New Heat Pump then Power Company Doubles kWh rates

[UpStateNY]

It sounds like the price hike is temporary, but I guess you will need to wait and see.

New York State Senate to investigate utility companies, power producers amid steep bills

The state Senate's Committee on Investigations and Government Operations is looking into skyrocketing energy bills.

www.lohud.com

Central Hudson first said it was Temporary. A week later they said it may be longer. Yeah I always thought NY state regulated electric rates. Turns out not so much. Even the Delivery rate is only somewhat regulated. The supply part is what really increased from 8 cents to 21 cents per kWh. Delivery is stable at about 9 cents per kWh. Big increase at a really bad time for many. My neighbor used mini-splits this winter for the first time this year and just got a $900 bill for one month. Ouch. If he had locked in on #2 Fuel oil he would have been better off. If we all locked in on the different electric suppliers at 7.49 cents per kWh (versus 21 cents) for 2 to 3 years we all would have been better. off.

My confidence in stable electric rates are shattered. 😕

 

[yooperdave]

the concept of a global market versus local production seems to be hard to grasp for some.

Not so quick there, butch!

Maybe it's more of a concept of being lied to, being misled, being fed propaganda that is hard to grasp!

Just fall into line........

UpStateNY is right when he said "you can not win"

 

[SpaceBus]

Not so quick there, butch!

Maybe it's more of a concept of being lied to, being misled, being fed propaganda that is hard to grasp!

Just fall into line........

UpStateNY is right when he said "you can not win"

The government is not feeding the propaganda, there isn't even an agency to create it. ALL of the propaganda is coming from private corporations.

 

[old greybeard]

Just south of you I’m paying .079. PPL, my comparison power delivery rate is currently .09. We have electric choice in PA. Can choose suppliers, choose green if we want, with the extra cost.
New York does not allow fracking. Lots of gas in NY. Hope you’re paying more for NG than we are in PA. Close by we recently tore down a 200 household supply coal powered plant. Replaced with a 1 million household NG plant. Reduced emissions by 90% with a 5x increase in output. And cheaper fuel. Our landowners, including me are benefiting thru royalties and cheap propane as well.

 

[LogCabinFever]

There could be lots of reasons for big utility jumps. Many utilities were partners in nuclear power plants, that are either closing down or the owners are being paid a premium to keep them running. Many utilities switched to natural gas fired power plants and natural gas had gone way up in price. Many states have put in renewable mandates and surcharge customers to incentivize renewable generation and efficiency upgrades. I have seen discussions that in Mass, these programs are about 8% increase a year regardless of fuel costs. Many folks also are confused on who they are buying their power from. Many states have customer choice on who they buy their power from. The utility charges a delivery fee but the power comes from private supplier. In some cases the utility bill for both and hands the supply fee to the third party. Those private plans usually are very tied to fuel costs unlike the standard default plan the utility charges.

Exactly this. I’m not sure if you are under Eversource or not. If you are, I’m sure you remember the controversy that happened a couple years ago when they hiked the rates drastically, specifically in CT. Complaints were made in an investigation was started. The initial blame was placed on the Millstone nuclear plant hiking their rates. Although Millstone did indeed hike their rate, it was minimal in the end being only a few cents. Winded up being the major cause was legislation that was passed years ago requiring the doubling of the percentage of renewable energy generation while decreasing nuclear. Renewable energy is well documented to be more than twice the cost of nuclear energy. On top of that, Connecticut gets almost all of its renewable energy generation from out of state, which further adds to supply fees. Consequently Connecticut has I believe the second or third highest electric rates in the entire country.

I’m all for renewable energy, but I think there must be a balance. Renewable energy can never practically be the sole source of power generation. It’s too costly and far too inefficient. Increasing appliance and home efficiency while fully switching to renewable energy is, at best, premature. At worst, not sustainable and not wise. Where it shines is as a supplement.

Green Energy is fantastic and worthy of some pursuit, but renewable energy is not a basket that should carry all the eggs.

 

[Brian26]

So here in upstate NY, NYPERG and our Central Hudson electric power company provides great rebates to install Heat Pumps. So we install Heat Pumps. Then on Feb 10, 2022 Central Hundson last month decides to increase kWh rate from 16 cents per kWh to 30 cents per kWh. You can not win. This is the ultimate bait and switch. They sold us on, don't use fosil fuels for heat, you can save money and help the environment by switching to electric heat pumps.

This is a complete loss in confidence that the electric power company is going to provide electric power at STABLE reasonable rates, which historically they have done until last month.

Has your power company had significant unprecedented rate increases like this?

Even at .30 kwh if your heat pump has a cop of 3 its still half the cost or more to run compared to current heating oil/propane costs. Heating oil is $5 gallon here in CT and a quick Google search shows similar prices in your area.

Many newer hyper heat units can achieve cop's much higher closer to 4. What kind of heat pump did you install? Do you know the HSPF of the unit?

 

[yooperdave]

The government is not feeding the propaganda, there isn't even an agency to create it. ALL of the propaganda is coming from private corporations.

I don't think I said it was the gubermint, but then they don't bother with propaganda.

It is just outright lies now-a-days! 😁

 

[fire_man]

Central Hudson first said it was Temporary. A week later they said it may be longer. Yeah I always thought NY state regulated electric rates. Turns out not so much. Even the Delivery rate is only somewhat regulated. The supply part is what really increased from 8 cents to 21 cents per kWh. Delivery is stable at about 9 cents per kWh. Big increase at a really bad time for many. My neighbor used mini-splits this winter for the first time this year and just got a $900 bill for one month. Ouch. If he had locked in on #2 Fuel oil he would have been better off. If we all locked in on the different electric suppliers at 7.49 cents per kWh (versus 21 cents) for 2 to 3 years we all would have been better. off.

My confidence in stable electric rates are shattered. 😕

Why don't you lock in at one of the current Supplier offers? These offers look better than what we have in MA.
I try to stay away from cancellation fees. I noticed in the zip code 12534 just North of you (National Grid), the alternate Supplier rates are about half what is available to you which stinks.

Yikes that $900 bill for your neighbor's mini splits makes me wonder if something is wrong with one of them.

I found this concerning note on the NY Gov website:

• The Public Service Commission has been critical of certain Energy Services Companies, or ESCOs, particularly regarding prices. The Commission is considering whether the retail access market for energy commodity is working properly, or if it should be revised.

 

[UpStateNY]

I just got my Feb to Mar electric bill. Cost of delivery is almost unchanged. The energy supply rate (cost to produce the energy) increased 3.5 times over the same month period last year. Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe oil and natural gas prices went up 3.5 times In the last 12 months. This has the smell of a monopoly that can charge whatever they want. Having all my energy needs, (EV, heat, cooking, hot water) from a monopoly that can just increase rates by 3.5 timess in a single month is extremely concerning. I prefer competition and alternative options.

 

[begreen]

That's terrible. My understanding is that it's not just the cost of energy, but the cost of transmission via Con Ed line has gone way up too. Compared to last year is not exactly accurate due to other variables like weather, personal usage, etc. That said, it may be worth contacting the state public utility commissioner, Rory M. Christian, considering that Hudson Power only projected a 46% electric increase on their website, not 350%.

Energy Supply Cost Volatility

Cold weather can cause increased energy usage, which may potentially result in higher supply prices and in turn higher energy bills. Unlike Central Hudson's delivery rates, market energy supply prices often rise and fall in step with customer demand. Central Hudson and other delivery utilities...

www.cenhud.com

 

[peakbagger]

The state of Maine had a study done of the various third party power plans available in the state versus the "standard offer" (sometimes called the default rate). They compared the cost of the plans over various long terms and the conclusion was rarely if ever did the third party plans offered in the state show any savings over the standard rate. The third parties tend to offer teaser rates initially but ultimately they are buying power from the same suppliers that the default rate does. The only thing is they usually have an out if the price of power goes up substantially to adjust their rates quicker. At least one big third party firm that was selling NH went out of business when they failed to properly hedge for a spike in power costs.

In a net metering state the only way to win is not to play the game by putting in enough on site generation. The utilities know that and they are always trying to shift costs onto the monthly fee as even folks like me that have not bought power for several years still need to pay the monthly rate.

Transmisson costs are going up, a lot of the renewable generation is in rural areas like windmills and solar farms and the grid doesn't have the capacity to carry the power. The cost to upgrade the grid in many cases gets transferred to the user rate.

 

[stoveliker]

^^ that.

I see my monthly fee creep up. Granted it's not much $$, but it went from $12-13 to $14.50 or so in 2 years. That's peanuts (b/c net metering and sufficient production), but it's an increase of near 20 % in two years

 

[SpaceBus]

They charge us to upgrade infrastructure, then use profits to lobby to increase rates further.

 

[peakbagger]

The vast number of utilities are publicly regulated. They used to be local but now many are owned by international firms that do the bare minimum to keep the politicians happy so they do not lose their franchise. That said all the New England States are in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative RGGI states and that will raise the cost of power as it puts value on carbon emissions. Other states do not care about green house gases and their power is cheaper. The Clean Power Plan proposed during the Obama administration would have leveled the field, New England states would not have had to do much while coal states would have needed to spend a lot.

 

[fire_man]

I just got my Feb to Mar electric bill. Cost of delivery is almost unchanged. The energy supply rate (cost to produce the energy) increased 3.5 times over the same month period last year. Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe oil and natural gas prices went up 3.5 times In the last 12 months. This has the smell of a monopoly that can charge whatever they want. Having all my energy needs, (EV, heat, cooking, hot water) from a monopoly that can just increase rates by 3.5 timess in a single month is extremely concerning. I prefer competition and alternative options.

Did you see the chart I posted for your area? You can still lock in a decent fixed rate much lower than what you currently paying.

 

[Bad LP]

The state of Maine had a study done of the various third party power plans available in the state versus the "standard offer" (sometimes called the default rate). They compared the cost of the plans over various long terms and the conclusion was rarely if ever did the third party plans offered in the state show any savings over the standard rate. The third parties tend to offer teaser rates initially but ultimately they are buying power from the same suppliers that the default rate does. The only thing is they usually have an out if the price of power goes up substantially to adjust their rates quicker. At least one big third party firm that was selling NH went out of business when they failed to properly hedge for a spike in power costs.

In a net metering state the only way to win is not to play the game by putting in enough on site generation. The utilities know that and they are always trying to shift costs onto the monthly fee as even folks like me that have not bought power for several years still need to pay the monthly rate.

Transmisson costs are going up, a lot of the renewable generation is in rural areas like windmills and solar farms and the grid doesn't have the capacity to carry the power. The cost to upgrade the grid in many cases gets transferred to the user rate.

The 3rd party offer boned me hard then when I opted out they said I had to wait. Really? Wait to stop getting screwed? I think not.
Read where I had to have no outstanding payments to stay in the program so I responded with I’ll pay the delivery charges and let you people kick me out of the program. Only then did the woman say I couldn’t do that and my reply was “watch me”!
They cut me free. I then called my buddy who had turned me on to this screwing and he freaked out. Went thru the same “you can’t” that quickly got him off it as well.

Never again

 

[UpStateNY]

Did you see the chart I posted for your area? You can still lock in a decent fixed rate much lower than what you currently paying.

Yup I saw it. I tried to sign up with a fixed rate last week. I spent hours and hours on the phone over many days. I even had a three way call with the fixed rate company, central hudson, and myself. Complete failure but at least I gave it my best effort. Nice website though. Try to actually sign up to get a fixed rate is whole other story. At this point I stopped trying until my 6 months of bills get all up to date.

 

[old greybeard]

The government is not feeding the propaganda, there isn't even an agency to create it. ALL of the propaganda is coming from private corporations.

I have friends who are ex broadcasters, being paid good money working for the state generating propaganda. You’d be shocked how many millions are spent on this. Both parties have a separate group of reporters and photographers who push their agenda. I know the PA budget for just the house arm is 10 million. Most news stations just regurgitate what they are fed.

 

[UpStateNY]

...... Most news stations just regurgitate what they are fed.

Yup and there lies the problem. Central Hudson says 45% electric bill increase, which sugar coats the increase and the papers print it. If a customer uses a 1000 kWh or more per month the increase will be more than 45%. What they are not telling them is that, Electric Supply Rate increased 2.5 times versus previous 12 month average and 2022 February rate is 3.5 times more expensive versus 2021 February rate. Last I checked the commodity prices for oil and gas did not increase 3.5 times in one year. The papers are also not telling anyone that up the road in Albany, NY National Grid rates had NO increase.