New member with buck insert and liner question

[Zbowling2]

Hello all,

My wife and I moved into a house built in the early 1900's and we moved in during May of 2017. The house is only 1600 square feet and has two additions that were built on after the original construction. The previous owner had a buck stove insert placed in the mid 90's and used it as a secondary heat source (the house also has an electric heat pump/central air.) The previous owner always cleaned the chimney himself and said that he has never had issues with the buck stove.

Last winter we burned about two cords of wood with no problems at all,and today I had a guy with a local chimney/masonry place come and inspect/clean the stove and chimney. He stated that the flue liner does not go all the way to the chimney cap and he indicated this is a problem and is not up to code therefore he could not recommend burning wood this winter. The chimney is approximately 25' in length (guesstimate), he is not sure how far the liner is from the top but states he could not feel it from the top of the chimney.

He also stated before he left that the liner is only 6" when it should be 8" and that if the original fire place that was here had any of the "heat shield" cut then it isn't safe for any type of wood burning insert. I am a complete novice when it comes to anything wood burning related. I used this site last year to teach me how to get an efficient fire going and after 7-10 fires I was able to have a really good burn with excellent heat last winter. The masonry around the insert last year was never warm to the touch, and I had little to no smoke at all out the top of the chimney. He said that the catalytic combustor looked newer and was very clean.

Is this set up safe to use this winter and to continue to use? If it is not, could someone explain to me a little more as to why it isn't safe. I do understand that with a 6" liner in an 8" chimney leaves space around for creosote/ash/etc. to fall in between so that concerns me a little. I have three pics showing the stove, the chimney coming out of the roof, and also a pic from the attic showing some of the chimney.

Any information or input would be greatly appreciated. If I did not do a very good job explaining please let me know and I will try to add more specifics.

Thanks!

 

[bholler]

I agree with everything he said. Absolutly not safe.

 

[Zbowling2]

Is there an easy way to fix this? Can I simply have a new liner placed that goes all the way to the chimney cap and have it the right size?

 

[bholler]

Is there an easy way to fix this? Can I simply have a new liner placed that goes all the way to the chimney cap and have it the right size?

I dont know we would need to know the model of the fireplace and the insert as well as the condition of the fireplace

 

[Zbowling2]

I dont know we would need to know the model of the fireplace and the insert as well as the condition of the fireplace

Unfortunately I have no idea of the model. I don't see any indicator anywhere on the stove as to what model it is either. It most closely resembles the buck 91 on their website, but I am sure it is a much older model. The inspector said that the fireplace itself and the insert is in great shape.

 

[bholler]

Unfortunately I have no idea of the model. I don't see any indicator anywhere on the stove as to what model it is either. It most closely resembles the buck 91 on their website, but I am sure it is a much older model. The inspector said that the fireplace itself and the insert is in great shape.

I beleive it is a model 80. And its manual only says it is to be installed in a masonry fireplace. So it is not allowed. Assuming there is a prefab fireplace hiding behind that insert surround. Which i think is a safe bet because of the metal chimney above it.

 

[barnaclebob]

That cut rafter makes me cringe. It just seems sloppy when it would have been better to put a jog in the pipe.

 

[bholler]

That cut rafter makes me cringe. It just seems sloppy when it would have been better to put a jog in the pipe.

Yeah especially since that is just a vent stack no reason it couldnt be offset

 

[Zbowling2]

I beleive it is a model 80. And its manual only says it is to be installed in a masonry fireplace. So it is not allowed. Assuming there is a prefab fireplace hiding behind that insert surround. Which i think is a safe bet because of the metal chimney above it.

You are correct, I just looked at the manual for the model 80 and that is what I have. So, if I am understanding correctly there is no part of this setup that is legit and it should have never been installed? Is there any type of fire place insert I would be able to have installed correctly and up to code?

 

[bholler]

You are correct, I just looked at the manual for the model 80 and that is what I have. So, if I am understanding correctly there is no part of this setup that is legit and it should have never been installed? Is there any type of fire place insert I would be able to have installed correctly and up to code?

That depends upon the model of your fireplace. The majority of them do not allow inserts. So unless you have one of the few that does allow it then no there is no way. Again this is assuming there is a prefab chimney there not a masonry one that has a metal chimney attached to the top of. I just cant tell for sire what is hoing on without seeing behind that surround

 

[Zbowling2]

That depends upon the model of your fireplace. The majority of them do not allow inserts. So unless you have one of the few that does allow it then no there is no way. Again this is assuming there is a prefab chimney there not a masonry one that has a metal chimney attached to the top of. I just cant tell for sire what is hoing on without seeing behind that surround

Okay thanks. Sorry for all the noob questions but would I have to pull the insert out to be able to tell if it is a prefab chimney?

 

[bholler]

Okay thanks. Sorry for all the noob questions but would I have to pull the insert out to be able to tell if it is a prefab chimney?

Just the surround.

 

[Zbowling2]

Just the surround.

Okay so I managed to get the surround off and move the insert out a little to get some pictures. I’m assuming this is not an ideal setup at all. I was only able to move it about 6 inches on one side as I am by myself but here are a few pictures. As far as I can tell the connector pipe to the chimney is only about 3 feet long. Also notice all the creosote on the insert, I’m guessing that’s from the cleaning the chimney sweep performed yesterday.

 

[bholler]

Okay so I managed to get the surround off and move the insert out a little to get some pictures. I’m assuming this is not an ideal setup at all. I was only able to move it about 6 inches on one side as I am by myself but here are a few pictures. As far as I can tell the connector pipe to the chimney is only about 3 feet long. Also notice all the creosote on the insert, I’m guessing that’s from the cleaning the chimney sweep performed yesterday.

View attachment 230543 View attachment 230544 View attachment 230545 View attachment 230546

Yeah that is very unsafe without a doubt.

 

[Zbowling2]

Yeah that is very unsafe without a doubt.

Great. Is it possible to buy a zero clearance wood burning insert like the buck 18 that is approved for prefabricated fire places?

 

[bholler]

Great. Is it possible to buy a zero clearance wood burning insert like the buck 18 that is approved for prefabricated fire places?

If your fireplace allows inserts to be installed in it. And who ever did that horrible install didnt remove any part of the fireplace. And the fireplace is in good working order and installed correctly then yes you could do that. But you first need to remove that insert and find out what fireplace you have and what condition it is in.

 

[Zbowling2]

If your fireplace allows inserts to be installed in it. And who ever did that horrible install didnt remove any part of the fireplace. And the fireplace is in good working order and installed correctly then yes you could do that. But you first need to remove that insert and find out what fireplace you have and what condition it is in.

Okay. Thanks for all your help. I definitely won't be burning anything with this setup this winter, and I am disappointed I did not get this checked before winter last year. Hopefully over the next week or so I can get some time and help to get that insert out and figure out what I have going on in there. Will update with what I find. Thanks again!

 

[Zbowling2]

Quick update. My father in law and I pulled the old buck stove out and had everything inspected by a local chimney/masonry business. I ended up purchasing an Enviro Kodiak 1700 insert from them that was installed with a stainless steel liner one week ago. So far everything has been great learning this stove, however the fan only seems to blow air on one side of the insert. I’m not sure if this is by design or if I have a blower not functioning. The crew is coming back out tomorrow to replace the surround, (it was damaged during shipping but I had them install it until the new surround was ordered), so I will ask them about the blower. I’ve searched and searched the forums but can’t seem to find if any other Kodiak owners have the same problem. Here is a pic of what I’m talking about.

 

[bholler]

Quick update. My father in law and I pulled the old buck stove out and had everything inspected by a local chimney/masonry business. I ended up purchasing an Enviro Kodiak 1700 insert from them that was installed with a stainless steel liner one week ago. So far everything has been great learning this stove, however the fan only seems to blow air on one side of the insert. I’m not sure if this is by design or if I have a blower not functioning. The crew is coming back out tomorrow to replace the surround, (it was damaged during shipping but I had them install it until the new surround was ordered), so I will ask them about the blower. I’ve searched and searched the forums but can’t seem to find if any other Kodiak owners have the same problem. Here is a pic of what I’m talking about.
View attachment 237946

So your fireplace allowed for insert installation and your chimney allowed for a liner?

 

[Zbowling2]

Yes, correct.

 

[bholler]

Yes, correct.

What fireplace is it?