New Insert Instalation

[grancasa]

Hi there,

I've really enjoyed reading these forums over the past few months, and I'm finally ready to ask for some advice.

Our cooperative (read: poor) house recently came into a fireplace insert, a Glacier Bay F1. Our landlord was willing to pay for the chimney to be professionally cleaned, but that is the limit of what he will spend on this project. The cleaning went well, not much creosote, everything looked good to the sweep.

We are planning on installing the insert ourselves, and my thoughts are that most of the recommendations on this forum come from professionals worried about liability and other legal issues that don't concern us much. The fireplace that this insert was in for the past 20 years had no piping between the top of the insert and the chimney; just lots of fiberglass insulation. But almost all the advice here says to go with, at a minimum, a stainless steel liner at least part way up the chimney, and most people recommend a liner the full length of the chimney.

So my question is, what do I need to have in mind if I want to do the minimum safe installation? How deep should the insert exhaust sit in the firebox relative to the chimney (there is no damper on our fireplace)? Should all the airspace btwn the top of the insert and the top of the fireplace be filled in? What am I missing, what questions should I be asking, what else should I read? If yall could try to keep the "consult a professional" comments to a minimum, I would appreciate it, as we don't have the money to do such a thing. But, if any of you live in the Bay Area and want to set up an exchange of services (we've got body workers, talented musicians, artists and great cooks living here) please let us know.

Thanks

Chabot Co-op

 

[BrotherBart]

I burned in a similar old insert for 21 years and I am here to tell you that you need to, at a minimum, put a stainless liner in the chimney connected to the insert or junk it.

Not a sermon, just the facts.

 

[jtp10181]

Well lets assume your existing chimney is in great shape, has a fully in tact clay liner from the smoke shelf to the top, and meets NFPA211 specs for masonry chimneys.

In that situation you can do a stubby liner installation. You need 6 feet or so of flexible stainless, either 6" or 8" depending on the outlet of your insert. You also need a metal block off plate. You basically make a metal plate that fits into the smoke shelf /damper area that has 6" hole in it. You then run the stubby liner up through the hole and seal the gap with furnace cement. Hook the liner up the unit and you are all set. There should be NO fiberglass insulation anywhere. The cavity above the insert should just be dead space. The block off plate will keep the heat from going up the chimney.

 

[BrotherBart]

I just did a little online check. The Bay Area counties are going to shut you down on wood burning pretty soon anyway.

 

[RedRanger]

I just did a little online check. The Bay Area counties are going to shut you down on wood burning pretty soon anyway.

I just hate having to agree with that grumpy old man :smirk: ,but he is right,specially in your location. If you really desire to have wood heat, best you spring for a epa certified insert. and a ss liner all the way to the top. You do that, then they probably cant shut you down-otherwise????

 

[grancasa]

Thanks yall for the quick replies, and the (relative) lack of sermonizing. We're not too worried about the short arm of the law round these parts, so when those "laws" get passed we'll just do as American's have been doing since the start of this country: be disobedient.

Any creative ideas for cheap liner? Could I use the excess from an installation and get that up past the smoke shelf, and forget about the plate (I know this will leave a less than ideal air flow situation)?

 

[BrotherBart]

Thanks yall for the quick replies, and the (relative) lack of sermonizing. We're not too worried about the short arm of the law round these parts, so when those "laws" get passed we'll just do as American's have been doing since the start of this country: be disobedient.

Any creative ideas for cheap liner? Could I use the excess from an installation and get that up past the smoke shelf, and forget about the plate (I know this will leave a less than ideal air flow situation)?

In a word, NO. A large group of people dying from carbon monoxide poisoning in their sleep is not something I want to read about in the papers. And yes, I read the Oakland Trib online.

The bare fact is that if a three hundred dollar liner off of eBay and a seven dollar piece of sheet metal from Home Depot for a block off plate ain't making the budget then don't do this.

I have made more wood burning mistakes than you have had hot meals. And I don't want to see anybody else make the same ones. I got lucky.

 

[myzamboni]

I just did a little online check. The Bay Area counties are going to shut you down on wood burning pretty soon anyway.

BB, this is not an issue. My city does not allow woodstoves, but I received a variance to install one. The key is to be more knowledgeable than the municipality.

 

[myzamboni]

Thanks yall for the quick replies, and the (relative) lack of sermonizing. We're not too worried about the short arm of the law round these parts, so when those "laws" get passed we'll just do as American's have been doing since the start of this country: be disobedient.

Any creative ideas for cheap liner? Could I use the excess from an installation and get that up past the smoke shelf, and forget about the plate (I know this will leave a less than ideal air flow situation)?

In a word, NO. A large group of people dying from carbon monoxide poisoning in their sleep is not something I want to read about in the papers. And yes, I read the Oakland Trib online.

The bare fact is that if a three hundred dollar liner off of eBay and a seven dollar piece of sheet metal from Home Depot for a block off plate ain't making the budget then don't do this.

I have made more wood burning mistakes than you have had hot meals. And I don't want to see anybody else make the same ones. I got lucky.

+1. Do it right or don't do it.

 

[grancasa]

Thanks Brother. Do you feel that a liner for the whole chimney is a necessary minimum, or would a 6 foot (or 25 foot, just not to the top of our chimney) liner at the start, with a block off plate, be enough?

 

[BrotherBart]

Thanks Brother. Do you feel that a liner for the whole chimney is a necessary minimum, or would a 6 foot (or 25 foot, just not to the top of our chimney) liner at the start, with a block off plate, be enough?

You can do it that way, it is called a direct connection. The problem is that a piece of liner to do it will cost as much as a full liner kit. And after you do it you will have to drag that beast out of the fireplace every time you clean the chimney. As opposed to with the full liner you just brush the crap down into the insert and scoop it out.

Direct connect kits are only available from a few dealers and so the cost is greater than jumping on eBay and buying a full liner kit.

 

[jtp10181]

Might be able to ask a dealer for a cut-off from another install and score a free pieice of liner, or dirt cheap anyway.