New PE T5 insert learning curve?

[reagib]

About a month ago, we had our old Silent Flame insert replaced by a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. It hasn't been very cold at all here, so it's been keeping us plenty warm. Yesterday, it was cold and windy, and I noticed I couldn't get it up past 67degrees in the room where the insert is.

I spent hours yesterday reading through posts about how to run the stove properly, letting it cycle, and what temperature it should be running at. I have a IR thermometer that I shoot at the top right corner of the door, at it doesn't get past 325degrees, but normally it's more like 290-300. I did manage to get the top of the stove (inside the little opening where the air blows across) to 550degrees for a short time, but it's more like 350 normally, and where the air blows across, it's 290-300. Should the door get hotter? I see people put thermometers on the corner of the door of their insert.

This morning, it's windy and cold again. We started out at 61degrees in the living room (where the insert is about 15 feet across the room). I loaded it up and I got it nice and hot (around 550 on the top), and now 5 hours later, it's still only 66. Do I keep feeding it until it's as warm as I want? Or do I let it cycle? The coals are starting to build up in there.

We burn oak, seasoned for two years. They are logs between 3 and 6 inches thick. The thicker pieces, we are thinking, need to be split a little smaller. Would that help? They don't sizzle and char pretty quick, so I think they're dry, but I did order a moisture meter just to be sure.

What am I missing? What am I doing wrong? I know there is a learning curve to the newer stoves. Thank you!!

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

About a month ago, we had our old Silent Flame insert replaced by a Pacific Energy Alderlea T5. It hasn't been very cold at all here, so it's been keeping us plenty warm. Yesterday, it was cold and windy, and I noticed I couldn't get it up past 67degrees in the room where the insert is.

I spent hours yesterday reading through posts about how to run the stove properly, letting it cycle, and what temperature it should be running at. I have a IR thermometer that I shoot at the top right corner of the door, at it doesn't get past 325degrees, but normally it's more like 290-300. I did manage to get the top of the stove (inside the little opening where the air blows across) to 550degrees for a short time, but it's more like 350 normally, and where the air blows across, it's 290-300. Should the door get hotter? I see people put thermometers on the corner of the door of their insert.

This morning, it's windy and cold again. We started out at 61degrees in the living room (where the insert is about 15 feet across the room). I loaded it up and I got it nice and hot (around 550 on the top), and now 5 hours later, it's still only 66. Do I keep feeding it until it's as warm as I want? Or do I let it cycle? The coals are starting to build up in there.

We burn oak, seasoned for two years. They are logs between 3 and 6 inches thick. The thicker pieces, we are thinking, need to be split a little smaller. Would that help? They don't sizzle and char pretty quick, so I think they're dry, but I did order a moisture meter just to be sure.

What am I missing? What am I doing wrong? I know there is a learning curve to the newer stoves. Thank you!!

Has the wood been under top cover while it seasoned? Was it in full sun and wind? Reading your post makes me think the wood is not dry enough. Smaller splits help, but 6 inch is not too big for most stoves. As soon as you get your moisture meter, get a few splits indoors for 12 hrs or so, resplit them and measure the MC on the split face, in the center.

 

[begreen]

You could run the insert a bit hotter by opening up the air a little. Sometimes this only takes 10-20% more air to raise the stove temp 100º. This is helpful when the wood is not at or below 21% moisture content. Also, try to not let the temp get so low overnight. It can take a long time to heat up the entire mass of a space. One is not just heating the air, but all of the mass of the floors, windows, walls, ceiling and furniture. If some of the heat is also going upstairs then it can take a while. The option is to run it longer or hotter. If you are reading 550º on the actual stove top, that is a little low. 300º is definitely too low.

 

[jetsam]

2 years is probably not enough for oak, even with good top cover, so marginal wood is part of your problem. Get some pine split and covered now, and it will be ready for next year. Pine only needs a year.

As it's a new stove, you probably have some stuff you could improve operationally too. You may want to update the title of this thread to include "Pacific Energy Alderlea T5" so other owners will see it- they are the ones who will have the best advice.

 

[reagib]

Has the wood been under top cover while it seasoned? Was it in full sun and wind? Reading your post makes me think the wood is not dry enough. Smaller splits help, but 6 inch is not too big for most stoves. As soon as you get your moisture meter, get a few splits indoors for 12 hrs or so, resplit them and measure the MC on the split face, in the center.

Yes, it's been under cover the whole time. I'm very curious what the meter will say...

 

[reagib]

You may want to update the title of this thread to include "Pacific Energy Alderlea T5" so other owners will see it- they are the ones who will have the best advice.

That's an excellent suggestion...How do I edit the title?

 

[begreen]

Done

 

[reagib]

Yes, it's been under cover the whole time. I'm very curious what the meter will say...

Ok, so I got a meter and the splits are between 14 and 19. A little high? Would that account for such a low heat output?

 

[begreen]

Ok, so I got a meter and the splits are between 14 and 19. A little high? Would that account for such a low heat output?

Was this tested on room temp wood that was resplit and tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood?

 

[Woody Stover]

Pacific Energy Alderlea T5...in the living room (where the insert is

To clarify, this is a free-standing T5 stove, not an insert, correct?

I did manage to get the top of the stove (inside the little opening where the air blows across) to 550degrees for a short time, but it's more like 350 normally, and where the air blows across, it's 290-300.

I have the stove top meter on my SIL's T5. In the pic, the left trivet top is swung open a little to show where the meter is, right in front of the flue exit. With dry wood, we see 600-700 here, once the new load is established and the secondary is firing good. We don't have the blower yet, however..
If you have single-wall connector pipe out of the flue exit, get a magnetic surface flue meter and place it about 18" above the stove top. It will give you more immediate feedback as to what the fire is doing. Once you familiarize yourself with what flue temps to expect at various stages of the burn, such as when secondary burn is starting, the meter will aid you in knowing when to start cutting the air back and how much as the new load catches, in order to maintain strong secondary combustion.

We burn oak, seasoned for two years. They are logs between 3 and 6 inches thick. The thicker pieces, we are thinking, need to be split a little smaller. Would that help? They don't sizzle and char pretty quick, so I think they're dry, but I did order a moisture meter just to be sure.

Whole round logs don't dry very fast, particularly Oak. Splits dry faster than rounds, but in my experience still take two years or more to dry below 20% and burn well. Large splits take longer to dry, but may be useful in your secondary-burn stove to keep the burn under control, once you have dry wood.
As begreen inferred, rounds or splits to be tested for moisture content need to be warmed to room temp for a couple of days, then re-split and tested on the fresh face. Cold wood will read false low, but I'm not sure by how much. But we need to ask about your testing procedure because 14% is very low...lower than the equilibrium moisture content for wood in our area of the country. The lowest I've seen is 16%, on well-covered splits that were stacked four years. Wind, air temp and humidity are the prime ingredients in drying wood, but sun is certainly an added benefit.
If your wood doesn't hiss, or worse, bubble moisture out the ends of the splits after about fifteen minutes on the coals, as you said, it may at least be somewhat dry.
If your wood is truly dry and you throw a small round or a split on a hot coal bed, it should burst into strong flames fairly quickly. A larger round will take a bit longer to do that, though.
Another sign of dry wood is strong secondary combustion within twenty minutes or so, if you've loaded on a decent coal bed. Once you see signs of secondary combustion beginning at the air holes in the baffle, start cutting the air in small increments, taking care not to snuff the secondary action. When you have lazy flame off the wood, and good secondaries, you're in cruise mode.
I haven't run the T5 enough yet to claim that I know all the ins and outs..
Are you seeing this type of strong secondary action, once the load is established and you've begun to cut the air? Flames igniting from the front and bottom air holes in the baffle?

We started out at 61degrees in the living room (where the insert is about 15 feet across the room). I loaded it up and I got it nice and hot (around 550 on the top), and now 5 hours later, it's still only 66. Do I keep feeding it until it's as warm as I want? Or do I let it cycle? The coals are starting to build up in there.

It could be that your stove isn't putting out as much heat as it could, if your wood isn't totally dry. Or it could be that the space you're trying to heat is large, or hard to heat.
Can you describe the sq. footage, layout (open, or rooms and hallways,) insulation and air-sealing level of the house, etc?
Yes, coal buildup can be a problem if you keep throwing more wood in. Coaling is worse yet with damp wood..coals are slower to burn down.

 

[reagib]

Was this tested on room temp wood that was resplit and tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood?

Dang, the 14% log had been out in the garage...so, no. I'll bring in a split tonight and let it warm up and test in the morning.

 

[reagib]

To clarify, this is a free-standing T5 stove, not an insert, correct?

No, this is an insert

 

[reagib]

Can you describe the sq. footage, layout (open, or rooms and hallways,) insulation and air-sealing level of the house, etc?
Yes, coal buildup can be a problem if you keep throwing more wood in. Coaling is worse yet with damp wood..coals are slower to burn down.

We live in a 2000 sq ft ranch home. The insert is in the living room which is about 350 sq ft with a wide door way to the north that leads to the kitchen (about 250 sq ft). To the south there is a long hallway that leads to the bedrooms. We have a small fan that sits on the floor at the end of the hallway to circulate the air to the bedrooms. We really are only trying to heat the living room and kitchen areas. We don't mind the bedrooms being a little cooler.

 

[Woody Stover]

Dang, the 14% log had been out in the garage...so, no. I'll bring in a split tonight and let it warm up and test in the morning.

I'll be interested to hear how much difference there is between the cold and warm reading. You might go out and get a cold log and split it in half, leave one half in the garage, warm one up in the house for a couple days. The re-split both and measure. That would be a true apples-to-apples comparison.

No, this is an insert

Looks like both are built around the same box. but forget about the magnetic surface flue meter. The only way to get flue temps would be with a digital readout probe, with the display box out in the room.

We live in a 2000 sq ft ranch home. The insert is in the living room which is about 350 sq ft with a wide door way to the north that leads to the kitchen (about 250 sq ft). To the south there is a long hallway that leads to the bedrooms. We have a small fan that sits on the floor at the end of the hallway to circulate the air to the bedrooms. We really are only trying to heat the living room and kitchen areas. We don't mind the bedrooms being a little cooler.

With dry wood, you should be able to put a serious dent in your heat load, especially in SW MO. That's south of us by a good hundred miles at least.
And in a ranch, with no vaulted ceilings, and the big door opening, you should be able to move the heat back to the bedrooms with some success. I keep our bedroom cooler as well, and concentrate the heat in the living area.

 

[begreen]

Was an insulated blockoff plate installed in the damper area above the insert? That can help improve the heat output of the insert if the fireplace is on an exterior wall. A bit of insulation behind the insert also helps.

 

[mar13]

Were you previously able to get adequate heat in such weather conditions with your old Silent Flame insert?

 

[jetmech]

Reagib. i have a very similar set up as you do... i just installed a PE super insert into a fireplace in a ranch house about 2000 sq ft.. mine sits in my family room that is about 25 x 20 with normal ceilings and room opens into kitchen and dining room.... highest reading i have gotten above stove door is around 535 deg... once the room is heated i can run with blower on lower setting.. it is currently 26 degrees here and its keeping kitchen and dining room close to 69 deg... if i let the fire go out overnight it takes about 3 hours for temps inside to recover. my wood is pretty dry. keep in mind our stoves have same firebox... the only issue im having is lots of coalsi have to burn down between reloads.. but its doing a good job... dry wood is the key to about 80 percent issues posted here.... if you question your wood get some kiln dried stuff and try it...

 

[reagib]

Was an insulated blockoff plate installed in the damper area above the insert? That can help improve the heat output of the insert if the fireplace is on an exterior wall. A bit of insulation behind the insert also helps.

No, a blockoff plate was not installed, but it's not on an exterior wall.

 

[reagib]

We decided to totally clean out the firebox and start over. We had a lot more coal/ash in there than we realized. I'm happy to report that after doing that, we haven't had any problem getting it up to temp. I've learned that the door of this insert does not get that hot. But it is able to really put out some heat and keep us comfortable. We've learned that we can't let the coals/ash build up very far at all. Thank you all for you suggestions.

 

[begreen]

You're right, it's a tough one to get a good surface to read the temperature. The Alderlea series door construction is different from their main line PE equivalents. The door size is full coverage and the gasketing is different. At the top of the firebox, right behind the door is the airwash deflector. This keeps the top of the door relatively cool. The best solution might be a digital thermometer with a remote probe on the flue collar.