New house & Sirocco 30

rybern

New Member
Aug 21, 2018
49
NE Alabama
Hey guys,

Our house is getting closer to complete. 2000 sqft single level, insulated with R15 Rockwool in walls and R38 cellulose in ceiling. We're in the Northern part of Zone 3 here in N Alabama.

We are about to order our Sirocco 30 and stove pipe. Chimney is in and will have about 16'-18' of 6" double wall Duravent stove and chimney pipe.

We have a 4 ton heat pump and plan to use the SC30 as supplemental when the temp stays down in the 30's or below. Based on the house plan I have attached, do you think we should spend $300 on the fan kit? I added an outlet right behind the stove location in case we do but I'm not convinced that we need it. I don't want to get it if we never turn it on. It's my understanding that the new SC30 comes with the convection deck.

Thanks for your help.
 

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Rickb

Minister of Fire
Oct 24, 2012
989
St.Louis
I can tell you on the 2.0 version I use the fan for 1 hour every time I start the stove to get the room up to temp.... That said the stove is on low and the fan is just a bit above the lowest it will run.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
Hey guys,

Our house is getting closer to complete. 2000 sqft single level, insulated with R15 Rockwool in walls and R38 cellulose in ceiling. We're in the Northern part of Zone 3 here in N Alabama.

We are about to order our Sirocco 30 and stove pipe. Chimney is in and will have about 16'-18' of 6" double wall Duravent stove and chimney pipe.

We have a 4 ton heat pump and plan to use the SC30 as supplemental when the temp stays down in the 30's or below. Based on the house plan I have attached, do you think we should spend $300 on the fan kit? I added an outlet right behind the stove location in case we do but I'm not convinced that we need it. I don't want to get it if we never turn it on. It's my understanding that the new SC30 comes with the convection deck.

Thanks for your help.
I would get it yes. They really help extract more heat
 

rybern

New Member
Aug 21, 2018
49
NE Alabama
I can tell you on the 2.0 version I use the fan for 1 hour every time I start the stove to get the room up to temp.... That said the stove is on low and the fan is just a bit above the lowest it will run.
Please elaborate on this a bit if you don't mind.
 

wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
Interesting question.

Personally, I'm biased against paying $300 for a fan when a $20 box fan does the job better and with a lot more flexibility,. I've often found fans on gas stoves to be noisy and hard to get access to to clean, which is important, although I'm told this is less of a pain on many wood stoves.

One thing I'd do is to go to the shop where you are buying your stove and ask the sales rep to show you how to remove and clean the fan -I've long thought that would be an amusing thing to watch, except that next time it would be YOU trying to do that!

So I suggest that you can do the same thing with an inexpensive box fan, except to have a lot more flexibility in how you use it.

For example, in my ranch style house bedrooms and bathrooms are down a hall and away from the stove. I can sit the fan on the floor in the hallway and blow cool air near the floor out towards the stove, which sucks heated warm air near the ceiling down into the bedrooms. Try doing that with a fan on the stove! A fan located pretty much anywhere breaks up the stratified layers of warm and cool air characteristic of the spot heating of a wood stove.

I might add that I've been using my wood stove since 1987, so I have a measure of experience with the issue.
 
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moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
901
Iowa
As a Scirocco owner it is my opinion that you will definitely appreciate the fan kit. I ran my stove without the fans for a week or so after I installed it. I wasn't sure if the stove was going to do the job. When my fan kit arrived I installed it. It is a relatively simple procedure. The kit made a world of difference circulating heat. My fans are not used all of the time and when I do run them it is usually at a very low setting. However when it gets very cold or I have let the house cool below my comfort zone I use the fans to circulate the heat and they work very well to get the place warmed back up.
As mentioned already a small box fan sitting in the coldest part of the house blowing cool dense air towards the stove works good for me also. The cool air displaces the warm air and gets the heat circulating nicely. The fan kit is money well spent in my opinion.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
Interesting question.

Personally, I'm biased against paying $300 for a fan when a $20 box fan does the job better and with a lot more flexibility,. I've often found fans on gas stoves to be noisy and hard to get access to to clean, which is important, although I'm told this is less of a pain on many wood stoves.

One thing I'd do is to go to the shop where you are buying your stove and ask the sales rep to show you how to remove and clean the fan -I've long thought that would be an amusing thing to watch, except that next time it would be YOU trying to do that!

So I suggest that you can do the same thing with an inexpensive box fan, except to have a lot more flexibility in how you use it.

For example, in my ranch style house bedrooms and bathrooms are down a hall and away from the stove. I can sit the fan on the floor in the hallway and blow cool air near the floor out towards the stove, which sucks heated warm air near the ceiling down into the bedrooms. Try doing that with a fan on the stove! A fan located pretty much anywhere breaks up the stratified layers of warm and cool air characteristic of the spot heating of a wood stove.

I might add that I've been using my wood stove since 1987, so I have a measure of experience with the issue.
And how will the box fan blow air through the convective heat shields pulling more heat off the stove? A box fan can be a useful tool but it does a completely different job than the fan designed to work with the stove.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,217
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Interesting question.

Personally, I'm biased against paying $300 for a fan when a $20 box fan does the job better and with a lot more flexibility,. I've often found fans on gas stoves to be noisy and hard to get access to to clean, which is important, although I'm told this is less of a pain on many wood stoves.

One thing I'd do is to go to the shop where you are buying your stove and ask the sales rep to show you how to remove and clean the fan -I've long thought that would be an amusing thing to watch, except that next time it would be YOU trying to do that!

So I suggest that you can do the same thing with an inexpensive box fan, except to have a lot more flexibility in how you use it.

For example, in my ranch style house bedrooms and bathrooms are down a hall and away from the stove. I can sit the fan on the floor in the hallway and blow cool air near the floor out towards the stove, which sucks heated warm air near the ceiling down into the bedrooms. Try doing that with a fan on the stove! A fan located pretty much anywhere breaks up the stratified layers of warm and cool air characteristic of the spot heating of a wood stove.

I might add that I've been using my wood stove since 1987, so I have a measure of experience with the issue.
300$? Is that what they really cost on this stove or are you just assuming? My fans weren't that expensive but it was 7 years ago.
 

wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
And how will the box fan blow air through the convective heat shields pulling more heat off the stove? A box fan can be a useful tool but it does a completely different job than the fan designed to work with the stove.

I use mine to blow air across the face of the stove which is a source of radiant heat. Blowing additional air across the face cools the stove by convection . I usually use this method when the stove is hot ---- 400-700 degrees. That seems to help increase convection heating of air by forcing more air past the stove, just as a built in fan does. Usually just a low speed fan setting is all I use, although at 700 degrees a medium speed may be selected.

Temperatures are measured using a probe thermometer mounted in the stove pipe about three feet above the stove.

Right now the fan is about 6-7 feet away from the stove, at an angle to the front of the stove.

I primarily use this technique when the stove is quite hot because if I use it at lower temperatures, I find that it cools off the stove too much, impairing combustion and tending to cause a rapid decline in temperature. So for me, this method provides the same effect as a built in fan, albeit one that I control manually.

Not a problem for me, though, since I'm a firebug at heart and just love playing around with the stove this way.

So I continue to argue for the merits of box fans and against built in stove fans. My style works for me, unless you can suggest improvements I haven't thought of, which I would be glad to hear. .
 
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wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
300$? Is that what they really cost on this stove or are you just assuming?

That's the figure given in the opening post of this thread.


I will point out that a box fan can be purchased for $20 or less and used to experiment with. If you find that this provides a satisfactory solution, you need go no farther. If you want to buy the high priced spread, you can choose to do that and use the box fan for other purposes.

Why not try the cheap solution first, I ask?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
I use mine to blow air across the face of the stove which is a source of radiant heat. Blowing additional air across the face cools the stove by convection . I usually use this method when the stove is hot ---- 400-700 degrees. That seems to help increase convection heating of air by forcing more air past the stove, just as a built in fan does. Usually just a low speed fan setting is all I use, although at 700 degrees a medium speed may be selected.

I primarily use this technique when the stove is quite hot because if I use it at lower temperatures, I find that it cools off the stove too much, impairing combustion and tending to cause a rapid decline in temperature. So for me, this method provides the same effect as a built in fan, albeit one that I control manually.

Niot a problem for me, though, since I'm a firebug at heart and just love playing around with the stove this way.

So I continue to argue for the merits of box fans and against built in stove fans. My style works for me, unless you can suggest improvements I haven't thought of, which I would be glad to hear. .
But does your stove have heat sheilds that block radiant heat and block the air from your fan like the stove in question does?
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
That's the figure given in the opening post of this thread.


I will point out that a box fan can be purchased for $20 or less and used to experiment with. If you find that this provides a satisfactory solution, you need go no farther. If you want to buy the high priced spread, you can choose to do that and use the box fan for other purposes.

Why not try the cheap solution first, I ask?
How much experience do you have using a box fan with a modern sheilded stove vs one with the built in fan? Again a box fan can certainly be a useful tool but it does a completely different job than the fan attached to the stove.

The box fan helps circulate heat while the stove fan helps extract heat.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,217
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
That's the figure given in the opening post of this thread.


I will point out that a box fan can be purchased for $20 or less and used to experiment with. If you find that this provides a satisfactory solution, you need go no farther. If you want to buy the high priced spread, you can choose to do that and use the box fan for other purposes.

Why not try the cheap solution first, I ask?
Sure! You can always use the box fan later or add the optional stove fans later.

If you need to purchase either rear heat shields or fans for a clearance reduction then the shield purchase might be wasted if you later decide to get fans.
 
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wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
But does your stove have heat sheilds that block radiant heat and block the air from your fan like the stove in question does?

Not from the front, where the glass is.

That's the surface I use the fan to blow across. No different than what a fireplace fan does, which is to blow room air inside the heat shield and across the radiant portion of the firebox.

But it doesn't really matter whether you blow that air across the radiant front of the radiant back of a stove.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
Not from the front, where the glass is.

That's the surface I use the fan to blow across. No different than what a fireplace fan does, which is to blow room air inside the heat shield and across the radiant portion of the firebox.

But it doesn't really matter whether you blow that air across the radiant front of the radiant back of a stove.
Again what experience are you basing this opinion on? I have done it both ways and there is no comparison
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
Not from the front, where the glass is.

That's the surface I use the fan to blow across. No different than what a fireplace fan does, which is to blow room air inside the heat shield and across the radiant portion of the firebox.

But it doesn't really matter whether you blow that air across the radiant front of the radiant back of a stove.
The biggest difference is with a stove mounted stove the heat radiated out the back and a portion off the top is converted to convective heat while not interfering with the heat radiating off the front into the room. In your case you are saying heat from the front which would end up in the room regardless while letting the back radiate into the wall behind the stove.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,626
Southern IN
You shouldn't need a fan for the 30-box, in a single-level 2000 sq.ft. house in AL.
 

Bartman23

New Member
Jan 26, 2019
18
Manitoba canada
My price here in canada was 500$ from the dealer for the fan kit which I thought was fairly steep. I'm sure the fan kit would be much more beneficial but for now I just use 2 ecofans that cost me 1/5 of the price for the pair.
 

wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
The biggest difference is with a stove mounted stove the heat radiated out the back and a portion off the top is converted to convective heat while not interfering with the heat radiating off the front into the room. In your case you are saying heat from the front which would end up in the room regardless while letting the back radiate into the wall behind the stove.

With the use of a stove mounted fan, you are cooling off the back of the stove by directing larger volumes of room air against the hot combustion chamber. The additional heat extracted is additional warm air.

By directing the box fan to blow against the front of the stove, I am cooling off the front of the stove by directing larger volumes of room air against the hot combustion chamber. The additional heat extracted is additional warm air.

In short, it doesn't matter whether room air is blown against the front or the back of the stove. The basic result is the same: the stove is cooled off more than it would be without the air blown by the fan, and the additional volumes of air are heated and blown into the room air.

This is most useful when the stove is especially hot. When stove temperatures are warm or moderate, the stove has sufficient surface area to extract most or all the heat that can be spared from the combustion process. When the stove is especially hot, a lot more BTUs are being produced by combustion, but there is no greater surface area available to extract those additional BTUs of heat for the dwelling space (stove and flue temperatures increase). . By blowing room air against the hot combustion chamber, you are extracting more BTUs from the stove for the room air than would be removed without the fan. Stove and flue temperatures are thus reduced, efficiency is greater and more useful heat is circulated into the room air.

I don't see that it matters whether you blow air from the front or the back.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
With the use of a stove mounted fan, you are cooling off the back of the stove by directing larger volumes of room air against the hot combustion chamber. The additional heat extracted is additional warm air.

By directing the box fan to blow against the front of the stove, I am cooling off the front of the stove by directing larger volumes of room air against the hot combustion chamber. The additional heat extracted is additional warm air.

In short, it doesn't matter whether room air is blown against the front or the back of the stove. The basic result is the same: the stove is cooled off more than it would be without the air blown by the fan, and the additional volumes of air are heated and blown into the room air.

This is most useful when the stove is especially hot. When stove temperatures are warm or moderate, the stove has sufficient surface area to extract most or all the heat that can be spared from the combustion process. When the stove is especially hot, a lot more BTUs are being produced by combustion, but there is no greater surface area available to extract those additional BTUs of heat for the dwelling space (stove and flue temperatures increase). . By blowing room air against the hot combustion chamber, you are extracting more BTUs from the stove for the room air than would be removed without the fan. Stove and flue temperatures are thus reduced, efficiency is greater and more useful heat is circulated into the room air.

I don't see that it matters whether you blow air from the front or the back.
Again what experience do you have that you are basing your assumptions on?
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,626
Southern IN
You shouldn't need a fan for the 30-box, in a single-level 2000 sq.ft. house in AL.
What makes you say that?
Oops, I didn't see the floor plan until now. Still, the stove is centrally located, and the weather there is very mild. But, yeah, they might need the blower for the occasional cold snap. However, if they like to close their bedroom doors, they're gonna have to run the furnace anyway, or use room heaters.
I'm assuming the adults spend time mainly in the stove room in the evenings.
Screenshot_2019-02-19 huntsville,al climate - Google Search.png
 
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wooduser

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2018
680
seattle, wa
Again what experience do you have that you are basing your assumptions on?
Here's a link that gets to the issue I was discussing:

The fuel that generates heat within a wood burning stove is obviously firewood. Wood burning stoves are often less efficient when it comes to an equal balance of fuel to heat release because the outside of these types of stoves don’t typically have an efficient heat exchanger. A heat exchanger is a piece of the equipment on the stove that helps transfer heat from the stove to the rest of the room. Heat exchangers on wood burning stoves don’t have the surface area for the proper extraction and distribution of heat relative to the amount of fuel used to generate the heat. Wood stoves are much more combustion efficient then they are heat transfer efficient.

>>

https://www.highschimney.com/heat-efficiency-wood-burning-stoves-gas-stoves/



I suggest that a fan directing room air against the hot combustion chamber improves the ability to extract heat from a wood stove, especially when it's running hot. I don;t see that it would matter whether the air was directed against the hot combustion chamber at the front or the back of the stove.
 

rybern

New Member
Aug 21, 2018
49
NE Alabama
OP here. I appreciate the responses. There's a lot of great points here. We are empty nesters but we do have a habit of sleeping with doors closed. $300 seems like a lot but I can't find a cheaper place to purchase from. We are doing a corner install. I located the center of the chimney at 19" off each wall (1" greater than minimum). I was under the impression that I didn't need to add any additional clearance for the fans. Being a corner install, would it still be fairly easy to install the fan kit after the fact?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,613
central pa
Here's a link that gets to the issue I was discussing:

The fuel that generates heat within a wood burning stove is obviously firewood. Wood burning stoves are often less efficient when it comes to an equal balance of fuel to heat release because the outside of these types of stoves don’t typically have an efficient heat exchanger. A heat exchanger is a piece of the equipment on the stove that helps transfer heat from the stove to the rest of the room. Heat exchangers on wood burning stoves don’t have the surface area for the proper extraction and distribution of heat relative to the amount of fuel used to generate the heat. Wood stoves are much more combustion efficient then they are heat transfer efficient.

>>

https://www.highschimney.com/heat-efficiency-wood-burning-stoves-gas-stoves/



I suggest that a fan directing room air against the hot combustion chamber improves the ability to extract heat from a wood stove, especially when it's running hot. I don;t see that it would matter whether the air was directed against the hot combustion chamber at the front or the back of the stove.
Never mind I don't know why I bother
 
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