New house, new (to me) Lopi Liberty

[Shimanok2]

Hi All,

As the title implies we just moved to a new house and with that came a Lopi Liberty woodstove and a CB E-classic 2400. I'll start another thread on the latter. Prior to this we heated with a BK princess for 6 seasons and then a Woodstock Fireview 205 for a partial season up to December, abeit in a slightly smaller house that was insulated very well. I've attached a picture of the stove setup for review.

So far I've read through the manual a few times and poked around on the forums here but can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for so figured I'd ask the pros.

1. Twice now, on colder nights, I've reloaded the stove very full and followed the manual for rough times to get the fire nice and hot before turning it down. I was measuring stovepipe temps at either 550 or 625. The first was using the stovepipe gauge and the 2nd using an IR sensor. Not sure which is really correct. Well, after pulling the air adjustment out for overnight burn I've noticed that the stack temp and stove temp continue to rise. I could hear the air being sucked into the stove and it was almost as if the air control wasn't working properly. Finally I "shut" the air control but this did nothing really as the stove continued to get hotter. I figured it might just be a delayed effect but it continued to rise. At this point I pulled a handful or Roxul insulation from a spare bag and stuffed some pieced into the front air intake, or what I thought to be the front air intake. After about 30 minutes the temps stopped rising and slowly started to drop. I waited until things stabilized and then went to bed. In the morning, almost no coals left and stove was about 150F. I'm not sure if I actually did "block" the air, or if this was going to happen anyway and was just coincidence. Since then I've just been building smaller fires and reloading them more often. It seems the air control actually works when I run the stove like this.

2. Maybe this has something to do with problem 1, maybe not, but I can't seem to get the rated 12 hours out of this stove no matter what I try. The previous owners left about 1 cord of what appears to be dry hardwood, definitely some oak in there too. The wood feels dry, lights easily and doesn't steam much if at all. Unfortunately this is all based on opinion since my moisture meter is packed away into a box somewhere. Several times now I've reloaded the stove around 11PM and the following morning at 7 there's just a few coals left. Pretty much the same story as above. Maybe the real issue here is the BK we heated with previous. On normal days (highs ~30, lows ~ 10) it would go 12 hours easily, 16 with the right wood/splits. That was using 2 year stacked/covered hardwood.

Any thoughts on the above? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[blacktail]

It might help to turn it down sooner and in stages. Or try a pipe damper.

 

[weatherguy]

This is a whole different stove than the other two you burned, the Lopi's run hotter, try bigger splits and turning it down quicker.

 

[Sodbuster]

Single or double wall pipe? 550 -625 would be way too hot for a double wall pipe, mine rarely goes above 250 on the outside of a double wall pipe. I had a Lopi Liberty insert for a while and loved it. It takes a while to learn how to run a new stove, there's definitely a learning curve, each stove is different, and even the same stove can be different depending on the size and type of wood being burned. When you say the temps kept rising, what was the highest temp you recorded, after all with the firebox full that's what you want unless you are in over-fire land which I would say is around 800 for that stove. Were your splits pretty big or were they smaller, smaller splits will run away on you much easier.

 

[Shmudda]

I've been running a Liberty since February 1997 so I know these stoves quite well. One question I have on the install is can you open the bypass on the right side of the stove without hitting the wall? Seems very close. Also, your 600 deg stack temps are way to high and you are throwing BTU's up the stack and not heating the stove properly. What year is this stove you have?

First up, you will never get a 12 hour burn, it just won't happen so don't even try. To run the stove efficiently you need two thermometers one on the stack like you have and another directly behind that red pot on the slanted face. The typical cruising temps for this stove is a stack temp of about 300 and a stove temp of 500 to 600. If you run a blower you might subtract 100 to 150 off the stove temp, but the stack temp should remain the same.

You say the air cannot be regulated and it just keeps getting hotter? Have you checked your door and window gaskets? My hunch is they are both shot and need replaced. You can choke the air down all you want by pulling the bottom rod out but if the gaskets are shot allowing air in its a moot point. Also, if you take the handle nut off on the inside and remove the cam dog there should be washers behind there that you can remove. Once removed it will allow the door to fit tighter against the stove giving you a better seal.

How's the interior condition of the stove? Are there cracks in the backside air chambers? I bet there are as most do. Those are nothing to worry about they will only affect the secondary burn tubes on the top of the stove slightly. How is the structural steel on the interior top holding the firebrick up? Is it burnt and flaking apart or sagging? If it I then that could be a problem with it running away on you too. I made some drawings of those if you are interested, much cheaper to get a local fab shop to make them than buy from Travis Industries. Shoot me an email if interested: [email protected] and I will send them to you

Send me any other questions and I'll answer them too

Craig

 

[Shmudda]

One other observation. Your door handle is not closed the whole way and tight. If that's all the further it closes then you need to really check your door seal as its not right. Maybe someone removed the washers as I described above and totally smashed the door seal flat. Replace both door and window gaskets and add the washers back behind the latch dog get the door handle closing properly pointing straight down or slightly to the left. Sometimes you just need to start over and I believe this is where you are currently at

Craig

 

[lopiliberty]

First up, you will never get a 12 hour burn, it just won't happen so don't even try.

I get 12+ hours. Load up around 8pm and then again around 9am. But I guess it depends on wood and heat load for the house

 

[lopiliberty]

As said above I would defiantly replace the gaskets and check the door latch and get a stove top thermometer. I'm betting if the flue temp was 625 you were getting close to 800 if not over on the stove top. Maybe post some pics of the fire box so we can see what condition it's in

 

[Highbeam]

I get 12+ hours. Load up around 8pm and then again around 9am. But I guess it depends on wood and heat load for the house

Different people define burn time VERY differently. Some are flat out nuts with their definitions!

I would be surprised if you couldn't get a relight from coals, no matches, after 12 hours if you were trying for a long burn by packing the stove full of a species with some ash (not doug fir) and ran it as low as possible while being clean.

 

[begreen]

I get 12+ hours. Load up around 8pm and then again around 9am. But I guess it depends on wood and heat load for the house

11-12hrs. is our normal burn cycle during mild weather. During cold weather it could be half that amount due to the high heat loss of our old house with too many windows.

 

[Shmudda]

My definition of burn time is when the stove is actually throwing "heat", not a few coals and heading into a relight. Can I get a relight after 12 hours, yes, if I had put two Locust LOGS in the thing that take up the whole firebox and turn it down quite a bit. Again, different species of wood determine what you get. I burn as large logs and splits as I can fit in the firebox, keeping the smaller stuff for relights or when I know I only have an hour or so before turndown for the night.

It's a great stove, and very clean burning if properly maintained and operated correctly. I just believe the manufacturer just over plays their advertising in my opinion.

Craig

 

[begreen]

As noted in other threads, it comes down to the time between reloads to keep the house at a comfortable temperature.

 

[rdust]

My Lopi Endeavor(smaller version of the Liberty) was a great stove little stove. It like to run hot though, it wasn’t uncommon for it to zoom up to mid 700s uncontrollably and cook me out of the stove room. I tried a pipe damper on mine and it helped some but the wife had zero interest in something else to deal with.

After 2 seasons of that I installed my BK Princess and never looked back.

 

[fespo]

How tall is the flue and what size? I had a Liberty and never could get the flue to run cool, I tried everything you can think of. Flue damper helped but not 100%.

 

[Shimanok2]

Sorry everyone, apparently my email notifications got turned off so this whole time I thought this thread was never responded to. I'll try to respond the best I can to everyone's comments and questions.

I've messed around with the reloading process a little more in the past week+ and think I've got it down. Since both of the previous stoves I had featured double wall pipe from the stove to the thimble it made it difficult to get an exact read on the actual flue temps. This stove does have single wall instead so it a way it's better because I can measure the temps easier. What I've found to work the best is raking the coals out, loading the stove with 3-4 larger splits and then letting it burn with the door cracked until the pipe temp is around 550-600. I then close the door, let it burn a little longer until the pipe temp start going up more and then I close the bypass. The stovepipe then levels off and after a couple minutes begins to drop. I then run it wide open for a few more minutes before closing the air intake some. With the stovepipe in the 500deg range if I close the bypass the temps start dropping immediately and will eventually drop below 300 no matter what I do. It seems to like that 600+ range for closing up. Unfortunately at those temps it's easier for the stove to run away so I have to be very careful after the pipe temps hit 500. Before my original post I did see pipe temps around 750 and didn't really like it.

As for the chimney, it's a 2 story, center chimney, with maybe a 6 pitch roof, so the chimney height should be pretty common to most 2 story houses.

The door gasket was replaced and I left the washers in. It shuts very well now and passes the dollar bill test.

Regarding burn time I think doing the above has made it better. Not sure why, but I can get 10 hours of heat out of the stove. As mentioned a few times, it's no BK or even a Woodstock. I'll likely be heading back to one of those for next winter as the wife really doesn't like this stove and already wants a new one. One of the few times I enjoy complying with her demands...

Thanks again for all of your input!

 

[TradEddie]

If you need the door cracked and the bypass open to get a restart, then I think either the primary air control is broken, or much more likely, you've got unseasoned wood. It's unusual nobody's suggested this already, it's the cause of most problems. Recently, my wood supply has run low so I'm burning oak that was split in April 2017, almost two years ago, yet if that was my only experience with my Lopi, I'd be here looking for advice too. From experience, I know that all I need to do is wait till next Winter, and all that oak will be just ideal, all my problems will go away. With really dry wood, I can pull that air control to the fully closed position, sit back and enjoy the heat. With 1.5yr seasoned oak, I struggle to get it up to working temperature, and need to keep the air 50% open to keep it there.

TE

 

[Shimanok2]

I know some of the splits aren't the best but others seem to light fine and don't hiss at all. I'm still going through boxes from the move and of course can't find my moisture meter. I'm sure it'll be in the last box I go through.

Included with the house was a very large pile of long length wood, likely over 10 cords.My plan was to cut that this spring for 2 + years out and also try to find some seasoned stuff that I can stack out in the sun to burn this next winter. In our last house I was 2+ years ahead and it worked great. Getting back there will take some time and effort though.

 

[brickie]

The difference between 24% and 18% is night and day with my Endeavour.
You should check your wood moisture content.

 

[Highbeam]

Before my original post I did see pipe temps around 750 and didn't really like it.

I wouldn't either! That is way over the 1000 degree maximum continuous rating for class A pipe. You're cooking along at 1500 degrees inside. I don't want to see anything over 450 on the skin of my single wall.

 

[Woody Stover]

You might experiment with where you put the coals when starting a new load. On one stove I ran, I would run the coals N-S in a line, in the center floor of the box. That way, I got less wood burning at the start, the stove would burn at a lower temp, and longer. Whether you can do this, and still get the flue temps you need to not stall the stove, is going to depend on how dry your wood is...

 

[TradEddie]

The difference between 24% and 18% is night and day with my Endeavour.

Same with my Lopi Freedom. It's not simply that 20% is some convenient round number along a continuum of gradually improving performance, something really dramatic happens about 20%, maybe the exact "magic number" depends on wood species, stove design, or install, but it's real and it matters. The oak I talked about above is 22% on a fresh split at room temperature, and while it gives out heat and isn't producing too much creosote, it is simply disappointing compared with what I know oak can do.

TE

 

[Shmudda]

Shimanok you are concentrating on stack temps way to much when you should be most worried about stove temperature. All you are doing is throwing the BTU's up the chimney. Get that second temp gauge on that slanted top and work them both together like I described in my fist answer to this thread

Craig