New Lopi Flush Large Next Gen

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Texas123

Member
Apr 12, 2016
137
Stephenville, TX
The problem is the flush insert. Assuming your insert had a face area of 12 square feet and a surface temperature of 700 degrees; you are emitting to the house only 8400 Btus per hour. This is like air conditioning the house with a window unit. If you have the money it is time to replace it with a extended on the hearth insert or a free standing stove. There is a reason flush inserts without the circulation fan are considered to be looking at stoves and not life or death heaters.
 

Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
The problem is the flush insert. Assuming your insert had a face area of 12 square feet and a surface temperature of 700 degrees; you are emitting to the house only 8400 Btus per hour. This is like air conditioning the house with a window unit. If you have the money it is time to replace it with a extended on the hearth insert or a free standing stove. There is a reason flush inserts without the circulation fan are considered to be looking at stoves and not life or death heaters.
 

Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
This is simply not true. I heat my 2000 sq ft house with flush insert in Connecticut without any problem. So is my son in law. Sometimes I’m heating my house to the point when my my wife wants to open the windows. Yeah , it’s not that efficient as free standing stove , but it shouldn’t be smouldering wood OP is just using wet wood . With my blower half way on and working temperature it is impossible to stay in front of it. Yeah, you need blower , bit it heats really well .
 

kborndale

Feeling the Heat
Oct 9, 2008
301
LI
Thanks I should have noted I am using a mix of pine and hardwood once the fire is underway.

Also, I checked the manual and it confirms my observations about needing lots of flame for it to burn effectively. It says:

The pilot provides a small amount of air that burns up through the fuel load providing the heat and flame needed for the secondary system to ignite. The air tubes under the baffle need to remain lit off for low burns to be effective.
 As you load your heater for a low burn, take care in placing the wood. This will affect how well your secondary system works as the wood is consumed. Do not block the pilot orifice. Stack wood so the pilot air can burn its way up between the pieces, helping your heater burn effectively throughout the low fire. This will reduce the visible emissions your heater produces and increase the amount of heat you get from the wood.



For those reasons, the type of fuel used (as opposed to moisture content) makes a big difference. More so than I expected. If I have a steady fire going, it produces more heat and secondary burn, when I am using fuel that produces high flame levels and keeps the tubes lit, than using a higher density fuel (dense hardwood) with less flame output that only results in primary burns.

So thanks to people that posted here and suggested looking into the fuel issues first.

But, I am still underwhelmed by overall heat output and still hoping the block off plate/insulation will improve it to the level I was hoping for.

Dude, your pine is burning better because it is dryer. Pine drys much quicker than hardwood. This isn't rocket science. It's quite simple. If your hardwood was as dry as the pine it would burn the same as the pine, just longer and giving off more btu's. It's just the way it is.
 

Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
If it is not clear already, the wood is dry. I don’t know how many times I need to say this.
I promise, I won’t bother you anymore. It seems like you put a lot of research into your project. Can you tell us , based on what research, measurements , facts, assumptions etc you know that your wood is dry.
Dry means less than 20 percent on the fresh split, not to touch ,by the way.
 

Woodsplitter67

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2017
1,959
Woolwich nj
If it is not clear already, the wood is dry. I don’t know how many times I need to say this.
ok.. .. please post the moisture content of the wood tested.. what is the MC of the pine VS the hardwoods your burning. What moisture meter are your using. How are you testing the wood.. please explain..
 
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kborndale

Feeling the Heat
Oct 9, 2008
301
LI
If it is not clear already, the wood is dry. I don’t know how many times I need to say this.

How did you come to this determination? Cause everything points towards your wood not being dry but you have not let us know how you determined your wood was dry. Did you split the wood and stack it over a year ago? (some species take longer). If not than you need to check it with a moisture meter. Give me something more than it's dry cause I've heard that a hundred times and it usually isn't true.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,620
South Puget Sound, WA
The problem is the flush insert. Assuming your insert had a face area of 12 square feet and a surface temperature of 700 degrees; you are emitting to the house only 8400 Btus per hour
That's a flawed premise, it only includes the heat radiated from the face of the insert. It does not include the surface area of the entire convection jacket, nor the velocity of air traveling over the surface of the stove inside the convection jacket. The instrumented, EPA tests for this insert showed a range of 10,710 to 57,628 BTUs/hr. With a full load of truly seasoned hardwood, it is capable of much higher peak output if pushed.
 
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Silversniper

New Member
Jul 11, 2021
32
Australia
Just before I post photos, do I need to prove anything else? Is it possible that people will claim I don’t own a stove or that my matches aren’t matches? Please let me know all the things I need to prove so that I can deal with them all in one go.
 

kborndale

Feeling the Heat
Oct 9, 2008
301
LI
Just before I post photos, do I need to prove anything else? Is it possible that people will claim I don’t own a stove or that my matches aren’t matches? Please let me know all the things I need to prove so that I can deal with them all in one go.


Your word is good enough for me, you have yet to say how you determined the wood was dry, give me a reasonable determination and I will believe you.
 

Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
Your word is good enough for me, you have yet to say how you determined the wood was dry, give me a reasonable determination and I will believe you.
LOL, I watching this thread just for the fun.
It's been 88 posts and most of them, people whos been burning for years, asking the new guy about MC number. And he repeats: "it's dry, I know it". Without any explanation.

It's like your Doctor asking you to do simple bloodwork to start and see basic numbers and you say -" No need, I know its good, trust me. Let's start with Full-body CT scan, MRI, colonoscopy, gastro endoscopy, and explorative surgery.
 

Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
Please post the mc of the wood...
Let me answer for the guy. "The wood is dry, I think I need to insulate the chimney, extend it, install block off plate and change my burning technique"

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

Woodsplitter67

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2017
1,959
Woolwich nj
Just before I post photos, do I need to prove anything else? Is it possible that people will claim I don’t own a stove or that my matches aren’t matches? Please let me know all the things I need to prove so that I can deal with them all in one go.
Just a heads up ... Back on june 11th I suggested that you check the moisture of the wood your burning. Its 2 months later and you still haven't posted the moisture of the wood your using. Other members and I have asked you multiple times, your telling us the wood is dry with out actually checking it. As I posted back in June... Your making this as difficult as possible.. You couldn't be making this any harder than what your doing..
 

Silversniper

New Member
Jul 11, 2021
32
Australia
Ok here are some pics. First the hardwood - mainly around 8% on the inside but I have shown a range of readings.

This is all true hardwood, and in many cases impossible to split with an axe.

7E22DDCA-19C9-473E-BE76-5665033CE063.jpeg 5F986808-4DE1-4D80-B36C-80552049AC5B.jpeg 9879194B-653E-4C77-948C-D808BAE04099.jpeg
 
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Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT
Ok, I don't know what to say. I never saw wood this dry in my life. With wood this dry you should be having problem with over firing and getting fire under control.
Just out of curiosity. For how long it was dried outside. Was it cut dead? Are you in a desert area? Can you elaborate a little?
Here in CT, USA I'm licky if my OAK gets under 20% in 2-3 years. And you have 7 to 12 or so.
 
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Dmitry

Minister of Fire
Oct 4, 2014
1,053
CT

Woodsplitter67

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2017
1,959
Woolwich nj
so. Im in NJ... I just pulled a pice of wood from my stack.. its from 2018.. Its .07% but I didnt split it and test on a fresh face.. it will be 15% or so inside.. looks like you are just testing the outside.. not the inside of the split 20210814_080020.jpg