gal of storage, is performing as it was intended. 1,000 gal seems about right giving reasonable recovery time after energy is pulled from storage yet offering plenty of time between fires. You're in a much colder latitude than us, but last year we had long periods of record breaking temps here in Tenn, the 60 kept up and is definitely putting out far more energy this year with it properly tuned. Agree with heaterman on storage and gg on the type of boiler. There are two camps; those who prefer in-house and those who prefer out-building installs. Both camps are correct depending on your priorities. Presuming you pick one of the proven gasification boilers, where you put it is a large factor in being a satisfied operator. Welcome and you've found the right place if you want to heat with wood.