New Oslo questions

[Blue Vomit]

Shari, and others...
Not trying to hijack this thread as I think it may help Mark as well but can I get your opinion on this thread as well?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/86699/

 

[Butcher]

Green Energy,

I do use 3-6 inch splits for most of my fires. It is extra work splitting and feeding but I again feel like I have more control. I try to always place the larger pieces on the outside(s). I have a whole lot of smaller pieces set aside to get things going and then I feed the fire as need be, smalls to get hotter and a few bigs to last. I also stockpile 3-6" un-splits for hotter fires after the burn is going. Lots of work saved by not splitting the limbs...

Thanks.
Mark

Are you saying you are adding wood to the stove during the burn cycle? It's easy to miss read things on the interweb so I'm just wunderin.
If thats what you are doing it is the same mistake I made when I first installed my oslo. Always thought I should see far. I soon learned to let the stove cool to about 350° and then stuff the wood into it. I to had problems getting ST temps up to what everyone else was saying they were seeing but after a short learning curve I have trouble keeping the ST temps UNDER 600°!
I'm a controll freak too but I have realized that the only control I have over this new stove is how much wood I put in it. As was said earlier about the size of splits it is what I found out also. Nothing over 5" dia. Just burns so much better. And I also found that the ashpan is gonna stay full till spring. Just shovel the box out as need be and try to leave 2" of ash as per Jotuls recomendations. The air for the doghouse dont come thru the ashpan anyhow. It comes from around the perimeter of the stove. You have to be careful when loading east to west that the front split isnt blocking those 3 holes. I try to put a long enough piece in the front to bridge the gap and keep anything else from falling and blocking those air holes. JMHO.Good luck and hope it works for ya.

 

[cptoneleg]

Im not going to say much because you are getting good advice, I do some things different than what I am hearing here and I have good controll of my stove.


1. I empty my ash pan ever 2 or 3 days just to keep things clean, and the pan doesn't get so full that ashes are scraped off back when removing. This to me keeps everything clean.

2. I use front door more than side door, just because I have learned to control the ashes, I don't need so many ashes for good burns I can make more. There is always plenty of coals and ashes for a good burn.

The air controle you call cheesey is fine I wouldn't change it its not broke. Keep burning and asking questions its not that hard to run, and they may be right it could be your chimney, but give it a few days. I burned an old stove for over 20yrs, and also switched to an Oslo and love it, this is my second season.

Anyway the things I mentioned are not your problem, hope you get it going

Oh yes I don't worry about laying splits right in front of the holes, doesn't matter on my stove , just makes that split fire off faster after reload.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Well, I just eased right back in here didn't I

Looky, I still don't know that chimney dimension. If it's not 6 inch round chimney you simply won't get optimum performance from the oslo. AND, the bigger the liner, the worse it will be. Ignore this piece and all hope is lost.

I read here that there was assumption of good draft with your chimney. I do not concur. 6 inch round pipe has a cross section of 28 sq. in. This is the recommended chimney for the Oslo. If you have anything larger it seriously increases the volumne of the chimney, dramatically affecting the oslo performance.

Go back and re-read my earlier posts.

The oslo operates as a freight train, it is slow to get gowing, but really cranks once she's fired up. It is a well designed stove and has heated my home near exclusively for almost 5 winters.

If necessary, when you add wood, leave the side door open until the stove top thermometer reaches 300 degrees, then close it. Leave the primary air open all the way until the stove reaches 500, then set it at half for a short period of time, then you should be able to set it to closed/almost closed and it will burn clean through that load. However, if you have less than an optimum chimney setup, which is what I suspect you have, the oslo likely will not perform as stated.

Maybe you should consider another stove. Not trying to be an antagonizer, I am convinced that other stoves may perform better with your chimney setup, then again, they may not.

Post some pics of this fine setup you have.

And also, determine that chimney interior dimension and post that here too, I'd be interested to know.

Post some pics of your wood stash too, we love pics of wood piles

 

[Green Energy]

Mark,

I know that you are getting a lot of advice, maybe more than you bargained for. And it is covering several different topics from the set up to operations. The open question on set up is the dimensions of the flue. You thought it might be 8 x 4". If this is the case, while it is not optimum, it should be fine as long as it doesn't have any leaks and is safe. But as said, there is a big difference between 8 x 4 and 10 x 6 as the larger one has twice the area.

On the operational side, try using smaller splits to see how the stove responses. Stay in the 3-4" range and see if that makes a difference. Also, don't pack them to tight, leave room for air to get around them. And you said your wood is in the 15-20% MC range, so you should not see steam or hissing coming out of the ends of the wood (it took me a season to get dry enough wood so I didn't have to "season" my wood in the stove). Steam coming out of the wood, keeps the temperatures at the burn tubes lower.

The other thing you may need to learn about is the "top down" fires. These stoves do best when the coaling is taking place on top of the load of fuel. There is a bunch of threads and links to videos on "top down". Just search the forum for more info on how to do a "top down" fire. It makes a huge difference in the speed of the stove coming up to temperature when the kindling/small stuff is on top of your load. THe stove is designed to concentrate the heat around the secondary tubes as they need ~ 1200 F to work properly. My old way of building a fire with kindling and small stuff and then adding bigger splits on top of the fire just does not work nearly as well with secondary tube stoves.

The top down method works so well, and I consider it so important to getting the stove back up to cruising temps, that on reloads, I move my coals up to the front of the stove, put in three splits, two stacked on the back wall and one split next to the back stack, and then I shovel a bunch of coals up on the second to the back split. I want to get the direct radiant heat on top of my load as quickly as possible as this key to getting good secondary burn. I also put some smaller splits (2-3") on top.

Also, I use the side door when the fire needs to spread and catch on. I find just leaving it open just a crack, with the lock in place to hold it open, works best for me. You definitely need to be careful not to leave it in this position too long or else the stove could have an out of control fire. Depending on a couple factors, I don't usually operate it like this for more than five to seven minutes, unless my wood is not dry enough (then it could take 1/2 hour or more of driving the moisture off - my first season). When I have a close to full fire box of flames for a couple minutes, I should be able to close the door and have the primary air open and the fire will moderate some, but will continue to build after adjusting to the door being closed. It should steadily build to the point that the magnetic thermometer reaches 350-400 F. Since you are having problems, you should probably keep the primary air open all the way until you get to 400 or even 450 F. I'm in the habit of turning it to half way at 350 to 375 F if my firebox is raging. If you want the stove at 550 or 600 F, you should leave the primary air open to 1/4 to 1/2 until you get to that temp. Then you can turn the air off and allow the secondary air to keep it cooking.

I hope this is helpful and you are working it out.

Sean

 

[logger]

I also think its a draft issue. I notice a huge difference with the doghouse open and shut... its how I operate the stove properly, along with load size and species of wood. While Im no expert, I can tell you that when the stove is drafting properly the use of the air control is vital in getting those secondaries rolling and keeping the heat in the stove and not up your chimney. We've owned and operated many stoves over the years and I am more than happy with our Oslo. Best of luck pin pointing the problem, and when you do, Im sure you'll be pleased with your stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to really add here . . .

To me it sounds like a draft issue which might be fixed with a liner.

Best way to get the fire going is to leave the side door ajar as another member mentioned.

Let the ashes build up . . . you want 1-2 inches in the firebox base . . . large coals will stay above the grates.

Perhaps my most sage bit of advice . . . keep experimenting, keep asking questions and keep an open mind . . . there's lots of good, collective knowledge here.

Oh yeah . . . also welcome to hearth.com.

 

[KevinK]

Mark,
Welcome to the forum (from another Oslo owner, ...and in Orange County, NY )
I haven't posted here in a while, but did when I first installed my Oslo about a year or two ago.
First off, ...I love the Oslo, it's been a great stove.
My setup (photo below) is running 6" double-wall, ...to an 8" (stainless) instulated, ...from rec-room (raised ranch) to about 4' above roofline.
Once I get a good draft going (a couple sheets of newspaper will do it), ...the stove starts right up and the front lever seems quite responsive.............................. with the right wood.
Bottom line, ...with typical seasoned wood (Oak, Maple, Cherry, Locus) it burns fine, and the burn can be controlled with the front lever. I have had times when I've filled it with some really dry stuff, ...and it's tough to slow down. On the other hand, ...I've had some damp wood, ...where full open, ...it burned slow.
My only point here is that I'm VERY pleased with my Oslo, ...yet the wood seems to be a big factor on how much you can control the burn.

Kevin

 

[MarkC]

Hey all, thanks a lot for all the advice and anecdotes. I appreciate them all.
I have been cutting and splitting for next year so I haven'y lit-up the computer for a day or so.
I have been trying the side door draft and it is not terrible. The ash door does provide a better response but I don't want my wife to see me doing it, I strictly forbade her to do it!

Outdoor temps are dropping tonight into single digits (15 now) so I am looking forward to the challenge.
I have a nice Ash/Oak blend going now and the downstairs is a comfortable 68F.
I left the air control at ~25% when I left at 6am and there were coals at 5pm. A few small splits burst into flames and it is now a couple hours later. Stove top temps reached 450 or so and dropped to 350 and holding. Control is still far right...I am comfortable temperature-wise but still not sure of what the heck I am doing here.

All in all I feel they have taken too much control from the operator. It is like the politically correct movement, what is right for me is right for everybody.
Sorry if that offends anyone but I feel I should be able to crank the stove as long as I watch it and tone it down when need be. Just because people are burning their houses down or warping their stoves shouldn't proclude me from being able to handle mine. I guess I was expecting a remarkable difference in the operation, not so far.

The ash drawer comments have me a little confused too. I thought about letting ash build up as I definitely saw better performance in my old CDW when it had a good bed in it. I decided not to after emptying the drawer and having ashrs drag-off all over. I agree with the poster that keeps things clean, If I have the damn drawer I guess I will learn to deal with that too. It must be for my own good...

I will look for a photo of my install and wood pile just to prove I really own a stove.

Thanks again,
Mark

 

[cptoneleg]

You will get it, emtyed my ash drawer earlier am making more ashes as we speek, when I emtied them there was a bed of coals about 6" deep to make more ash , and did not drag them off the back.

When its cold and you burn really hard and hot, shake them coals around you will have plenty of ashes. Amazes me they think them nasty sobs are worth something you can make more. And keep your Hearth and Stove Clean.

 

[cptoneleg]

Hey all, thanks a lot for all the advice and anecdotes. I appreciate them all.
I have been cutting and splitting for next year so I haven'y lit-up the computer for a day or so.
I have been trying the side door draft and it is not terrible. The ash door does provide a better response but I don't want my wife to see me doing it, I strictly forbade her to do it!

Outdoor temps are dropping tonight into single digits (15 now) so I am looking forward to the challenge.
I have a nice Ash/Oak blend going now and the downstairs is a comfortable 68F.
I left the air control at ~25% when I left at 6am and there were coals at 5pm. A few small splits burst into flames and it is now a couple hours later. Stove top temps reached 450 or so and dropped to 350 and holding. Control is still far right...I am comfortable temperature-wise but still not sure of what the heck I am doing here.

All in all I feel they have taken too much control from the operator. It is like the politically correct movement, what is right for me is right for everybody.
Sorry if that offends anyone but I feel I should be able to crank the stove as long as I watch it and tone it down when need be. Just because people are burning their houses down or warping their stoves shouldn't proclude me from being able to handle mine. I guess I was expecting a remarkable difference in the operation, not so far.

The ash drawer comments have me a little confused too. I thought about letting ash build up as I definitely saw better performance in my old CDW when it had a good bed in it. I decided not to after emptying the drawer and having ashrs drag-off all over. I agree with the poster that keeps things clean, If I have the damn drawer I guess I will learn to deal with that too. It must be for my own good...

I will look for a photo of my install and wood pile just to prove I really own a stove.

Thanks again,
Mark

When my stove reaches the 350 - 400- mark I backit down on the cheecy throttle and temp. climbs, been mentioned but smaller splits, the big ones really need some yrs on them.

Good Luck :zip:

 

[MarkC]

ansehnlich1,

I dont know how else to reply to you, there seems to be at least 2 extraordinary Pyros here, but you are the one who requested photos...
I get your backhanded compliment as to my "fine setup" I hope it lives up to your expectations.

These are some pix I found quickly that were not meant for expert scrutiny, just innocent photos.
You can see my Lab likes both stoves, as he loves me, without questions.

I will prepare some photos specifically for your perusal as soon as my battery is charged, Christmas is Hell on cameras in my house.

By the way, you may rue the day you requested photos, another of my weaknesses.

Mark

P.S.
Kevin, where in Orange Co. are you?
I am in Montgomery/Pine Bush...

 

[Green Energy]

Mark,

Glad to hear it is working for you. I know what you mean about the controls. My CDW had three air dials and the bypass damper for the cat. I also used the ash drawer door to get the fire going w/o any problems for years. The thing was bomb-proof. The Olso is a different type of stove. It heats up quicker, burners hotter, provides great light shows, and has the looks of a piece of art. Learning to operate it is more of an art as well. The size and type of wood, the way you pack the wood, and the control of the primary air can all make a big difference in the top end of the fire and the length of the burn. The control is more nuanced. Also, a 400 F fire will burn longer than a 600 F fire. (The 600 F fire for max heat output, the 400F - 450 F fire for burn time). The key is to get good secondaries. When I burned my CDW, I usually could not see what was going on in there other than a orange glow behind my hazy glass.

Speaking of ash drawer, some Oslo owners don't use it as it provides more insulation to allow it to fill up, and it also removes the potential for air leakage through the gasket (or the need to replace the ash drawer gasket every so ofter). I clean my drawer out around twice a week as I find it more convenient then shoveling the stove out. I then put the drawer back and knock some ashed down into it and shake them to the front of the drawer. I'll happily replace the gasket on the ash door for the convenience of using the drawer.

It sounds like you did well getting having coals after 8 hours. I haven't burn ash, but it must be better than oak from the limrick in your sig file.

I would still suggest you check out the dimensions of your flue as this could affect performance. The amount of draft is the engine of the fire. It pulls the O2 in. The other issue is the creosote build up if the products of combustion move up the flue too slowly and cool below 220 F. A flex liner is ~ $500 (uninsulated) for 6" x 25' uninstalled. I installed mine myself. Wasn't too bad as I did my research. It is a two person job. There are videos on how to do this.

Sean

 

[MarkC]

Sean,

I appreciate your input.
I may pick your brain on a DYI liner install if I can't make this work. I am stubborn and find it hard to believe that a perfectly good tile flue needs a $550 to $2000 relining...
My old CDW did not have an ash drawer option so I shoveled every weekend. I liked the performance right before the cleaning but it sacrificed firebox space with the ash...

Last stupid question (for this post) how do I know when I am experiencing a "secondary"? I think I saw fireworks once, now I'm not sure...

Mark

 

[cptoneleg]

Sean,

I appreciate your input.
I may pick your brain on a DYI liner install if I can't make this work. I am stubborn and find it hard to believe that a perfectly good tile flue needs a $550 to $2000 relining...
My old CDW did not have an ash drawer option so I shoveled every weekend. I liked the performance right before the cleaning but it sacrificed firebox space with the ash...

Last stupid question (for this post) how do I know when I am experiencing a "secondary"? I think I saw fireworks once, now I'm not sure...

Mark

Behind that dog in first piture the secondaries seem to be rolling

 

[MarkC]

My battery is charged so here are a couple of more photos.
The house is not exactly clean but I think you get the idea.

I designed and installed the wrought iron shortly after my first daughter was born (4/21/90).
We were afraid of her getting burned. 20+ years later and 2 more daughters without a burn. Except me of course.
We have gotten used to the extra area to dry wet mittens, hats and towels. so we kept it.


Mark

 

[Green Energy]

Secondary burn occurs when the hot smoke coming off the wood ignites a second time, or continues to burn above the wood. The tubes at the top of the firebox introduce "secondary air" and good secondaries in the early stages of the cycle will look like the fire is actually coming out of the tubes.

See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuSwPVsnv_E

 

[firefighterjake]

Uncage the beast . . . free the Oslo . . . Oslos should be free range . . .

Secondaries . . . What I tend to see is the Portal to Hell (a mass of rolling, roaring flames in the top third of the firebox while there are little to no flames in the bottom part of the firebox near the wood or the flames that are there are "lazy") or the Northern Lights (where the gas kind of explodes into view like miniature fireworks bursts minus the sound). Other folks have shown pictures of what looks like blue propane BBQ flames shooting out of their secondary burn tubes.

Sounds like you understand the air control . . . for more heat and longer burn times (not to mention a cleaner burn) turning down the air is a good thing . . . however the air control in itself is not entirely what controls the heat output . . . the second half of the equation is the fuel (how often you reload, how much you fill up the firebox and what you put in the firebox for wood.)

Ashes . . . I find if I am diligent and clean out my ash pan twice a week I can minimize the ashes that come out when I drag the pan out . . . if I am a bit lazy and don't clean it out as quickly it can overflow . . . I tend to give the ash pan a good shake back and forth a few times to level out the ashes and then pull it out . . . this usually keeps most of the ash in the pan and not on my hearth.

 

[logger]

I let my ashpan fill and leave it like that for the season. For me, it's a useless task to keep cleaning it and reap no benefits. The ashes in the stove are swept about every two weeks, but fires burn much better and coals stay lit longer with ashes in the box. These are just my suggestions since they work so well for us over the last 3 winters w the Oslo.

 

[grommal]

I definitely use the ash pan in our Oslo. It's large, and the system for ash management is very well designed. There's no problem leaving a layer of ash in the stove, as long as you avoid the temptation of raking it all down every day. I rake our ashes almost not at all, and empty the ash pan every 5-7 days of 24/7 burning, spilling none at all. The ashes basically just fall through the grate on their own once the coals are burned completely enough. Avoiding the raking allows the coals to stay in the firebox until then, rather than dropping all the little ones through the grate.

No shoveling, almost no raking, no mess, no fuss. Hard to understand the rationale for not using it.

 

[cptoneleg]

I definitely use the ash pan in our Oslo. It's large, and the system for ash management is very well designed. There's no problem leaving a layer of ash in the stove, as long as you avoid the temptation of raking it all down every day. I rake our ashes almost not at all, and empty the ash pan every 5-7 days of 24/7 burning, spilling none at all. The ashes basically just fall through the grate on their own once the coals are burned completely enough. Avoiding the raking allows the coals to stay in the firebox until then, rather than dropping all the little ones through the grate.

No shoveling, almost no raking, no mess, no fuss. Hard to understand the rationale for not using it.

Makes 2 of us

 

[MarkC]

Thanks again, the ash pan theory is a definite item of interest. As I said I never dealt with one before. I have also sort of perfected the little shake to level them out and that seems to keep the majority of the ash in the pan. The first or second time I emptied it I dragged a lot out on the floor plus some fell into the compartment and had to be shoveled. May have waited too long between cleanings, now its about 5-6 days or when I get a good chance, whichever comes first. Like everything else I am learning and with all the personal experiences here- hopefully not the hard way so much.

BTW.
Have a nice 450 burn going right now and have the air feed lever at about mast...nice secondary flame pattern and the house is cozy even though the high temp was about 28 today.

Things are looking up I think.
Thanks again,
Mark