NEW STOVE ADVICE PLEASE

[Thunderbird]

Hello, I am a new forum member and I just joined the group today.

I was prepared to order a new Hearthstone Equinox soapstone stove tomorrow based on a conversation I had with a local stove dealer yesterday, but after reading the concerns some other forum members have had about Hearthstone customer service and occasional Hearthstone product quality issues, I thought I would reach out and see if anyone would recommend additional suitable stove options for my circumstances. I will spend whatever I must spend to have the best stove installed in my cabin so there is no budgetary constraint.

I have a 3 season cabin on an island in Northern MN. I will be primarily heating a 1500 SF cabin area with 16 foot high ceilings. There is an additional 600 SF in two additional rooms but they are at the far end of the cabin relative to where the stove would be installed and I have electric baseboard heat in those rooms. I would use fans to try to push some of the heat into those two rooms to the extent that is possible. There is very little insulation in the cabin and the window glass is all single pane. Typically, if the temperature outside drops to 35 degrees in the morning, the temperature inside the cabin when I wake up is in the mid 50's. There aren't any serious draft issues in the cabin even when it is windy outside.

I had selected the Hearthstone Equinox because Hearthstone says it has a large fire box and a long burn time which I hoped would limit the need to refill the firebox to 2-3x a day and still keep the cabin warm enough. I was concerned that the Equinox might be too big and overheat the cabin, but I hoped that I could control/reduce the stove's air flow which I hoped would slow the burn time and still keep the cabin warm enough while limiting the need to fill the firebox frequently. I also liked the idea that the soapstone would continue to radiate heat for a longer time than a steel stove or a cast iron stove after the fire went out.

My primary goal is to make the cabin more comfortable in the early spring and the late fall so I could comfortably use our island cabin 7 months out of the year. I currently do not use the cabin in the winter months, although I might give it a try depending on how comfortable the stove would make the cabin during the colder months.

I sure appreciate that you read my post and thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts and perspectives

 

[edyit]

based on the square footage you are trying to heat (2100) and the fact that you say there is very little insulation in the cabin i would say that if it was my personal preference i would be more inclined to go with a steel stove like the summers heat SSW02

http://pdf.lowes.com/useandcareguides/794909501545_use.pdf

or the englander nc30

http://www.heatredefined.com/englander/stove/englander-1800-2200-sq.-ft.-wood-stove

(fyi summers heat and englander are the same line of stoves just sold under different names at the box stores but same manufacturer)

 

[jetsam]

I would first insulate and replace the windows, and then see what my heating requirements looked like. No sense putting half the forest through a monster stove to save $500 on vinyl replacement windows.

If you need a monster stove and money isn't an issue, the BK King is your boy. 8" flue required, and it won't cook you out of the place after your insulation/window upgrade because you can turn it way down.

 

[jotul8e2]

Insulation is your friend. Using a single point heat source (such as a wood burning stove) in an uninsulated space is very much like sitting around a campfire. The building envelope will radiate heat far faster than you can pump it in from the other end of the building. If you do get enough btus into the stove room to get useful heat elsewhere the room will be uncomfortably hot.

Insulation allows the building to become more evenly heated - it allows you to use more - or even all of that space you are paying for. I have a place in the Rockies at nearly 9,000 ft. elevation. One of the main reasons I was able to purchase it is it was unaffordable to heat. Closing up the drafts, adding insulation, and adding insulating window treatments reduced my propane consumption by 80%. It made it possible to use the house 12 months a year.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I would first insulate and replace the windows, and then see what my heating requirements looked like. No sense putting half the forest through a monster stove to save $500 on vinyl replacement windows.

Hmmm...I'm guessing with 16' ceilings the windows are not little 2'x3's but probably more like picture windows, maybe even a wall of glass on one end. So replacement would be a lot more than $500! But window replacement is where I would be going with this too. Because there is a world of difference between having windows with an R-value of 0.9 vs. R-3!

I would also suggest one or two well placed ceiling fans. I way "well placed" because, with your lack of insulation, you want to minimize air currents blowing on the exterior walls.

 

[NateH]

Obviously updating windows and adding insulation will help heat the house but that doesn't really answer any (or most) of the OPs questions about the stove...

 

[jetsam]

Well, he's heating a 1500sf cabin. Insulating and fixing the windows is likely to completely change his stove requirements. He might appreciate 48 hour reloads!

 

[Thunderbird]

Well, he's heating a 1500sf cabin. Insulating and fixing the windows is likely to completely change his stove requirements. He might appreciate 48 hour reloads!

Well, he's heating a 1500sf cabin. Insulating and fixing the windows is likely to completely change his stove requirements. He might appreciate 48 hour reloads!

First off, I very much appreciate that I wrote this post yesterday afternoon and I have already received so many replies. thanks to all for your help

 

[Thunderbird]

Secondly, the recommendations made to improve the insulation and replace the windows are excellent suggestions. However, without going into a lengthy explanation, changing out the windows and adding insulation is not practical for my circumstances. The cabin is not drafty which I understand may seem odd given my description.

The stove will be heating the cabin primarily during Spring, Fall and then during the summer months when we are occasionally hit with a stretch of unseasonable cold weather.

My guess is that I will sometimes use the stove for a week at a time, or more, but that there will be many more times when I will just use the stove from the evening into the next morning, but it will warm up enough during the day that I will either let the fire die out and then restart it the following evening, or keep the coals going until I reload it again for the following evening.

There are times when it is too cold for comfort in the evening and early morning, but then it warms up during the day and I would prefer to reduce the heat being provided by the stove. That may involve opening up the sliding glass doors and letting outside air into the cabin to moderate the temperature.

I read online for several hours last night about the stoves that were suggested in yesterday's replies

Based on the suggestions made and other comments I have read in other threads, I am most seriously considering the following stoves: Progress Hybrid, Ideal Steel Hybrid, BK King, and Kuma Sequoia.

While I would like to minimize stove reloading, I have realized that more than half of the time when I am using the stove, I will only be using it from the evening into the following morning so long burn times, while that capability would still be worthwhile, is less important than it was.

I could simply build a fire with less wood when the stove would be needed for a 10-14 hour period and then I would still have the long burn option available when I needed it. There are times when it is warm enough in the winter that I could consider attempting to travel across the ice and visit my island for a 3-4 day weekend, but I doubt I would stay out here for extended periods of time during the winter.

The ability to manage the stove's heat output is an important consideration. My current interpretation of what I have read suggests the better stove style for heat control would be a cat stove. A more efficient stove is also better than not to minimize wood consumption to the extent that is possible given my window and insulation status.

I also have to be mindful about potential creosote build ups that could occur from running the stove at a low setting.

I am willing to spend whatever it takes to have the 'best' stove installed out here (but there probably isn't a one and only 'best stove') so whether or not my new stove has a 6 inch pipe of an 8 inch pipe does not concern me from a cost perspective, but it may matter from an installation and maintenance perspective.

I have learned quite a bit from the reading I have done to date on this forum. Comments made in this thread as well as other threads have helped me fine tune my understanding/recognition of how I will actually be using the stove and how that information may impact the suitability of the stove that I install.

Cheers to all for your thoughts, comments, suggestions, and observations

 

[begreen]

In this situation I would not put in a soapstone stove. If the woodstove is to get the cabin up to temperature quickly then I would put in a steel or cast iron stove for faster heating and I would get a stove with a blower option. It takes a lot of BTUs to heat up the air space and all the mass in a home from 50 to 70º. Due to the 16' ceilings this load is doubled, so the stove is heating twice the cubic footage. In this case the advantage of a cat stove is much less. You will mostly be pushing the stove hard for the first 6-8 hrs.. I would look into non-cat 3 cu ft stoves. There are many that will do the job made by Regency, Quadrafire, Pacific Energy, SBI (Drolet, Osburn, etc.).

 

[jetsam]

Every stove in your new short list has a lot of fans around here! +1 on avoiding soapstone if you're not insulating, though.

I would add a little bit to what begreen said for clarity:

...It takes a lot of BTUs ... In this case the advantage of a cat stove is much less. You will mostly be pushing the stove hard for the first 6-8 hrs..

No disagreement with anything he said, but to be clear cat stoves can burn just as high as non-cat stoves. If, after the initial heat-up, you want to burn low and slow, the cat is going to be better at that part. If you plan to burn it like a tube stove (burn a small fire when you need a little heat), that advantage doesn't matter to you.

 

[Thunderbird]

I really like the soapstone look, but I am going to choose function over appearance.

I anticipate that there will be times when I want to warm up the cabin early evening until mid morning the following day. There will also be cold stretches when I will want to run the stove for multiple days at a time.

If I am interpreting what has been said thus far reasonably accurately, a cat stove with a large firebox, like the Kuma Sequoia or the BK King stove would be two good choices. However, I want to look at the 4 stoves that were recommended by Begreen since I am not yet unfamiliar with any of them.

I have no problem spending the additional $$$ if the Cat feature provides me with an advantage on the days I need/want it.. Even if it is a low percentage of the time, I am happy to pay the extra $$$ to have the cat feature available. There will definitely be stretches of time when the cabin has been warmed up and I will want to shift gears to low and slow heating with my stove.

Have I analyzed the Cat feature aspect of my purchase decision accurately?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Given everything you have said, I like the idea of the BK King the best. With a nice supply of well-seasoned wood, you will be in woodstove heaven.

That said, one more comment on this:

Secondly, the recommendations made to improve the insulation and replace the windows are excellent suggestions. However, without going into a lengthy explanation, changing out the windows and adding insulation is not practical for my circumstances. The cabin is not drafty which I understand may seem odd given my description.

It sounds like there are more considerations than what you've shared, which is fine. You know what your situation is. I just wanted to point out that the reason it's not drafty is because you've never had it heated substantially above ambient temperature. Once you have a big stove in there cranking out the heat on a cold day you will get what's called cold air convection drafts. The tall ceilings, single pane glass and minimal insulation will insure it. The drafts don't come from the outside, they are created within the structure as the inside/outside temperature differential is increased. This may be acceptable to you if your idea is "roughing it" but with a nice source of heat. But don't expect it to not feel drafty on a cold day with a stove cranking.

 

[begreen]

If you are mostly up there for a long weekends checkout Drolet HT2000 if you prefer not to have to go up to an 8" flue system. Otherwise the huge Regency 5100 is worth checking out.

 

[Thunderbird]

Given everything you have said, I like the idea of the BK King the best. With a nice supply of well-seasoned wood, you will be in woodstove heaven.

That said, one more comment on this:



It sounds like there are more considerations than what you've shared, which is fine. You know what your situation is. I just wanted to point out that the reason it's not drafty is because you've never had it heated substantially above ambient temperature. Once you have a big stove in there cranking out the heat on a cold day you will get what's called cold air convection drafts. The tall ceilings, single pane glass and minimal insulation will insure it. The drafts don't come from the outside, they are created within the structure as the inside/outside temperature differential is increased. This may be acceptable to you if your idea is "roughing it" but with a nice source of heat. But don't expect it to not feel drafty on a cold day with a stove cranking.

WG, an entertaining observation for sure. I had no idea that what created/amplified drafty cabin conditions was the temperature differential between the outside and the inside. I have been using 5 electric wall heaters with fans to warm up the inside of the cabin on chilly mornings. Then I close up for the season before the temperature gets too cold.

My hope is that adding a wood stove will make it more comfortable for the 6-8 week time period when I technically could still use the cabin because the lake is not yet frozen, but I haven't because it is just too cold to be here.

 

[Thunderbird]

If you are mostly up there for a long weekends checkout Drolet HT2000 if you prefer not to have to go up to an 8" flue system. Otherwise the huge Regency 5100 is worth checking out.

Hi Begreen,

Thank you for the excellent suggestions. I will check all of them out. I don't know what the considerations are for choosing a 6 inch or an 8 inch pipe. If it is merely $$$, I will pay the extra $$$ for the better result. But if there are other reasons to like one over the other, I am not yet aware of what those reasons are.

 

[begreen]

Cost and bulk are the main reasons I lean toward a 6" flue. It is more common for modern stoves. That said a properly matched 8" flue will work fine if the stove you choose requires it.