New Jotul 500 install - should I put in a pipe butterfly damper?

[Wade A.]

It happens in the South. I lived in N. Jersey decades ago (Hunterdon and Essex Counties) , and I don't think it would have been possible there. I think it has a lot to do also with the density of the wood. These trees grow fast down here, with pretty wide annual growth rings. When I came to Alabama, I had to recalibrate my idea of just how old a tree of a certain size actually was. I think lots of wind exposure is probably the best indicator of how well this will work. I live in a creek bottom and I stack it under a carport where breezes from up the hill cycle back and forth all day. Still, I'm looking forward to getting ahead on my wood supply. This has been a pretty mild winter so far, so I'm optimistic that I will do that finally. The tornadoes of last April really winnowed out the trees in my neighborhood. There was literally too much wood to gather and I finally had to say "enough." I've got numerous cords just bucked to length and sitting in the yard. I split by hand, so I think I'm due to get some exercise this Spring! Beats the gym, running on a hamster wheel, and you get a work product to boot...

 

[cptoneleg]

It happens in the South. I lived in N. Jersey decades ago (Hunterdon and Essex Counties) , and I don't think it would have been possible there. I think it has a lot to do also with the density of the wood. These trees grow fast down here, with pretty wide annual growth rings. When I came to Alabama, I had to recalibrate my idea of just how old a tree of a certain size actually was. I think lots of wind exposure is probably the best indicator of how well this will work. I live in a creek bottom and I stack it under a carport where breezes from up the hill cycle back and forth all day. Still, I'm looking forward to getting ahead on my wood supply. This has been a pretty mild winter so far, so I'm optimistic that I will do that finally. The tornadoes of last April really winnowed out the trees in my neighborhood. There was literally too much wood to gather and I finally had to say "enough." I've got numerous cords just bucked to length and sitting in the yard. I split by hand, so I think I'm due to get some exercise this Spring! Beats the gym, running on a hamster wheel, and you get a work product to boot...

Matters not where you live, to check M C you must split and check, I have lots of wood, that is low on outside, but high in middle, anyway enough on that. I lived in Calara for several yrs. Wood will dry faster there, than here.

Sorry about all this I think an inline damper is a good idea, I atarted to put one in when I installed my Jotul, but didn't and havenn't needed one, but if you do it's there
the only downfall I can think of is when I clean my chimney I run the brush all the way down into the stove, couldn't do that with a damper.

 

[firefighterjake]

ahhhh... the wood what a challenge this has been. I have been burning red oak that was dropped in my yard in October - we were told it was down and split for about a year. I think is a fair estimate because i live down the street from the wood guy and his piles have been there, and he has a good reputation. However is this well seasoned wood with only a year, I am not sure. I just had one more cord delieved of oak that has been split for 15 months. The wood guy came in to look at my set up and questioned why this stove does not have a damper and thought perhaps all my heat was going up and out the chimmney. I did more research and spoke to the dealer where i bought the stove and a chimmney installer both told me this stove does not require a damper - it is desiged to work wothout one. I have not tested moisture content yet but i will be doing that once i purchase a monitor.
I have been burning daily since the weather in NE changed, but this has been a warm winter so far. It just seems like my stove likes to stay around 350 - which is not giving enough heat for my house. The house is about 2200 sq feet 2 floor colonial with a fairly open floor plan. The thermostat in the room with the stove stays between 71- 74 degrees. I door an occasion get to 500 but i cant maintain that temp. In order for me to get that temp i fill the box slide the air flow to open and open the side door a bit to get more air into the box.
I see other posts of folks not being able to get the temp down, I cant get it hot enough... The class A chimney is out side and shoots straight up with a good 3-4 foot clearance above the roof.

thoughts?

thanks for the welcome....i have been doing a lot of research on this site and it has been so helpfull

OK . . . this might have been better to start a separate thread, but I think your questions are related to the OP's first questions.

I forgot to ask . . . we are talking about the Oslo, right? If so, your set up sounds pretty much what I have in my house . . . I think I have about 20-25 feet of Class A pipe outside.

Damper . . . the dealer is right . . . unlike the old woodstoves where you used the damper to control the rate of burn modern EPA stoves often do not need a damper. Some folks install them for safety concerns or since they're used to seeing them on the stove pipe . . . and some folks install them when they have excessive drafts -- often due to long runs of pipe. I would guess that most folks here running the EPA stoves do not have or need the damper.

The wood . . . I suspect this may be part of your problem. It's good that the wood was cut and split for a fair amount of time, but in general most folks say a very dense wood like oak is best seasoned for a couple of years. Of course this is not set in stone. Some folks have been able to burn oak with just a year of seasoning. A moisture meter can tell the true story . . . or you can get an idea of what the moisture is like if you see the splits spitting and hissing moisture when you stick them on the coals.

The other part of the problem . . . the air control. If I'm reading things right you pretty much have the air control all the way open (to the right) . . . this is good to start with . . . and like you I keep the side door ajar to bring up the temp. I'm assuming the thermometer you have is on the stove itself in one of the four corners. Honestly, I mostly rely on my thermometer on my stove pipe . . . a Condar probe style thermometer which is necessary for more accurate temps (not accurate, just more accurate than a magentic thermo) on the stove pipe. Once the temps come up on either the stove or stove pipe you want to start closing down the air . . .

This may sound counter-intuitive . . . however what you are doing is closing down the volume and speed at which the air enters the stove and then goes up the chimney . . . the result (if the stove's temps are hot enough) is that as you close down the air -- start at 3/4, wait 10 minutes or so to make sure the fire doesn't splutter out and then go down to 1/2, wait and then go down to 1/4 if possible -- the stove should begin to heat up. By leaving the air all the way open and the door open you are sending a lot of that heated air right up the chimney.

Reading . . . again welcome . . . and keep reading . . . there is a wealth of information here.

Where in New England are you by the way? Not that it makes that big of a difference . . . mostly I'm just curious.

 

[semipro]

WRT the to CT's original question

I've run a Jotul Oslo for about 3 years now and had two occasions where I got nervous about excessive temps.
In both instances I was able to restrict my the outside air inlet (OAK) to get things under control.
I wouldn't mind having a flue damper but couldn't fit one in.

 

[logger]

WRT the to CT's original question

I've run a Jotul Oslo for about 3 years now and had two occasions where I got nervous about excessive temps.
In both instances I was able to restrict my the outside air inlet (OAK) to get things under control.
I wouldn't mind having a flue damper but couldn't fit one in.

I've always been under the impression that an OAK and a damper kind of contradict each other. Am I wrong in assuming this or do people use both?

 

[semipro]

WRT the to CT's original question

I've run a Jotul Oslo for about 3 years now and had two occasions where I got nervous about excessive temps.
In both instances I was able to restrict my the outside air inlet (OAK) to get things under control.
I wouldn't mind having a flue damper but couldn't fit one in.

I've always been under the impression that an OAK and a damper kind of contradict each other. Am I wrong in assuming this or do people use both?

Both control airflow through the stove, one on the inlet, one on the outlet.

A hot flue creates a vacuum in the stove. A flue damper decreases that vacuum, decreasing flow through the stove and therefore combustion.

Restricting the stove inlet (in my case a the OAK inlet), doesn't decrease the vacuum in fact it probably increases it. In any case it does decrease airflow through the stove and therefore combustion.

Its somewhat like a car. A vehicle's power output can be decreased by either a dirty air filter or clogged catalytic convertor.

 

[logger]

OK, but if one's putting in a damper because of too much draft, what would be the need of installing the OAK? Maybe Im missing something here.

I guess it's just for more precise control? Still sounds contradicting though.

 

[Dougiefreshhh]

im up in no. central CT.

 

[semipro]

OK, but if one's putting in a damper because of too much draft, what would be the need of installing the OAK? Maybe Im missing something here.

I guess it's just for more precise control? Still sounds contradicting though.

I only offered the option of using restriction at the inlet as a way to prevent/control over firing since that's the concern with the OP's installation.

If, like me, he can't or doesn't want to install a damper he has other options in case his 35 ft. flue does create too much draft.

 

[oldspark]

OK, but if one's putting in a damper because of too much draft, what would be the need of installing the OAK? Maybe Im missing something here.

I guess it's just for more precise control? Still sounds contradicting though.

Two entirely different things.

 

[oldspark]

Air going into the stove will be controlled by the primary air and secondary air on the stove not the OAK.

 

[logger]

Got it.

 

[semipro]

Air going into the stove will be controlled by the primary air and secondary air on the stove not the OAK.

If you block off the OAK inlet it will "control" the air going into the stove. A restriction anywhere in the air inlet system will limit air to the stove.

When I got my Oslo I disassembled it a bit and it appeared that air for primaries and secondaries were both sourced from the same 3" diameter inlet on the back of the stove (the one the OAK connects to).

 

[oldspark]

Air going into the stove will be controlled by the primary air and secondary air on the stove not the OAK.

If you block off the OAK inlet it will "control" the air going into the stove. A restriction anywhere in the air inlet system will limit air to the stove.

When I got my Oslo I disassembled it a bit and it appeared that air for primaries and secondaries were both sourced from the same 3" diameter inlet on the back of the stove (the one the OAK connects to).

Yes but that is not they way they are supposed to work, the stove gets all the air it needs to burn through the air inlets on the stove, not sure why you would control the air through the OAK unless you had a problem.

 

[semipro]

Air going into the stove will be controlled by the primary air and secondary air on the stove not the OAK.

If you block off the OAK inlet it will "control" the air going into the stove. A restriction anywhere in the air inlet system will limit air to the stove.

When I got my Oslo I disassembled it a bit and it appeared that air for primaries and secondaries were both sourced from the same 3" diameter inlet on the back of the stove (the one the OAK connects to).

Yes but that is not they way they are supposed to work, the stove gets all the air it needs to burn through the air inlets on the stove, not sure why you would control the air through the OAK unless you had a problem.

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

 

[oldspark]

Air going into the stove will be controlled by the primary air and secondary air on the stove not the OAK.

If you block off the OAK inlet it will "control" the air going into the stove. A restriction anywhere in the air inlet system will limit air to the stove.

When I got my Oslo I disassembled it a bit and it appeared that air for primaries and secondaries were both sourced from the same 3" diameter inlet on the back of the stove (the one the OAK connects to).

Yes but that is not they way they are supposed to work, the stove gets all the air it needs to burn through the air inlets on the stove, not sure why you would control the air through the OAK unless you had a problem.

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

I understand that but I wonder how well it would work, you restrict the air with the stove inlets as much as you can, thinking out loud here, not sure you want to restrict the air much more than that, not disagreeing just wondering.

 

[oldspark]

It's going to pull air from places you might not want it to, it will try to breathe.

 

[Oldhippie]

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

There are stoves where the primary and secondary are not directly connected, and where there is no control for secondary feed. In cases like this you can be over firing, and shut down primary air completely and still get a over-firing stove due to secondary air inlet and too much draft. Hence, a damper really helps decrease draft "pull" when you can't control the inlet "push" from the non-controllable secondary air.

 

[Oldhippie]

im up in no. central CT.

Gorgeous area! I ride my motorcycle down there a lot!

Great roads!

 

[semipro]

It's going to pull air from places you might not want it to, it will try to breathe.

Agreed, if you have a leaky stove it won't do much.

I've done it twice though when I couldn't get my Oslo under control any other way.

 

[semipro]

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

There are stoves where the primary and secondary are not directly connected, and where there is no control for secondary feed. In cases like this you can be over firing, and shut down primary air completely and still get a over-firing stove due to secondary air inlet and too much draft. Hence, a damper really helps decrease draft "pull" when you can't control the inlet "push" from the non-controllable secondary air.

The OP was referring to their Oslo which seems to draw both primary and secondary air through the air inlet on the lower back of the stove.

I agree that the flue damper decreases vacuum as I noted earlier.
However, if you don't have a flue damper, restricting the air flow into the stove will achieve the same effect.

 

[oldspark]

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

There are stoves where the primary and secondary are not directly connected, and where there is no control for secondary feed. In cases like this you can be over firing, and shut down primary air completely and still get a over-firing stove due to secondary air inlet and too much draft. Hence, a damper really helps decrease draft "pull" when you can't control the inlet "push" from the non-controllable secondary air.

The OP was referring to their Oslo which seems to draw both primary and secondary air through the air inlet on the lower back of the stove.

I agree that the flue damper decreases vacuum as I noted earlier.
However, if you don't have a flue damper, restricting the air flow into the stove will achieve the same effect.

So some of the stoves OAK's are air tight to the stove?

 

[semipro]

Other responders were advocating a flue damper to keep over-drafting in check.
I was suggesting that this could also be done by restricting the inlet if a flue damper is not installed.

There are stoves where the primary and secondary are not directly connected, and where there is no control for secondary feed. In cases like this you can be over firing, and shut down primary air completely and still get a over-firing stove due to secondary air inlet and too much draft. Hence, a damper really helps decrease draft "pull" when you can't control the inlet "push" from the non-controllable secondary air.

The OP was referring to their Oslo which seems to draw both primary and secondary air through the air inlet on the lower back of the stove.

I agree that the flue damper decreases vacuum as I noted earlier.
However, if you don't have a flue damper, restricting the air flow into the stove will achieve the same effect.

So some of the stoves OAK's are air tight to the stove?

Mine is. The connection is just a 3" diameter hole in the casting with 2 threaded holes for bolting down the adapter. I sealed the connection at the adapter with high temp silicone RTV.

If you don't have an OAK hooked up plugging the hole on the back of the Oslo will restrict combustion significantly.

Our Jotul Firelight has a similar set up but there are multiple holes that the OAK adapter connects to and I believe two other holes that the adapter does not connect to at all.

A VC Encore at a previous rental house also had a rectangular hole on the back that seemed to feed most air into the stove.

 

[Dougiefreshhh]

Yep....Granby/suffield area. North of the Quabbin along rt2 is good in my book too!