New (to me) Woodstock Soapstone Keystone First Fire

[mmcc]

I hooked up my new Woodstock Soapstone Keystone to the flue and had my first fire today.

I ended up placing the stove in front of my existing hearth instead of on it. It is sitting on a large slab of sandstone, which is in turn sitting on 4" cinder blocks. The cinder blocks are directly under the legs of the stove, and since they are not readily visible, it makes the stone look a bit like it is floating. In case you are wondering, there is a bit of upward tilt to the horizontal stove pipe run.

Since my dry firewood supply is rather low, I burned a pack of ecobricks. It seems to be working quite well. There was no problem establishing a draft. I'm 4 1/2 hours into the burn, and there seems to be a significant amount of fuel left.

 

[webby3650]

Why not set the stove on the existing hearth?

 

[Woody Stover]

Not quite enough room out front, and 9 bricks is too low for the stove to slide back into the fireplace. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-to-me-woodstock-soapstone-keystone.160166/#post-2151377

 

[Woody Stover]

What kind of stove top temp were you getting there? Was the cat glowing? If you are running that much flame, it will eat some of the smoke and you may not see the cat glowing. I generally only have flame at the beginning of the cruise, once I close the bypass. That's with the air at maybe 1.25 for maybe 10 min. or so. Then I cut the air to somewhere between .5-1.0 and let the cat eat. It will generally glow for three hrs. or so and the stove top may be 500-550. From there, the cat will stop glowing and the temp will slowly drop.
Right now, I think I'm at about 8 hrs. and 250 STT...can't remember exactly when I loaded. There is enough intact coaling splits to where I could open the air to 1.5, get faint flame, and STT would go back up around 300 for at least a couple more hrs.

 

[Woody Stover]

I re-looked at your pic; From that angle, you would be able to see the cat...apparently the flame is eating the smoke and the cat isn't glowing, or at 4 hrs. the load has gassed out, burning at that rate. Did you go outside with a flashlight to see what's coming out of the flue?

 

[webby3650]

Not quite enough room out front, and 9 bricks is too low for the stove to slide back into the fireplace. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-to-me-woodstock-soapstone-keystone.160166/#post-2151377

Seems like a hearth extension would be a lot easier to deal with and eliminate the long horizontal run. Unless the stove won't physically fit on the hearth, looks like it will though?

 

[Woody Stover]

Seems like a hearth extension would be a lot easier to deal with and eliminate the long horizontal run. Unless the stove won't physically fit on the hearth, looks like it will though?

Yeah, and he may still considering that...but I think he was chompin' at the bit to try his "new" stove out. He says it's drafting OK as far as that goes. My BIL is running my old Fireview on 13.5', and the Ks is an easy breather as well.
BTW, @mmcc, how tall is the chimney?

 

[mmcc]

I'm writing this on my phone while sitting in a Starbucks waiting for the roads to get cleared enough for me to get to the airport. My stupid car floats on snow...

Anyway...
- Existing hearth isn't quite deep enough for the stove, and lintel height was really tight. It was a lot easier to put it farther out in the room, and my wife approved.

- Chimney is 25' or so I'd say- two story colonial with attic, chimney has good clearance. The bottom part is enclosed in my garage, which gives it some insulation. I had no problem getting a draft going.

- The picture was from early in the burn, not at 4hrs. When you say the cat glows, does the scoop glow? It was glowing some during the burn after I bumped the air down but not for 3 hrs. I don't think stove top temp got above 400-450. I had the thermometer toward the back on the left hand top panel. I have a flue thermometer on its way so I can check that as well.

- I didn't check out the smoke - next time...

Thanks for all the comments and advice!

 

[armanidog]

Looks great! I have an old house and faced the same problem with the lintel too low and the hearth not deep enough to sit my stove on it. We cut a hole above the lintel and ran the tee snout through the hole. Grouted around the snout and with the collar on it looks nice.
Was going to add to the hearth but it was collapsing so we built a new 4' x 4' brick hearth.
I have the Englander NC-30. Very happy.
Is the stove and sandstone sitting on a slab or floor joists? If it is floor joists you may want to reinforce them just to keep them from sagging and getting a low area in the floor.

 

[Woody Stover]

Chimney is 25' or so

Stainless liner all the way to the top?

The picture was from early in the burn, not at 4hrs. When you say the cat glows, does the scoop glow? It was glowing some during the burn after I bumped the air down but not for 3 hrs. I don't think stove top temp got above 400-450. I had the thermometer toward the back on the left hand top panel. I have a flue thermometer on its way so I can check that as well.

Oh, OK. I don't think you are gonna see that cast iron scoop glow unless you had a roaring blaze in the box (which I never want to see.) I want a lively fire in the box, enough to get the flue temp up where I want it, using the least amount of air possible. I want that heat staying in the box, not going up the flue as happens with the air open too much, and I also want to burn up the least amount of wood I can getting up to light-off temp. Can't get a lot into a that small box, gotta use it wisely.
Like I said, you'll find you can run the stove using just the flue meter; Bring it up to x degrees, cut the air to hold it there for x minutes, and you'll get a quick light-off almost every time. Back to the glow...maybe it wasn't glowing, you could possibly be seeing the cat glow reflecting off the scoop.
The hottest spot on the top is right in front of the top flue outlet/small stove, pretty much where you have the meter in your second pic. If you had those temps on one of the outside panels, it's quite possible that the location in the pic would have yielded 500 or better.

I didn't check out the smoke - next time...

Checking the flue outside from time to time can tell you a few things. The cat can be working, even if it's not glowing. This might happen soon after you close the bypass (but I like to see it glowing pretty soon after I close it.) About 3-4 hrs. into the burn, the cat will stop glowing but it's still working because the stove temp is staying up over 300. Checking the flue outside will tell you the cat is still working, and not dropping out too soon. Once the load is down to coals there is no more fuel for the cat and the stove top meter will drop to 250 or lower, unless you open up the air a bit.

 

[huauqui]

Glad to see it is working for you. Can't wait to see what you think of it after some more use.

 

[Woody Stover]

Can't wait to see what you think of it after some more use.

I think he may well end up liking it a great deal.
Have you run the Fireview that's in your sig, yet?

It looks like you are supporting your tee with some concrete blocks (and a large industrial switch plate). Is that correct?

Yeah, it's just there as kind of a safety, not much weight on it...the liner is held mainly by the top clamp/top plate on top of the clay liner. Considerable weight... 16' of Homesaver RoundFlex.

 

[huauqui]

I think he may well end up liking it a great deal.
Have you run the Fireview that's in your sig, yet?

As long as the install works well I know he will love the stove.

Yes I have run the Fireview, used it for about 3 months in the basement over a year ago. It is such a joy to use and give wonderful heat just not enough for my house, at least from the basement. So put in a used Summit I rebuilt which gave enough heat but proved, with my chimney at least, uncontrollable. So the fireview went back in early this fall and carried me through until my new Princess arrived. I will put the Fireview in the living room upstairs. It will be used for those times when we just need to knock the chill off or have a fire to sit next to. Of course I can also use supplement during bitter cold so I can maintain the 12 hour cycle for the BK. But may never do that since because the Princess is really working out well for us.

here is a pic of the fireview running (I absolutely love this stove its looks, the consistent heat, good burn times etc......)

 

[mmcc]

-supporting the joists sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately I think the furnace is in the way. I'll have to check.

- Liner goes all the way to the top.

- I think the glowing I was seeing on the scoop was just black crud burning off.

- I'll report back when I add the flue thermometer to the mix.

Thanks again!

 

[Woody Stover]

here is a pic of the fireview running (I absolutely love this stove its looks, the consistent heat, good burn times etc......)

Oh yeah, that pic had slipped my mind. If your chair, couch, or wherever you sit is within 20' of the Fv, I know darn well you are gonna fire it up from time to time, just to feel that penetrating radiation warmth.

I'll report back when I add the flue thermometer to the mix.

OK, looking forward to more operational reports...with pics.

 

[beardley]

What kind of stove top temp were you getting there? Was the cat glowing? If you are running that much flame, it will eat some of the smoke and you may not see the cat glowing. I generally only have flame at the beginning or the cruise, once I close the bypass. That's with the air at maybe 1.25 for maybe 10 min. or so. Then I cut the air to somewhere between .5-1.0 and let the cat eat. It will generally glow for three hrs. or so and the stove top may be 500-550. From there, the cat will stop glowing and the temp will slowly drop.
Right now, I think I'm at about 8 hrs. and 250 STT...can't remember exactly when I loaded. There is enough intact coaling splits to where I could open the air to 1.5, get faint flame, and STT would go back up around 300 for at least a couple more hrs.

Woody, During this time, are you saying you have no flame, and just a glowing cat? I'm on my 3rd year with the Keystone and more often than not, if I drop to .5 and go to a cat only burn, the SST will keep climbing, over 700, so I generally stick to 1 or .75. I've got the thermometer right up tight to the top flue exit, centered. I've got the diesel foil cat in the cast frame like the OP has.

mmcc, BTW, you've got yourself a great stove!

 

[Woody Stover]

Woody, During this time, are you saying you have no flame, and just a glowing cat? I'm on my 3rd year with the Keystone and more often than not, if I drop to .5 and go to a cat only burn, the SST will keep climbing, over 700, so I generally stick to 1 or .75.

Yes, cat only, no flame. Never really goes much above 600. If it's cold out, I might cut the air under .5. I have a 16' liner. Can you describe your chimney setup?
When you open up the air to .75 or 1, then you have some flame going, eating the smoke to keep the cat under control? Is the cat glowing super-bright when you go cat-only? When that thing is glowing to where you can't see the individual cells, that's really hot!

 

[Rearscreen]

and my wife approved.

Holy crap. A miracle.

 

[Woody Stover]

@beardley, what happens if you keep cutting the air, even closing it all the way, does the STT stay under 700? What happens if you cut the air low right after light-off?

 

[mmcc]

If it's cold out, I might cut the air under .5.

Wait wait wait... if you want more heat you cut the air down? I would think that whether the smoke was being burned in the firebox or being combusted in the cat, it would be the same total energy being generated. Or is the idea that since less air is being used, less heat is going up the stack?

Is a 700 degree stove top temperature safe for the stove?

 

[Woody Stover]

Wait wait wait... if you want more heat you cut the air down? I would think that whether the smoke was being burned in the firebox or being combusted in the cat, it would be the same total energy being generated. Or is the idea that since less air is being used, less heat is going up the stack? Is a 700 degree stove top temperature safe for the stove?

I should have been clearer...I was just trying to say that I can run the stove on less air if it's cold out since draft is stronger. I usually don't run the stove with much, if any, flame in the box, although the sides will get a bit hotter when I do that. The stove will put out more heat, but yes, more will go up the flue too. Also, the stove may not burn as cleanly if the smoke gets pulled through too fast and doesn't get the time to burn completely (I still need to experiment further and watch the stack when I have the air open more, as this is not the way I usually run my stove.) If I need more heat, I usually just open up the air once the load is coaling and not giving off smoke for the cat. This keeps stove temp up until I can get a fresh load in there and get the STT back up there to 550 or better.
If you read the manual, which I suggest everyone do several times with any manual , you'll see that they recommend staying under 700 STT.

 

[Woody Stover]

Watch it with those bricks; I've read that they can get a stove pretty hot. Don't use too many at once, and pack 'em tight to reduce the surface area that can gas at the outset.

 

[Woody Stover]

more often than not, if I drop to .5 and go to a cat only burn, the SST will keep climbing, over 700

I wonder weather you have an air leak somewhere, making it hard to control the gassing of the wood with the primary air control. My stove had a small leak from day one, into the box from the left front vertical seam. I'm guessing the cement may have gotten loosened in shipping. Or maybe was a bad cement job at the plant but I don't want to believe that, being the fanboy that I am. As that cement slowly got looser and more air got into the box, eventually I lost control of the burn to the point that, even with the air cut all the way, I couldn't stay below 500+ STT. The way I figured it out was that if I was ramping stove temp up and had a lot of wood burning, then cut the air so the flame went out, I could see the heavy smoke in the box igniting along that seam, due to the oxygen coming in. Does the stove seem to burn hotter on one side, or does the coal bed seem to glow very brightly? (It will glow there somewhat, due to a small hole in the ash pan housing that allows a little air in to keep the splits in the back burning at low air settings, and keep coal buildup in check.) With a dollar bill, check how well your door and ash pan gaskets are sealing; There should be a fair amount of resistance when you latch the door and try to pull the bill out. Test the gasket all the way around its perimeter. You could also use an incense stick along the seams on the outside of the stove, around the door and ash pan gaskets, etc, to see if air is being drawn into the stove anywhere when the stove is running and it's cold out and draft is strong.

 

[beardley]

I wonder weather you have an air leak somewhere, making it hard to control the gassing of the wood with the primary air control. My stove had a small leak from day one, into the box from the left front vertical seam. I'm guessing the cement may have gotten loosened in shipping. Or maybe was a bad cement job at the plant but I don't want to believe that, being the fanboy that I am. As that cement slowly got looser and more air got into the box, eventually I lost control of the burn to the point that, even with the air cut all the way, I couldn't stay below 500+ STT. The way I figured it out was that if I was ramping stove temp up and had a lot of wood burning, then cut the air so the flame went out, I could see the heavy smoke in the box igniting along that seam, due to the oxygen coming in. Does the stove seem to burn hotter on one side, or does the coal bed seem to glow very brightly? (It will glow there somewhat, due to a small hole in the ash pan housing that allows a little air in to keep the splits in the back burning at low air settings, and keep coal buildup in check.) With a dollar bill, check how well your door and ash pan gaskets are sealing; There should be a fair amount of resistance when you latch the door and try to pull the bill out. Test the gasket all the way around its perimeter. You could also use an incense stick along the seams on the outside of the stove, around the door and ash pan gaskets, etc, to see if air is being drawn into the stove anywhere when the stove is running and it's cold out and draft is strong.

I have a internal brick / clay flue chimney, about 25' from the thimble to the cap. I do have a pipe damper that I'll use if its really windy, but generally that stays open.

When it goes to a cat only burn (no flame) It will slowly raise until the cat is bright red like you described. The whole thing looks like a glowing ember. I don't let it stay like that for too terribly long, but if I get a little flame back in the box, it cools the SST back to reasonable ~550. Perhaps a do have a leak, as it does seem to burn a bit stronger on the left side, opposite the door. This fall I did change the door gasket because I was seeing shiney creosote on the edge of the door frame. It passes the dollar bill test, but that creosote hasn't gone away. . .

I haven't tried your other suggestion of cutting the air completely. I've got a load coming up to temp now, just engaged the cat. I'll give that a shot after a get a can only burn established.