New to wood burning, need help with stove size

[sandyO]

Hello everyone!

My husband and I live in northern Michigan and are putting a 16x40 rectangular addition on to our home. It will have 6-inch walls with R-19 in them and then r-30 in the roof. We'd like to put a wood stove in the addition, which will have a 4-foot wide doorway into the living/dining/kitchen area of our house (about 450 square feet). Our whole house will then be about 1400 sq. feet, but the bedrooms are down a narrow hallway off the living room so I'm kind of counting on them staying cool or getting heated by the LP furnace. It looks like we're looking to heat about 1000 sq. feet with the wood stove.

OK, here's my dilemna...I've been listening to two main arguments about stove sizes. The first is that we should be looking at a small stove that we would run hot so it operates at optimum efficiency and won't build up creosote. The second is to get a larger one and only build small fires in it so we don't end up opening the windows in January because the stove is putting off too much heat. My husband can get Napoleon stoves from work at a discount, so we've been looking at those. Apparently he can get the 1400 (maunfacture's site says it heats 1,000 - 2,000 sq. feet and operates at 11,400 - 41,300 BTUs.) for about $950 because it's last year's model and that's the one the guy is trying to push on us. I'm not sure if that's too much stove for our needs and maybe all we need is the 1100 (or the cool 1100P wood gourmet) which says it heats 600-1000 feet at 11,700 - 42,200 BTUs. A lot of guys I talk to seem to worry about a small firebox needing constant feeding and they talk like bigger is better because then we can run the stove on low and feed it less often...but then I've heard that really builds up creosote...but then someone said they just add some "creosote cleaning powder" to the fire and that clears it up...HELP I hope someone can offer some good advice. Thanks in advance----Sandy

 

[Todd]

Personally I would go with the larger firebox. Anything under a 2 cu ft firebox is going to have a short burn time, and loading more often. If your looking for a longer overnight burn go with the bigger stove. It is true however, that a larger stove you tend to choke it down with less air and it can produce more creosote, but if your firewood is good and dry you shouldn't have a problem with that. Also with you being in a northern environment you may need that larger firebox capacity for those below zero winter days.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Sandy, what do you anticipate as your burning pattern in the winter? Will the stove be burning 24/7 or mostly evenings and weekends?

I agree, the 1400 is not too large. If it's not too cold out, you always have the option of burning smaller fires or one fire and let it burn out. But when it's blowing hard and 20 outside, you will appreciate the additional heat and longer burning fires. It also means a lot less fussing with the stove, less mess and you'll get a larger view of the fire in the bargain. Don't worry too much about the stated sq ft heated, those numbers tend to be a bit optimistic at times and vary a lot with house construction and outside weather conditions.

With the 1400, you'll be happy with the decision come December, so go for the 1400, it's a nice stove but check that price, seems a tad high, but I don't know what accessories or trim packages were added. If it has the enamel sides, blower and a fancy door, that is a good price.

And if you get a chance, take some pictures of the installation.

Here is a site selling Napoleons. They were the first on a Google search. Use for comparison pricing.
http://www.big-georges.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2590

 

[sandyO]

We are planning on heating with it 24/7 during the heating season. Someone is home all day so it'll be going all day. Thanks, BTW, for the link to Big Georges--they do have better prices and they're in Michigan to boot!

 

[begreen]

If you are planning on 24/7 burning, then there is no question, go with the larger stove and order your wood now so that it can be stacked and drying for the winter.

 

[builderbob]

You can also check out the stove reviews here at Hearth.com.

You'll find that Napoleon seems to get consistently good reviews no matter which the model. I think there are too several reviews specifically on the 1400.

BTB

 

[clkeever]

I would advocate the larger firebox: you can always damper it back. What kind of stove were you leaning toward?
ck

 

[BrotherBart]

I just looked at the specs on the 1100 and the 1400. They are exactly the same stove except for firebox depth. Same height, width, door the works.

Get the 1400 and just put less wood in it if it burns too hot. Then you will have the extra capacity if you need longer burns.

 

[builderbob]

Here is link to first page of Napoleon stove reviews. There are several more pages you can scroll to from there. The reviews generally say when the reviewer bought the stove, how much they paid, their satisfaction with the unit, the manufacturer, and the dealer, and their specific likes and dislikes comments abotu their stove.

Check it out.

https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php

BTB

 

[sandyO]

Thanks, everyone, I sure appreciate all your thoughts and opinions. I'm definately going to check out the reviews. BTW, we're on almost 300 acres of woods, woods, woods, so it's not as much ordering as it is getting a break from house-building to do more wood chopping. I don't know how much we have out there, maybe a cord? One stack is about 5 feet high, 16 feet long and about 18" (one log) wide...but it's all poplar. We have mostly poplar and maple, unfortunately. The other stack is 1/2 that and all maple. We found some nice straight ones that are dead and still standing and hard as rocks. We'll get to 'em. THat was another question I had, how much wood will we need? I see a lot of people around us with TONS of wood, but I figured that since we were kind of heating 1/2 the house (we still have the LP furnace) that we wouldn't need as much. We'll find out sooner or later

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Sandy, you need to aim at having 2-3 years minimum firewood on hand so it has time to season well. Not sure where you are in N. MI but for sure what you have is not nearly enough. Poplar is what we call gopher wood. Put some in and quick go fer some more. It will not hold a fire over night for sure. Probably the maple you have is soft maple but I'm only guessing. Maple for sure needs to be seasoned else you will really have some big time problems with creosote.

How much wood for the winter? A good guestimate for northern MI woudl be 4-6 full cords. Beware, in Michigan most think a cord of wood is a stack 4' high and 8' long with the wood cut to 16". That is a rick or face cord. A full cord of wood is 4x4x8 or 128 cubic feet. If you are burning that poplar you would need a lot more to heat through the winter. Maple is much better. Do you have some oak or beech there? Much better yet.

 

[begreen]

If you're burning 24/7 I'm guessing you can figure going through 3-5 cords this winter. Once you see those propane bills shrinking, you'll be stoking a lot more wood.

 

[Gooserider]

I think if you look through all the threads on the forum where people are complaining about getting the wrong size stove, at least 95-98% will be saying they got a stove that was to small... Ignore mfgr statements about BTU outputs, burn times, and areas heated, all are mostly figments of the sales department's imagination. The only really useful figure is the firebox size, and that will determine your heat output and burn times, if you plan on burning 24/7 and want to be able to sleep through the night and have enough coals left to get the stove going in the morning, you need at least a 2-2.5 cubic foot firebox. If you have fast burning wood, or a lot of space to heat, you should go for bigger, but that doesn't sound like your situation, so I'd agree with the 1400 recomendation.

As to how much wood you'll need, it's always hard to tell with a new install, and you always tend to go through extra with a new stove while learning. My current stove is a not very efficient pre-EPA smoke dragon, and I go through about 5-6 FULL cords in a New England winter - I burned most of my two woodsheds FULL - the larger shed is approx 16' long, 8' wide, and 7' high, the smaller one is 16' long, 3' wide and 7' high... Your wood should be seasoned a minimum of 9 months, preferably 12-18 months, so you are already pushing the limits on getting ready for this season. I know you say you have "standing dead" wood, but people who check their wood with moisture meters will tell you that it doesn't start to season until the tree is on the ground, cut, split and preferably under cover.

Gooserider

 

[sandyO]

Our addition isn't totally finished, but it's done enough to have it open to our house (single-wide mobile home) and the wood stove has been been up and running for practically the whole month of November. I remember exactly when we started it for the duration (Nov 4) as that's when my son and husband returned from boy scout camp. THey had been gone all weekend and instead of running the stove I let the furnace kick on a few times in the morning. Boy, did I feel like I was wasting $$$ running that furnace!

Anyhow, I'm not sure how much wood we ended up getting split, but I'm almost 99% sure we'll be fine. We took down a lot of ash, more maple and my husband even has the go-ahead to cut down all the oak he wants to at work (they're on 5 acres of oak and the boss just sees the trees as nuisances---what a pity). Those were green so all that plus the walnut he was given is already in a pile waiting to be split in the spring and there's plenty more where that came from. I am much more opimisic about wood burning than I was when I first posted on hearth.com.

I'd also like to thank you guys for your advice on going with the bigger stove (we went with the 1400 instead of the 1100). I don't see how it would be possible to have a decent coal bed left in the morning with the smaller stove. Plus, we're heating the entire house...the heat just flows right up from the addition and into the rest of the house. It's slightly cooler in the bedrooms as they're the ones down the hallway, but that's ok because I WANT it cooler in the bedrooms anyway! When it's between 25-45 outside and the stove is really blasting away it's about 85 in here (ugg! My husband loves it, but I prefer it a little cooler, ESPECAILLY when I am trying to sleep!). Dampered down it keeps it about 75 in here. It hasn't been much colder than 25 yet, but I'm looking forward to the real cold so we can see what this stove can do. Bring it on, winter, we're ready for you

 

[elkimmeg]

Sandy I checked the pricing on the 1400 that is a very good price it is what one expects to pay from the distributor or it is at dealers cost.

Napoleon are well built stoves the difference besids the size is the look the 1400 is a plate steel stove the 1100 is castiron but slightly smaller fire box.

either one should do the job, but that price It is hard to ignore the 1400. You are not going to find it cheaper what was the price for the 1100?

BTw it can be dressed up[ with gold trim around the door and cast iron gold legs but at quite a cost like $700 more

 

[Todd]

Good to hear that everything is working out for you. Happy Thanksgiving, and happy burning.

 

[jpl1nh]

Sandy, with all that acreage, hopefully you have some standing dead which you won't have to season much, just make sure its dry. That could be good burning for this year. Be careful taking it down since standing dead can break off and drop. Ouch or worse! Hope your hearing a strong consensus to go for the larger. Control heat output with load size but and always use the driest most seasoned wood available and burn it hot. If it gets to warm, wait longer between loads. Good luck!

 

[sandyO]

Hello all!

I just wanted to say that it's been a year of heating with our stove and we will never go back to propane. Of course the old furnace still sits there and we're sure thankful for it when it comes time to take a winter vacation, but that's about the only time we'll run it.

The way the whole set up worked out was excellent. The whole house is heated no problem, and I can get the bedrooms cooler just by shutting the door. I'm really glad we went with the larger stove. I can't imagine having a small woodbox and trying to make it overnight. Also, we've figured that we probably went through 4 cord at the most last year and this year we've had our year's supply done by spring. It's so much more relaxing knowing that all the work is done. Of course when there's an opportunity to get more wood we just throw the logs on the stack, ready for the splitting when the chance is there. We probably have enough for 2 years, but my husband always wants more!

Thanks again to all those who gave help and advice when we were jsut starting out. It's so frustrating when you've never had experience heating with wood and you've got differing opinions coming at you from all directions. Just doing it is the best experience I suppose, but with advice from those who have been there it makes it easier.

Well, I'm off to find a newbie to give some advice to!

Thanks again,
Sandy

 

[Gooserider]

Sounds great, glad things worked out well for you... Now find some more Newbies to pass it on, and pay it forward...

Gooserider