new to epa stoves

[jaywiz]

ok guys I have done a ton of reading but still have a few questions I cant seem to find the answer to.
First a little info. I am new to the epa stoves but not new to wood heat.I bought and installed a osburn 2400 insert and insulated 6in liner into the masonary fireplace of my 1842 brick 3 story farm house.the chimney is exterior(but as I said its insulated1/2in and lined) and 30ft tall from the top of the insert to the cap.Draft is fine and strong.
I have no problem getting it lit, and can get it to 600 in about an hr from dead cold then get it to cruise for 6-8 hrs at 600 with the air totally closed.
My questions are how long till the new stove stink goes away(not smoke,but the new hot metal smell)?How long should I leave the door cracked to build heat,and how fast should it get to temp from dead cold(I work all day and am timid about letting it burn while no one is home).
the last question is about the secondaries,are they supposed to actually have flames coming from them or just air streams blowing flames across the top of the firebox?the flames dance lazy and I have no smoke from the top of the chimney but they don't seem to be doing anything but maybe fanning the flame. The box(firebrick) and glass are crystal clear(clean) and it burns completely to fine ash. Im just not sure im burning it completely right and the manual is no help at all!
Last question,How big are the splits you guys are using(a pic would be great)everyone talks about a full load of splits but from what im used to this stove wont hold a armload of kinlin!lol
I get two splints that fit in the other stove in this one and that's it(so do I need to split it smaller).

 

[JA600L]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. The smell will come back everytime you hit a new high temperature. I imagine it's gotta be about done with that.

From what you are describing from cold to 600 degrees I would wonder if you have too much draft . It sounds like the stove runs full tilt even when the air is cut back the whole way. A key damper in the stack would be ideal but I'm not sure how you do that with an insert.

The chimney (engine) for the stove might be a little too strong. You also want the stove to keep your heat in the house not get sucked up the chimney. Just my 2 cents.

Can you add a picture of your splits? We all have different ideas on split sizes. Nobody will be the same.

 

[rwhite]

Sounds like it's all running right to me. 6-8 hours is a pretty good burn. I had the smaller Osburn insert and I could get good heat for 5-6 hours and coals out to 7 or so. Are you running the fans at all? I always ran mine on low. Just enough air to get the heat out from the jacket. If I ran on high the stove cooked down fairly quick. Smell should go away soon.

 

[firefighterjake]

ok guys I have done a ton of reading but still have a few questions I cant seem to find the answer to. First off, welcome to the site.

First a little info. I am new to the epa stoves but not new to wood heat.I bought and installed a osburn 2400 insert and insulated 6in liner into the masonary fireplace of my 1842 brick 3 story farm house.the chimney is exterior(but as I said its insulated1/2in and lined) and 30ft tall from the top of the insert to the cap.Draft is fine and strong.

I have no problem getting it lit, and can get it to 600 in about an hr from dead cold then get it to cruise for 6-8 hrs at 600 with the air totally closed.Sounds like you have good wood and a good burning technique -- and that is pretty good as a lot of folks who make the switch to EPA stoves have a bit of learning curve as they realize the wood needs to be truly seasoned and the burning technique is a bit different.

My questions are how long till the new stove stink goes away(not smoke,but the new hot metal smell)?As the stove reaches new and higher temps you will get a bit of the new stove stink . . . it should go away in a few days . . . at least until you hit a new high temp. I still get a bit of smell once in a blue moon with my stove if the stove is running too hot -- it's more of a hot metal smell and when I first fire it up in the fall and the dust is burning off.

How long should I leave the door cracked to build heat,and how fast should it get to temp from dead cold(I work all day and am timid about letting it burn while no one is home). The answer to this question really depends on the draft and stove. With my stove I keep the door cracked anywhere from 10-20 minutes depending on how well the fire is burning, but other folks may need more or less time. I use my flue thermometer to determine when to shut the door and start closing off the air (no real help for you with an insert, but you might be able to use the stove temp as a guide).

the last question is about the secondaries,are they supposed to actually have flames coming from them or just air streams blowing flames across the top of the firebox?the flames dance lazy and I have no smoke from the top of the chimney but they don't seem to be doing anything but maybe fanning the flame. The box(firebrick) and glass are crystal clear(clean) and it burns completely to fine ash. Im just not sure im burning it completely right and the manual is no help at all! Secondaries vary from stove to stove . . . some folks see secondaries that look like the jets from a gas grill, others have the ghost flames burning at the very top of the fire box . . . oftentimes these flames appear to be moving rather slowly (lazy if you would). The fact that you see no smoke, the glass is clean and you don't end up with a lot of charcoal says to me that you have decent wood and are burning like a pro. Give yourself a big ol' pat on the back!

Last question,How big are the splits you guys are using(a pic would be great)everyone talks about a full load of splits but from what im used to this stove wont hold a armload of kinlin!lol Over time my splits have tended to be smaller than when I first started . . . simply because I find it easier to load the stove with the smaller sized splits (well that and I have a hydraulic splitter so splitting wood isn't so much of a chore.) That said, I like to have a variety of splits on hand ranging from small (easily grasped in one hand) to large rectangles or squares (that I can pack into the stove for a longer burn overnight.)
I get two splints that fit in the other stove in this one and that's it(so do I need to split it smaller).

 

[jaywiz]

may have been 11/2hrs to 600( I was mesmerized alittle)it does drop off to about 500 cruise after about 2hrs or so.the blower comes on and have to sett it to low or it will melt your eyebrows across the room.the first floor is fairly open and about 1500sqft with a open staircase upstairs.first floor was 75 and stayed there 73 upstairs for most of the burn.
biggest question is about the secondaries.

 

[jaywiz]

thank you, your answers helped a ton!

like I said im not new to wood heat,just new to the new stoves,i have a wood furnace in my shop and that holds a pile of wood(but also is a huge unit)and will take much larger splits.
I have a log splitter as well so it doesn't matter much to me,just wanted to know if it would burn better(longer/cleaner) with a bunch of smaller or two logs that just go through the door.lol

 

[JA600L]

thank you, your answers helped a ton!

like I said im not new to wood heat,just new to the new stoves,i have a wood furnace in my shop and that holds a pile of wood(but also is a huge unit)and will take much larger splits.
I have a log splitter as well so it doesn't matter much to me,just wanted to know if it would burn better(longer/cleaner) with a bunch of smaller or two logs that just go through the door.lol

I would use a combination of split sizes. Smaller splits off gas quickly making a peaked burn but don't last long.
Larger splits give up their gasses slower making for a more even longer less peaked burn.

An epa stove is designed to cook the smoke out of the wood. So more surface area means quicker hotter fires.

 

[jaywiz]

got it !thank you.

 

[rwhite]

To answer the questions on secondaries . ..it depends. Although it appears there is sometimes flames coming from the tubes it is just air. Under certain conditions the smoke will ignite right at the tube and give the impression. If you don't have smoke coming out of the chimney and you getting long burns you are doing it right.

 

[NW Pa Burner]

The smell will go away after you get it warmed up well a couple times but will come back in the fall for the first fire each year. As rwhite said if you don't have smoke coming out of chimney and the gases are hot enough that the secondaries are firing you are in good shape. When I burn with the Osburn 2400 I use smaller splits such that I can fit 7 to 9 splits in there on a full reload. Usually run three across the floor EW and then one beside them NS and then stuff it full for the long burns. The only thing with the 2400 is you cant choke it down, not that you want to. Load if full, get it up to temp, then shut the air all the way and let burn.

 

[huauqui]

Welcome! Keep updating us on how it is going please.

 

[jaywiz]

will do, so far so good last night kept the whole place about 72 all night, then the wife got up this morning and it was just ashes. She threw a log in(she is trying to help) and never opened the air control back up. So when I got up, I had a smoldering mess, fogged up glass, a stove that was about 150 degrees, and a huge log that was caught just enough that I didn't want to pull it out to start over. I have to give her some lessons.lol The problem I am having is I can get it burning good in the evening and get it to go most the night. When I get up in the morning the stove is still warm and can manage to get it going again but when I come home from work(12hrs) its cold again. This is a supplement heat source so the house is warm, but back to square one....
how do you guys over come such a time frame? I am not letting the kids touch the thing, so there is no one there to tend it.

 

[edyit]

12 hrs on a noncatalytic stove is tough, best advice if you don't have hard wood that leaves lots of coals is to invest in some super cedars to make it easier to relight. if you do have coals, split up a bunch of kindling and use it to get it going again.

 

[jaywiz]

well it is what it is.i just relight every night after work.gives me a decently cool stove to shovel out ash anyway. I think I have got the hang of this thing I get 4-6hr burns on avg(depending on the wood I shove into it).I still don't understand the secondarys though . only time I ever see anything happening there is if the stove is freshly reloaded to the max , or upon start up with a top down start.
it likes to cruise between 500 to 600 and blows air out of the vents that will melt your eyebrows . lol
One question I do have is where should I be checking the temps? I have a rutland center of the top (where the smoke would be going around the baffle) and have a ir that agrees with it , but as it is an insert there are not many places to shoot for. I shoot the laser in and can hit the base of the flue but the paperwork that came with the ir says it is a cone shaped reading that spreads out the farther away you are.

 

[kennyp2339]

(I work all day and am timid about letting it burn while no one is home

Hopefully that wears off after a while, Im more concerned with my oil fired boiler running during the day than my wood burner, there much more volatile if something were to go wrong.

 

[jaywiz]

Hopefully that wears off after a while, Im more concerned with my oil fired boiler running during the day than my wood burner, there much more volatile if something were to go wrong.

yeah I got past that real quick , I load it up before work and come home to enough hot coals to relight. I let it go every fourth day so I can shovel it out...only complaint so far , I'm spoiled with a ash drawer in the garage

 

[begreen]

No need to let it go out cold. Let the coal bed burn down, then with an ash rake or poker move the remaining hot coals to one side and shovel the ash out from the non-coal side. Then move the hot coals to the shoveled side and shovel out the ash there too. Be sure the coals only go into a metal container and that container is not set on a combustible surface.

 

[kennyp2339]

Which reminds me... to all new burners, store your used ashes in a metal bucket with locking lid OUTSIDE for a week before dumping them, Hot ash still produces CO and should never be stored inside any living spaces.
Also to the few that burn walnut species..do not dump the ashes in any gardens, the ashes are toxic and will change the soil ph which will hurt vegetable plants and most flowers.

 

[jaywiz]

No need to let it go out cold. Let the coal bed burn down, then with an ash rake or poker move the remaining hot coals to one side and shovel the ash out from the non-coal side. Then move the hot coals to the shoveled side and shovel out the ash there too. Be sure the coals only go into a metal container and that container is not set on a combustible surface.

That's what I been doing , I just don't load it before work. All ashes and coals are stored out back in a garbage can.

I did not know about the walnut being toxic to plantsI burn a lot of walnut and may have killed the wife's garden last year then.whoops!

 

[begreen]

Not sure if the toxic component is destroyed by burning. Seems to be, but I have never personally tested this.
(broken link removed to https://ask.extension.org/questions/155904)

 

[Coyoterun]

Walnut ashes are toxic? How do organic compounds survive an EPA stove? Does anyone have first hand experience with that actually happening?
I understand that too much wood ash will raise the soil pH, and that can be bad depending where it starts, but are walnut ashes really any worse than anyother hardwood ashes?


Edit: begreen already posted a link while I was typing.

 

[redyute]

Il load the stove when I get home from work around 3:30 with a load of oak, get her up to1300° cat temp then cut the air almost fully closed with the fan on medium speed, then re load before bed at around 10pm. I leave for work at 4:45 and throw a few pieces in to keep it going till 7:30 when my wife load it up with a 10 pack of liberty brick before she leaves for work. At 3:30 when I get home from work the house is 75° and still have some coal stove top warm. All I do is rake it and reload with more oak and the cycle continues, My point is I have no issues or worries letting her burn with no one home, nothing beats walking into 75° when its 30°° outside

 

[jaywiz]

ha, then I'm still innocent!lol