New member needing guidance...

[zephyr0512]

Hey all! I’m new here, first time posting. My husband and I (me really) could use some guidance on a new fireplace/wood burining stove set up. I have read several post, but there’s so much info here I really don't know where to anchor in. We're military and have been moving a LOT, but we bought a home YAY! (2100 sq’) and will soon be ready to do up the fireplace. Three years in Alaska and three in Ohio sitting in front of a nice toasty fireplace and out in the yard in front of a firepit has me addicted to fireplaces and pits. I’ve stayed in so many cabins with wood buring stoves that I do not think I could ever live without one, well I don’t want to.

The house has a fireplace insert, which originally was wood burning, but my husband had gas run to it and bought one of those gas log kits at Lowes ($250) and put in mainly for ambiance and slight warmth, and because at the time we rarely had time to get wood and use it. We were going overseas and wanted something easy to enjoy on back and forth trips (only made it home once), but we will be returning home in three months and we (I WANT IT ASAP!) want to begin my fireplace remodel, and I want a really good wood buring stove. Left to hubby, we’d just have a pit in the front yard, and, he’d likely pour mogas on it to light it!

The fireplace has a huge chase, you could literally stand 4-5 full grown men around inside the chase on the back side with atleast 10-12” of spacing on the sides. The flue runs straight up through the attic and the house is a single story with low gable end roof, so easy access. From inside the attic area I can look down into the chase and see everything, the stud walls, sheetrock, the straps and flue and the back sides of the brick facade walls. There is a brick hearth with brick walls on the front and back, the front being the den and back the living room, and the fireplace sits up about 12” off the main floor on a solid cement foundation. The insert is all metal, no fire bricks, suxs. There’s a lot of waisted space for this thing and I want to redo the entire thing, maybe even taking down the wall that seperates the den from the LR (with fireplace in the middle) and having a free standing stove that can be enjoyed from all around, like an open concept deal; this is exciting!

I’m not sure what questions to ask, except the obvious, 1) should I do a freestanding stove, or should I leave the chase and install the stove inside, what would work best? My husband can (and he will if tell him to) take down the wall. He can remove the insert, and he can clean up his mess.

What's the best stove, for freestanding use, for insert use?

Is there a double side stove, and if so who makes the best one? It would really be cool to have double fronts, so I can use and see it from both LR and den, should we leave the chase. Hm? Can we do like a half chase, leaving like a box like look with the flue running up and out and into the ceiling?

What’s a soap box stove? IDK? I just saw one on Pinterest and it said these are the best. Are they? They look huge and expensive.

I’m certain there’s a lot I’m not considering or even thinking about that I need to first, but I’m not sure what this would be. So, I’ll wait to hear back from anyone that can guide me in/us in this development process. We’re stuck here in Japan for the next three more months due to this CCP-crap, so this is a good time for me to start getting things lined up for my fireplace redo. Well, our redo.

Thanks all!

Look forward to gettin it built!

Zephyr

 

[begreen]

Welcome. It sounds like what is existing is a zero-clearance fireplace. An insert is something that goes into (inserts) into a fireplace. Can you post a few pictures of what is now in the house and of the chase. That will help us see what you are seeing. Also, is there a budget?

 

[kennyp2339]

First of all, thank you to you and your husband for your dedicated service. Like @begreen has stated, it sounds like you have a zero clearance fireplace. First thing to check is to insure that you have a class a chimney vs a air cooled chimney specifically designed and approved for that open burn fireplace, there is also a chimney liner kit available.
There is an insert that has been tested an approved for certain zero clearance units made by Lopi that can work, you will have to confirm first that your existing model is ul127 compliant and that it can fit the unit, I think there are 2 sizes available
below is the link for the medium insert: Medium Flush Wood NexGen-Fyre™ Rect. | Steel Wood Fireplace Inserts | Lopi Stoves®

 

[bholler]

First of all, thank you to you and your husband for your dedicated service. Like @begreen has stated, it sounds like you have a zero clearance fireplace. First thing to check is to insure that you have a class a chimney vs a air cooled chimney specifically designed and approved for that open burn fireplace, there is also a chimney liner kit available.
There is an insert that has been tested an approved for certain zero clearance units made by Lopi that can work, you will have to confirm first that your existing model is ul127 compliant and that it can fit the unit, I think there are 2 sizes available
below is the link for the medium insert: Medium Flush Wood NexGen-Fyre™ Rect. | Steel Wood Fireplace Inserts | Lopi Stoves®

And that the fireplace allows for inserts to be installed in it

 

[kennyp2339]

And that the fireplace allows for inserts to be installed in it

I'm glad you chimed in on that, when I was reading the product installation manual, the language led me to believe that as long as the existing unit was ul127 listed that it met the basic guidelines for the lopi to be installed into it, more less I'm under the assumption that the actual baseline test that lopi used in certification was a minimum standard of the ul listing.

 

[bholler]

I'm glad you chimed in on that, when I was reading the product installation manual, the language led me to believe that as long as the existing unit was ul127 listed that it met the basic guidelines for the lopi to be installed into it, more less I'm under the assumption that the actual baseline test that lopi used in certification was a minimum standard of the ul listing.

It meets the guidelines for lopi yes. But lopi cannot over ride the manual for a different ul listed appliance. So if the fireplace says it can't be done in the manual it can't be done.

 

[kennyp2339]

It meets the guidelines for lopi yes. But lopi cannot over ride the manual for a different ul listed appliance. So if the fireplace says it can't be done in the manual it can't be done.

I totally understand what your saying, no doubt, but I also think that the manufacturer is trying to meet a certain specific guidelines to sell product, I think I'm going to email the company directly and ask my question to them.
The reason why I'm being persistent is that if I was a zero clearance fire place maker and went through the riggers of getting my product certified to UL127 say back in 2005, then went out of business in 2008, I would think that if another company found a way to retrofit my product and have it certified under the basis of an across the board ul test that it would be a form of indemnification and that the insert manufacturer would assume responsibility as long as the product was installed according to the instructions that the test was based off of. If I'm correct it good, but its also crazy to see a large company take on such a responsibility for many different existing units out in the field, which in itself, makes me think your also correct to.

 

[bholler]

I totally understand what your saying, no doubt, but I also think that the manufacturer is trying to meet a certain specific guidelines to sell product, I think I'm going to email the company directly and ask my question to them.
The reason why I'm being persistent is that if I was a zero clearance fire place maker and went through the riggers of getting my product certified to UL127 say back in 2005, then went out of business in 2008, I would think that if another company found a way to retrofit my product and have it certified under the basis of an across the board ul test that it would be a form of indemnification and that the insert manufacturer would assume responsibility as long as the product was installed according to the instructions that the test was based off of. If I'm correct it good, but its also crazy to see a large company take on such a responsibility for many different existing units out in the field, which in itself, makes me think your also correct to.

The only way these can be certified are as a whole new zc unit. Meaning test that specific insert in that specific fireplace with that chimney and a specific liner. There is no way to do a blanket listing simply because that listing doesn't exist.

 

[zephyr0512]

Welcome. It sounds like what is existing is a zero-clearance fireplace. An insert is something that goes into (inserts) into a fireplace. Can you post a few pictures of what is now in the house and of the chase. That will help us see what you are seeing. Also, is there a budget?

So, 6 am here in Japan…just saw these posts.
Ok, so a zero-clearance fireplace, which is still not a real fireplace though, right? I mean it’s a kit with metal panels screwed into the wall studs. There are no fire bricks and mortar, like a traditional fireplace. My husband felt it too flimsy o use with real wood, thus the gas log kit. The previous owners, an elderly couple (retired Navy Officers) used the fireplace as is, with real wood, on a regular basis, so we were told by their family members. I thought, and still think, it’s fine to use, although very inefficient, and I admit not as nice as a real brick and mortar fireplace.
Here’s some pic’s, most prior to us moving in. A few of where my husband built a patio with “his” fireplace…pit, right in the front yard! He say’s it makes him feel like being back in Alaska, so.

 

[zephyr0512]

First of all, thank you to you and your husband for your dedicated service. Like @begreen has stated, it sounds like you have a zero clearance fireplace. First thing to check is to insure that you have a class a chimney vs a air cooled chimney specifically designed and approved for that open burn fireplace, there is also a chimney liner kit available.
There is an insert that has been tested an approved for certain zero clearance units made by Lopi that can work, you will have to confirm first that your existing model is ul127 compliant and that it can fit the unit, I think there are 2 sizes available
below is the link for the medium insert: Medium Flush Wood NexGen-Fyre™ Rect. | Steel Wood Fireplace Inserts | Lopi Stoves®

Thank you! We were both born and raised in a strong military family, it’s our life.

I really don't know the difference between a “class A or air cooled chimney”, so I guess I have more research to do, first. As for the liner kit. I’m not so sure this id the direction I want to go in, though the Lopi inserts look very nice. I wonder if they have a double sided, or two sided, so we can have it facing into the LR and Den? Can’t find one on their sight, so likely not.

 

[zephyr0512]

I don’t have any pics which shows the UL #, and we’re not there, so. Here’s a few more pic’s from the attic, if this helps the visual. The chase is really big, as I mentioned. It is a huge wastes of floor space inside the house. The insulation is no longer there as my husband removed all the insulation in the roof and had the house foam sprayed, which has really improved the climate control of the house. He climbed down into the chase and stood there (wished I had a pic of this) and told me that 3 more people could easily stand in there with him, side by side.

 

[begreen]

Yes, this is a ZeroClearance fireplace. The insulation around the chimney and that has fallen on top of the stove is a red-flag, especially if it is blown-in cellulose. Based on what you are saying. it sounds like you would just like to tear it all out. That's fine as long as it isn't structural. There are not a lot of double-sided stoves sold in the US. Supreme is probably your best bet for freestanding or fireplace.

https://supremem.com/vision.php

Supreme - DUET

supremem.com

 

[Sean in the woods]

What are the things you want from the fireplace/insert/wood stove/thing?
Heat? If so, how much do you need? Where is the house? What are the winters like?
Ambiance?
The joy of splitting and stacking wood?
And again, Buget.

 

[zephyr0512]

Yes, this is a ZeroClearance fireplace. The insulation around the chimney and that has fallen on top of the stove is a red-flag, especially if it is blown-in cellulose. Based on what you are saying. it sounds like you would just like to tear it all out. That's fine as long as it isn't structural. There are not a lot of double-sided stoves sold in the US. Supreme is probably your best bet for freestanding or fireplace.

https://supremem.com/vision.php

Supreme - DUET

supremem.com

Wow! The Supreme is really nice looking. I wonder how efficient it is and what the quality is like? I’ll do more research on this one for sure. Thanks!

 

[zephyr0512]

What are the things you want from the fireplace/insert/wood stove/thing?
Heat? If so, how much do you need? Where is the house? What are the winters like?
Ambiance?
The joy of splitting and stacking wood?
And again, Buget.

Well, we’d like heat of course, enough for Pensacola Florida winters, which annually goes below freezing and is cold for usually only 2 months. Ambiance is a big deal for me, especially early morning and late evenings. My husband LOVES to burn wood! He would buy a log splitter in a heart beat, even if for only a cord per year. He burned 2 cords in his pit the first winter we had our firepit.

Budget…hm? I know my husband has one. Me, I want this done and done right, the first time. I really would like to do something like a double sided, or the “See through” from Vision looks very interesting. Even though I want a double sided, I think I’d like to retain the fireplace, hearth area and have a top shelf mantle. Attaching pic’s of what I’m thinking I’d like to have.
My husband would like to retain the current fireplace, maybe knock the walls out but leave a squared box area with the flue coming out the center, with a wood burning stove in the middle of the fireplace, like the first pic shows.

 

[Sean in the woods]

Well, we’d like heat of course, enough for Pensacola Florida winters, which annually goes below freezing and is cold for usually only 2 months. Ambiance is a big deal for me, especially early morning and late evenings. My husband LOVES to burn wood! He would buy a log splitter in a heart beat, even if for only a cord per year. He burned 2 cords in his pit the first winter we had our firepit.

Budget…hm? I know my husband has one. Me, I want this done and done right, the first time. I really would like to do something like a double sided, or the “See through” from Vision looks very interesting. Even though I want a double sided, I think I’d like to retain the fireplace, hearth area and have a top shelf mantle. Attaching pic’s of what I’m thinking I’d like to have.
My husband would like to retain the current fireplace, maybe knock the walls out but leave a squared box area with the flue coming out the center, with a wood burning stove in the middle of the fireplace, like the first pic shows.

If I had the same requirements and preferences, I would be leaning toward double sided fireplace.

After a couple seasons living with wood feeding a wood stove I can tell you that the area around the fireplace and where the day’s wood is stored (or displayed) needs to be easily cleaned because it will shed bark, dust, splinters and other stuff that needs sweeping.

Also, The floor in front of each side needs to be not carpeted, preferably stone or tile because there will be a live coal popping out at one point.

Also also, it would be a good idea to have a good hearth slab. Something deep enough to catch most of the ash.

Of the pictures you attached, this one looks closest to what I would put in my southern home.

 

[begreen]

While romatic and nice to look at, open double-sided fireplaces of that design are known to be big heat sucks out of the house and often are poor performers. If the goal is also to provide efficient heat then the enclosed design of the Supreme will be more efficient.

 

[Sean in the woods]

While romatic and nice to look at, open double-sided fireplaces of that design are known to be big heat sucks out of the house and often are poor performers. If the goal is also to provide efficient heat then the enclosed design of the Supreme will be more efficient.

Hadn’t thought of that. Would it also create a reverse draft in the summer, dumping hot humid Florida air into the house. Or is it only one way?

 

[begreen]

Hadn’t thought of that. Would it also create a reverse draft in the summer, dumping hot humid Florida air into the house. Or is it only one way?

I don't know. Could be possible.
There are several enclosed double-sided stoves and ZC fireplaces in Europe including models by Morso, but I guess the market is not large enough here.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Wow! The Supreme is really nice looking. I wonder how efficient it is and what the quality is like? I’ll do more research on this one for sure. Thanks!

I don't have any personal experience with a double-sided Supreme, but I thought I'd mention that the man who installed our fireplace insert (a chimney sweep and stove installer by trade) used the freestanding Supreme Vision for heat in his off-grid home in North Texas. He said it was a great stove with a good-sized firebox for producing real heat in addition to the aesthetics. He wasn't trying to sell it to us since we were installing a different product, but we were just talking over dinner after the sun went down, and he had to get off our roof. He showed us pictures of his install (it was placed between two open rooms), and it looked nice.

 

[zephyr0512]

If I had the same requirements and preferences, I would be leaning toward double sided fireplace.

After a couple seasons living with wood feeding a wood stove I can tell you that the area around the fireplace and where the day’s wood is stored (or displayed) needs to be easily cleaned because it will shed bark, dust, splinters and other stuff that needs sweeping.

Also, The floor in front of each side needs to be not carpeted, preferably stone or tile because there will be a live coal popping out at one point.

Also also, it would be a good idea to have a good hearth slab. Something deep enough to catch most of the ash.

Of the pictures you attached, this one looks closest to what I would put in my southern home.
View attachment 270851

Thanks for your input! The pic of your choice is one of my favorites, but my husband’s idea, and favorite, is the one's with the stove inside the fireplace, keeping the fireplace nearly intact and adding a double sided stove inside. This way we can have the hearth and mantle area all the while having the stove in place. We think this would be the easiest approach for our redo, minimizing the reconstruction of the box and walls to the ceiling, and the floor area with the hearth, and then just inset a stove.

 

[zephyr0512]

I don't have any personal experience with a double-sided Supreme, but I thought I'd mention that the man who installed our fireplace insert (a chimney sweep and stove installer by trade) used the freestanding Supreme Vision for heat in his off-grid home in North Texas. He said it was a great stove with a good-sized firebox for producing real heat in addition to the aesthetics. He wasn't trying to sell it to us since we were installing a different product, but we were just talking over dinner after the sun went down, and he had to get off our roof. He showed us pictures of his install (it was placed between two open rooms), and it looked nice.

Thanks! Good to know about good recommendations. I’m not sure if this unit will fit with our redo, but it would likely be the top contender, at least from what I’ve read and see in pics, for our redo as my husband definitely wants to stick with a stove, inserted into the fireplace if this is possible for us.

 

[zephyr0512]

While romatic and nice to look at, open double-sided fireplaces of that design are known to be big heat sucks out of the house and often are poor performers. If the goal is also to provide efficient heat then the enclosed design of the Supreme will be more efficient.

My husband agrees with this route, the stove, hopefully inserted into the fireplace, being able to access it from both sides. Maybe we can accomplish the double sided romantic ambiance and nice looks without having to sacrifice too much efficiency. Being in Florida, we really don't need blistering heat, just enough to keep the chill off and not have to give all our money to Gulf Power and Pensacola Gas, the local energy and pocket drains of the South’s panhandle. Thanks!

 

[begreen]

If you go with the Supreme I suspect that it will be their ZC fireplace and not the freestanding stove. The issue is clearances. The freestanding stove needs a minimum 46" wide area and an 84" high ceiling. The Duet is a ZC fireplace that should be much less challenging to install. Note that it has gravity ducts that need to be installed.

 

[BenajminFunnyBones]

Noticing a lot of chatter here about double sided fireplaces, and I just wanted to say me and my wife love the one in our house! We wanted something with the look of an indoor outdoor fireplace, but something that isn't connected to the outside (because we live in North Dakota where it get's quite cold). We went with Acucraft to do ours, just because they only do custom fireplaces (which was a unique necessity to our situation... I linked them up above though in case anyone is in the same boat!