New user, new to stoves, need serious guidance!

[Darbyhearth]

Hi there! I've been anonymously reading for a few weeks now in an effort to fully research buying the proper stove or insert for our home.

We have an old (1847) home and are looking at taking some heat (pun intended!) off of our yearly propane costs by installing a freestanding or insert stove. The house is 1,750 square feet located in central Virginia. It's also very poorly insulated in the original rooms. I've already spoken with a local chimney company who has explained the need to have a 6" liner installed.

Our fireplace measures as follows:

Opening - 39.5"w 34.5"h 17"d
Hearth extension - 24.5"
Cement surround - 6" on sides
Center line to mantel trim - 26"

From reading this thread I've gathered that freestanding stoves are more efficient for a variety of reasons, but I haven't had any luck determining whether or not our fireplace is suited for it.

Should we stick with an insert? I've also had a hard time find any faceplates that will fit our opening. Any guidance on brands, models, etc. would be a life saver! I've included a photo of our fireplace.

 

[pen]

Do you have any stoves in mind yet? Been doing any shopping? Is access to electricity close to the fireplace? Is this in a very open room or a small room?

 

[Darbyhearth]

Do you have any stoves in mind yet? Been doing any shopping? Is access to electricity close to the fireplace? Is this in a very open room or a small room?

Yes! Our chimney guy recommended the Napoleon 1101, but that was after a routine inspection - he didn't measure anything.

I was also looking at the Drolet Escape 1800i, and some of the US stove freestanding stove models when we were looking in that direction. We're looking to spend $1,500 or less on the unit itself, the install is being paid for by the owners of the house (we are land stewards on a battlefield property).

We do have an outlet located on the baseboard trim about a foot to the right of the fireplace. The room is about 16x19 and is our living room, so we spend a ton of time in here.

 

[pen]

Being stoves that are currently for sale, head to their websites and check out the requirements in each manual. They make things pretty clear on what's required and it'll be easier for you to see what's needed (like perhaps a mantle shield, depending on dimensions) or not.

With an outlet nearby, you could go for an insert, but if it were me I don't mind the looks of a freestander in a fireplace any, and you could still run a blower (room permitting) on a freestanding unit in there. A blower is a necessity here.

 

[Darbyhearth]

Being stoves that are currently for sale, head to their websites and check out the requirements in each manual. They make things pretty clear on what's required and it'll be easier for you to see what's needed (like perhaps a mantle shield, depending on dimensions) or not.

With an outlet nearby, you could go for an insert, but if it were me I don't mind the looks of a freestander in a fireplace any, and you could still run a blower (room permitting) on a freestanding unit in there. A blower is a necessity here.

I think I've read about 9,000 manuals in the past week, and I think I'm melting my brain. I guess what I'm looking for is some experienced guidance on what's going to work. The more I download and read manuals, the more convinced I am that nothing is going to work because of clearance to wood trim, faceplate size, etc., and I'm not even certain how much some of those factors even matter.

 

[kennyp2339]

Darbyhearth - welcome to the site, it has so much useful information, +1 on what pen is saying, especially if your on a budget. I own a free standing US stove model 2500 (free standing) it throws heat but it is already cracking due to cheap Chinese metal fatigue < 3 yrs old, so I'm very disappointed. The cracks formed around the door area, so it wasn't like I over fired it (to hot a fire for the box), I would stick with a made a American made stove, if the budget is tight research the Englander brand, lots and lots of happy owners, plus good customer support / service (wish I went this route first). Also it was a great idea calling a chimney sweep to look at the chimney, most older houses that have masonry flue's need to have stainless steel liners installed because mortar over time breaks down and creates cracks in the flu, or even worse the clay tiles develop cracks from severe heat issues (chimney fires)
There is a difference between inserts and freestanding stoves, usually free standing stoves emit more heat through radiating (requires no electric) and inserts need to have a working blower most of the time to throw the heat out, it really at the end of the day depends on how much of your stove will stick out of the fire place, I own a free standing stove and never used my blower, my parents have an insert (sticks out about a 12 -14 inches) they use the blower in the dead of winter, shoulder season they don't need it, another friend of mine has a flush mount insert and needs his blower to bring in heat to the room no matter what season it is.
The other most important thing is dry wood, not even good dry wood, just dry wood especially if your new to this stuff, to cut to the chase - if you get firewood, buy a moisture meter, anything below 18% is pretty good between 18% and 24% you may need a mid winter cleaning and your shorting yourself on potential heating, above 25% moisture - why bother burning at all, chances are you wont be able to maintain a hot fire, you will build creosote in you chimney like crazy (chimney fire material), you will get smoke in the house every time you open the door to the stove, worst of all you will get frustrated and say that wood burning is horrible and your crazy for doing it, its very dangerous ...
You are on the right path and good luck with hunt of a renewable, sustainable heating solution-

 

[Grisu]

We're looking to spend $1,500 or less on the unit itself

That may be your biggest handicap actually. Inserts come with additional surround, air-jacket, blower and therefore usually cost more than that. You would need to go for a budget brand like Century to stay below that amount. A hearth-mounted, rear-vented stove is generally a cast-iron or soapstone model which also will cost more. You are essentially limited to top vented stoves that will fit in your fireplace opening. Fortunately, your lintel height may just give you some options but the depth of your hearth may not be sufficient for most models. The Pacific Energy True North for example fits in but would require you to extend the hearth by a few inches. A rather shallow stove would be good. Take a look at the Drolet Blackcomb and the Timberwolf EPA 2200. Those would fit fireplace and hearth; not sure about side and top clearances though. If in doubt give the manufacturer a call. Not sure if they will be sufficient to heat your home exclusively but they will make dent in your heating bill.

 

[Darbyhearth]

Thanks for the helpful responses, everyone!

I'm really liking the Englander 13-NCi, actually. As far as I can tell, it will fit minus the face plate, which will be just a hair too short. I've read about others foregoing the face plate on this site - my question is how that will effect performance?

My husband would rather be able to see some of the brick in the fireplace anyway, so if that works we'd be happy with it. I just convinced him that we'd need a blower. If it were up to him, we'd have a beautiful antique stove sticking out of that thing, but I don't think that's possible.

I'm not certain if we'd ever be able to heat all the nooks and crannies of this house because of the strange modern additions that were put on. We'd be happy with heating the main areas while being less reliant on our propane furnace.

 

[Darbyhearth]

That may be your biggest handicap actually. Inserts come with additional surround, air-jacket, blower and therefore usually cost more than that. You would need to go for a budget brand like Century to stay below that amount. A hearth-mounted, rear-vented stove is generally a cast-iron or soapstone model which also will cost more. You are essentially limited to top vented stoves that will fit in your fireplace opening. Fortunately, your lintel height may just give you some options but the depth of your hearth may not be sufficient for most
models. The Pacific Energy True North for example fits in but would require you to extend the hearth by a few inches. A rather shallow stove would be good. Take a look at the Drolet Blackcomb and the Timberwolf EPA 2200. Those would fit fireplace and hearth; not sure about side and top clearances though. If in doubt give the manufacturer a call. Not sure if they will be sufficient to heat your home exclusively but they will make dent in your heating bill.

I figured as much! We are working on two museum employee budgets, so we're used to trying to find the most bang for our buck. The good news is that we have access to about 50 acres of wood on thus property, so eventually this purchase will pay for itself.

Thank you for the stove suggestions - I'll definitely check those out today!

 

[Grisu]

I'm really liking the Englander 13-NCi, actually. As far as I can tell, it will fit minus the face plate, which will be just a hair too short. I've read about others foregoing the face plate on this site - my question is how that will effect performance?

Having no face plate will have less heat trapped in the fireplace and may actually increase the performance slightly. However, inserts are usually not that nice to look at due to the additional air jacket. If you don't mind a small gap that could still work for you. The 13NCi has a 1.8 cu ft firebox so don't expect to get full overnight burns. In any case, install a block-off plate that will increase the performance of any stove or insert significantly. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

Make sure you have dry wood no matter what stove/insert you get!

 

[Woody Stover]

Darbyhearth said: ↑
We're looking to spend $1,500 or less on the unit itself

That may be your biggest handicap

Yeah, if that includes the stainless liner, you are looking at the value stoves for sure. A rear-vented stove would allow you to move it out onto the hearth a bit, but that feature is hard to find in a plate-steel stove. Most are top-vent.

 

[slayer7]

I have the Englander 50-SNC13I which is the same insert as the 13-NCi with the Summer's Heat branding. We couldn't use the surround because the unit needed to sit further back into the fireplace opening due to clearance issues with the lintel and liner connection. The unit is fairly shallow and the liner opening is situated right in the middle so it couldn't sit forward on the hearth without an offset box or something like that. But it works just fine as a standalone unit without the surround as long as the fan is running. We also have an insulated liner and block-off plate at the bottom so heat doesn't escape up the chimney. Even though the firebox is on the small side, I get pretty close to overnight burns when it is stuffed with oak or similar good wood. Occasionally, I find myself wishing it was a little larger and burned a little longer but that is mostly when the temperature really drops into the teens or single digits. Otherwise, it keeps the house toasty warm most of the winter with 3 loads a day. It's pretty good quality for an economy-priced unit.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for posting slayer. The 13NCi is what I had in mind for this install. Do you have a mantel shield in place?

 

[Darbyhearth]

We don't have a mantel shield, but judging from the clearances I'm not certain we need one. Let me know if you think I'm wrong on that, please! Do you think a block off plate is something the chimney people would automatically put in or be able to do?

 

[begreen]

Many installers will avoid putting in a block-off plate. It's more work and will raise the cost of the installation. A typical short cut is to stuff insulation up around the liner in the damper area. Let them know that you want a proper, insulated, damper-sealing block off plate installed.

Here are the 13NCi's clearance requirements, click to enlarge.

 

[slayer7]

We don't have a mantle shield or have much to worry about in the way of clearances except for the front because the whole wall that the fireplace is on is constructed of white marble stones. These is no mantle per se, but several shelves that stick out from the stone wall but they are stone too. I will try to get some pics up here for reference. I would definitely insist on the block-off plate. I had 5 installers come for quotes (including a couple of total clowns) and only one guy wanted to insulate the liner and put in the block-off plate, actually he insisted on it. Of course, he was like $1000 more expensive but after reading up on here, I wanted this done right. Don't let them tell you that the top plate seals off the chimney and is good enough, that's nonsense. A ton of heat that would be warming your house will go up and warm the chimney instead.

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums, Darby !! Always nice to see another Sistah here

A floor plan / house lay out would immensely help, here. My 13 is a free stander. Love it to death, but it's a max of 6 hour burn time / 7 -8 hours of heat, depending on outside temps. In your milder climate, it might work.

 

[Grisu]

We don't have a mantle shield or have much to worry about in the way of clearances except for the front because the whole wall that the fireplace is on is constructed of white marble stones. These is no mantle per se, but several shelves that stick out from the stone wall but they are stone too. I will try to get some pics up here for reference. I would definitely insist on the block-off plate. I had 5 installers come for quotes (including a couple of total clowns) and only one guy wanted to insulate the liner and put in the block-off plate, actually he insisted on it. Of course, he was like $1000 more expensive but after reading up on here, I wanted this done right. Don't let them tell you that the top plate seals off the chimney and is good enough, that's nonsense. A ton of heat that would be warming your house will go up and warm the chimney instead.

One out of five is not that bad. I was sure it would be more like 1 in 100 who would offer by themselves to add a block-off plate.

Do you think a block off plate is something the chimney people would automatically put in or be able to do?

Insist on it. If necessary prepare it before the stove/insert is being installed using the instructions I linked to. Quite a few installers also like to stuff fiberglass in the damper opening. Either ask them for Roxul or go to Lowes and buy some yourself. Put it loosely in the damper area for added insulation before installing the block-off plate. If you need an independent installer search here: (broken link removed to http://www.ncsg.org/search) or http://www.csia.org/search

 

[slayer7]

Here are some pics of how my insert looks...forgive the clutter, I'm in the process of painting the room.

 

[Ashful]

Springfield 1892 trapdoor .45-70 cal?

 

[Darbyhearth]

Springfield 1892 trapdoor .45-70 cal?

Model 1842 .69 cal

Here are some pics of how my insert looks...forgive the clutter, I'm in the process of painting the room.

That actually looks fine to me! Thanks for posting!

One out of five is not that bad. I was sure it would be more like 1 in 100 who would offer by themselves to add a block-off plate.


Insist on it. If necessary prepare it before the stove/insert is being installed using the instructions I linked to. Quite a few installers also like to stuff fiberglass in the damper opening. Either ask them for Roxul or go to Lowes and buy some yourself. Put it loosely in the damper area for added insulation before installing the block-off plate. If you need an independent installer search here: (broken link removed to http://www.ncsg.org/search) or http://www.csia.org/search

Noted! Thank you so much! I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Englander. Fingers crossed everything works out as expected!

 

[Ashful]

Model 1842 .69 cal
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Englander. Fingers crossed everything works out as expected!

Based on everything I have read here, from countless Englander owners, I anticipate you will be very satisfied.

Model 1842... perhaps manufactured the year your house was built? Nice touch!

 

[isipwater]

Hi there! I've been anonymously reading for a few weeks now in an effort to fully research buying the proper stove or insert for our home.

We have an old (1847) home and are looking at taking some heat (pun intended!) off of our yearly propane costs by installing a freestanding or insert stove. The house is 1,750 square feet located in central Virginia. It's also very poorly insulated in the original rooms. I've already spoken with a local chimney company who has explained the need to have a 6" liner installed.

Our fireplace measures as follows:

Opening - 39.5"w 34.5"h 17"d
Hearth extension - 24.5"
Cement surround - 6" on sides
Center line to mantel trim - 26"

From reading this thread I've gathered that freestanding stoves are more efficient for a variety of reasons, but I haven't had any luck determining whether or not our fireplace is suited for it.

Should we stick with an insert? I've also had a hard time find any faceplates that will fit our opening. Any guidance on brands, models, etc. would be a life saver! I've included a photo of our fireplace.

Hi and welcome to the forum. I am sure you will get the guidance you are looking for here. Any thoughts about saving money by doing energy audit, increasing insulation, and sealing house?