New thimble install

[bholler]

Wish you would post more of your work on a weekly basis. Pictures are so much easier to understand. Thanks bholler.

I typically don't like posing pics of customers houses. But this time there was an active thread on the subject so I did.

 

[Louis]

Bringing this thread back up. I was in a chat with Rockford Chimney Supply about their insulated chimney thimble, same one bholler posted pics of installing on this conversation. They told me if not connecting to a SS liner system I need to install a clay crock in the new thimble hole then the insulated thimble.. explaining the clay crock would prevent gases from escaping because its mortared in, the insulated thimble is then put in place IN the clay crock, the stove pipe is then hooked up and the appliance is vented into the chimney. If using a SS liner, the clay crock is not needed and i can install the insulated thimble, connect the liner and all is good, since its a "closed" and lined system.

Im trying to grasp this, because on a standard setup.. my clay crock/thimble are in the wall connecting me to the mason chimney, mortared in to be sure no gases escape.. I put my stove pipe into said thimble, connecting to my wood stove.. but that stove pipe is not mortared in, so whats the difference of me using this insulated chimney thimble.. attaching it to my masonry chimney.. completing the install WITHOUT using a clay crock.. attaching my stove pipe to that insulated thimble and running it.

The chat representative didn't say the clay crock needs to be in place for another reason then escaping gases... I thought this insulated thimble was suppose to replace or go in place of a clay crock/thimble.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[bholler]

Bringing this thread back up. I was in a chat with Rockford Chimney Supply about their insulated chimney thimble, same one bholler posted pics of installing on this conversation. They told me if not connecting to a SS liner system I need to install a clay crock in the new thimble hole then the insulated thimble.. explaining the clay crock would prevent gases from escaping because its mortared in, the insulated thimble is then put in place IN the clay crock, the stove pipe is then hooked up and the appliance is vented into the chimney. If using a SS liner, the clay crock is not needed and i can install the insulated thimble, connect the liner and all is good, since its a "closed" and lined system.

Im trying to grasp this, because on a standard setup.. my clay crock/thimble are in the wall connecting me to the mason chimney, mortared in to be sure no gases escape.. I put my stove pipe into said thimble, connecting to my wood stove.. but that stove pipe is not mortared in, so whats the difference of me using this insulated chimney thimble.. attaching it to my masonry chimney.. completing the install WITHOUT using a clay crock.. attaching my stove pipe to that insulated thimble and running it.

The chat representative didn't say the clay crock needs to be in place for another reason then escaping gases... I thought this insulated thimble was suppose to replace or go in place of a clay crock/thimble.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

The new clay needs to be attached to the existing clay liner with refractory mortar and extend from there to the face of the masonry structure. The insulated crock is then attached and sealed to the masonry. The difference is without that crock creosote would be able to get outside the liner.

 

[bholler]

It is also not a Rockford chimney supply product. They are selling an Olympia product.

 

[HomeinPA]

Bringing this thread back up. I was in a chat with Rockford Chimney Supply about their insulated chimney thimble, same one bholler posted pics of installing on this conversation. They told me if not connecting to a SS liner system I need to install a clay crock in the new thimble hole then the insulated thimble.. explaining the clay crock would prevent gases from escaping because its mortared in, the insulated thimble is then put in place IN the clay crock, the stove pipe is then hooked up and the appliance is vented into the chimney. If using a SS liner, the clay crock is not needed and i can install the insulated thimble, connect the liner and all is good, since its a "closed" and lined system.

Im trying to grasp this, because on a standard setup.. my clay crock/thimble are in the wall connecting me to the mason chimney, mortared in to be sure no gases escape.. I put my stove pipe into said thimble, connecting to my wood stove.. but that stove pipe is not mortared in, so whats the difference of me using this insulated chimney thimble.. attaching it to my masonry chimney.. completing the install WITHOUT using a clay crock.. attaching my stove pipe to that insulated thimble and running it.

The chat representative didn't say the clay crock needs to be in place for another reason then escaping gases... I thought this insulated thimble was suppose to replace or go in place of a clay crock/thimble.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

If you look back at Bholler's post with the pics you will read that he indeed installed a terra-cotta crock, cemented to the tile and then the thimble around the crock. The thimble eliminates the need for the 12" of solid masonry around the crock, not the need for the crock. I imagine part of the logic being that some inept homeowner would stick the stovepipe just inside the thimble without running the pipe through it to the inside of the flue liner. That's just one of the potential problems.

 

[HomeinPA]

The new clay needs to be attached to the existing clay liner with refractory mortar and extend from there to the face of the masonry structure. The insulated crock is then attached and sealed to the masonry. The difference is without that crock creosote would be able to get outside the liner.

In your photo... did you slide the crock up to the face of the liner or through the hole to just inside the liner and cement around it?

 

[Louis]

If you look back at Bholler's post with the pics you will read that he indeed installed a terra-cotta crock, cemented to the tile and then the thimble around the crock. The thimble eliminates the need for the 12" of solid masonry around the crock, not the need for the crock. I imagine part of the logic being that some inept homeowner would stick the stovepipe just inside the thimble without running the pipe through it to the inside of the flue liner. That's just one of the potential problems.

Ahh yes, I should have gone back to re read the thread. Thought I remembered the conversations. I do see when bholler mentioned he did put a crock in and cemented it.

I have not opened the wall just yet, procrastinating and putting it off last minute. From what I can tell, measurements and eye balling... when I take the drywall off, I’ll have the 2x4 stud bay then the mason block.. drilling through the mason block, again assuming, the clay liner will be right there, butted against the interior of the mason block for the chimney. I would then also have to drill through the liner to get into the chimney itself. The insulated thimble attaches to the mason block, the piping goes inside the insulated thimble into the clay liner.. keeping the drywall away and use the provided face plate to hide the hole. Being that the insulated portion of the thimble is only in the 2x4 stud bay, with no flammables around it (assuming the 2 inch real still applies?)... this is still not a suitable install ? I would still need to install and cement in a clay crock from the clay liner.. through the 6-8 inches (GUESSING) of mason block chimney and the 2x4 stud bay? If not, Are there any thimbles I can install for this set up. I apologize for not fully grasping it. Really wish there were videos of different installs for these things.

 

[HomeinPA]

Yes there is a 2" clearance to combustibles from the outside of the thimble if I'm reading it correctly although I'm not sure because they made the damn diagram so small I can't even read it with my glasses on!

Your stud bay is probably only 14.5 inches. You will need to see what the instructions say for the rough opening required for your thimble. I think you have everything else pretty close with the possible exception that your terra cotta crock may need to stick out past the thimble up to 2" or so. That should also be listed in your install instructions though.

 

[bholler]

In your photo... did you slide the crock up to the face of the liner or through the hole to just inside the liner and cement around it?

Up to the face and then heatstopped in place

 

[bholler]

Yes there is a 2" clearance to combustibles from the outside of the thimble if I'm reading it correctly although I'm not sure because they made the damn diagram so small I can't even read it with my glasses on!

Your stud bay is probably only 14.5 inches. You will need to see what the instructions say for the rough opening required for your thimble. I think you have everything else pretty close with the possible exception that your terra cotta crock may need to stick out past the thimble up to 2" or so. That should also be listed in your install instructions though.

No the clay does not extend into the insulated thimble. It ends at the face of the masonry structure. There is then a stainless pipe that runs through both and gets secured with a clamp.

 

[Louis]

No the clay does not extend into the insulated thimble. It ends at the face of the masonry structure. There is then a stainless pipe that runs through both and gets secured with a clamp.

So the clay crock is only to connect the clay/terracotta liner to the face of the mason brick, correct? only if there is a gap between the clay liner and the mason brick is the clay crock needed? and if i install a liner, as mentioned by the chat rep, i do not need a clay crock in place?

I was reading the instructions for Safe - T thimble and it says a clay crock is RECOMMENDED, so to me that doesnt mean required. Is the insulated chimney thimble potentially the same way? just not worded that way. Ill be opening the wall very soon to get a better look and then drilling into the mason brick to see where the clay liner sits.

 

[bholler]

So the clay crock is only to connect the clay/terracotta liner to the face of the mason brick, correct? only if there is a gap between the clay liner and the mason brick is the clay crock needed? and if i install a liner, as mentioned by the chat rep, i do not need a clay crock in place?


I was reading the instructions for Safe - T thimble and it says a clay crock is RECOMMENDED, so to me that doesnt mean required. Is the insulated chimney thimble potentially the same way? just not worded that way. Ill be opening the wall very soon to get a better look and then drilling into the mason brick to see where the clay liner sits.

Yes the clay crock is to seal up the gap between the clay liner and the new insulated thimble. And if you install a as liner it is not needed

 

[bholler]

I haven't used a safe t thimble in a long time I don't remember the specifics.