New Wood Insert Advice

[michael_tn]

Good day all,

we had a fire under out hearth a few weeks ago (in the middle of the infamous east tennessee ice storm) and we're in the process of repairing the hearth and installing a wood burning insert. our chimney folks have asked that we use an insert with a 8" or 10" flue. we have about 33" feet of draft on our chimney. i seem to be having some problems finding such inserts. we'd like something a bit more modern, we've been gradually moving our home from a traditional look to a more modern or contemporary look. i like the looks of this one: (broken link removed to http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/focus-320-fireplace) and it has a 7" flue which may satisfy them. i also like the this fireplace but cannot seem to find the flue diameter: http://regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/CI2600.aspx

any other fireplaces we should be considering? thanks!

--- michael

 

[bholler]

What do you mean a fire under your hearth out of curiosity? Why do they want you to get an insert with an 8 or 10" flue i dont know of any 10" inserts and there are very few 8" ones. The regency is made for 6" like almost all inserts available. The icc is a zero clearance unit that can be installed as an insert. What type of fireplace do you have?

 

[michael_tn]

It was a traditional brick and mortar fireplace. after running the fire place for a few days we had the floor joists under the hearth caught fire. in the process of putting out the fire the firemen 'deconstructed' our hearth. we were thinking of going with an insert to be able to generate some heat for our house.

 

[bholler]

It was a traditional brick and mortar fireplace. after running the fire place for a few days we had the floor joists under the hearth caught fire. in the process of putting out the fire the firemen 'deconstructed' our hearth. we were thinking of going with an insert to be able to generate some heat for our house.

That is a good plan After the hearth is rebuilt properly. I really dont see why you would not just go with an insert with a 6" vent like most on the market now.

 

[Fastdonzi]

33' of 6" may be slow. My chimney sweep recommended I get 8" for my 25' stack.. I mentioned 6" and he said don't blame him if it smokes out the house

 

[Grisu]

Do you have any idea why they recommended an 8" or 10" flue insert? What kind of chimney do you have and what are its inner dimensions?

When you can give us the dimensions of your fireplace (this may help: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.com/how-to-measure/)) and tell us more about your heating needs (area to be heated, insulation levels, winter temps, location of the fireplace, rough floorplan etc.) we can give you recommendations about suitable inserts. Please be aware that any EPA-approved insert requires dry wood with a moisture content of less than 20%. That usually requires to stack the split wood in a sunny and windy location for 1 to 3 years depending on the species. I would get that going ASAP, probably even before getting the insert.

Modern looking inserts: Pacific Energy Neo 2.5, Osburn Matrix, Large Flush Hybrid Insert from Travis industries (Lopi, Avalon, FireplaceXtraordinaire)

The Regency insert is extensively discussed here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/

 

[BrotherBart]

That is a good plan After the hearth is rebuilt properly. I really dont see why you would not just go with an insert with a 6" vent like most on the market now.

Maybe because RSF says "This fireplace is certified for use with 7" ICC Model EXCEL chimney only.".

 

[bholler]

Maybe because RSF says "This fireplace is certified for use with 7" ICC Model EXCEL chimney only.".

Yes i see that but that doesn't explain why their "Chimney guys" Said go with an 8" or 10" insert

 

[begreen]

Seems we have a terminology issue. We are talking about a zero-clearance fireplace here, not an insert. The chimney size is relevant to the fireplace. Some modern 3 cu ft EPA fireplaces do fine with a 6" class A chimney, for example:
http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/fireplaces/fp30/

 

[bholler]

33' of 6" may be slow. My chimney sweep recommended I get 8" for my 25' stack.. I mentioned 6" and he said don't blame him if it smokes out the house

That is because the 91 has an 8" outlet. Most inserts do not you want to match the outlet size to the size of the liner

 

[bholler]

Seems we have a terminology issue. We are talking about a zero-clearance fireplace here, not an insert. The chimney size is relevant to the fireplace. Some modern 3 cu ft EPA fireplaces do fine with a 6" class A chimney, for example:

I dont know they said it was a traditional masonry fireplace and that the hearth was being rebuilt

 

[Grisu]

Seems we have a terminology issue.

After reading the OPs post again, I am wondering what he actually has or how the fireplace will be reconstructed:

It was a traditional brick and mortar fireplace...in the process of putting out the fire the firemen 'deconstructed' our hearth.

Some pics would certainly be helpful.

 

[aansorge]

33' of 6" may be slow. My chimney sweep recommended I get 8" for my 25' stack.. I mentioned 6" and he said don't blame him if it smokes out the house

I thought the taller the stack the better the draw?!?

 

[begreen]

Yes, for a fireplace with a 6" flue that should draw strongly, but if this is in a basement with negative pressure, then not so much.

 

[michael_tn]

sorry for all the confusion. i don't think we'll end up with a zero-clearance fireplace. our fireplace is a very traditional brick and mortar fireplace and chimney. the fireplace box dimensions are 40"Wx28"Hx18D. its on the ground floor, and the chimney top is at about 33' above the hearth. ita a two story house, with very steep pitched roofs, adding to the chimney height. our chimney guys, who will be rebuilding the hearth, wanted an 8" flue on the insert. having seen that there are few of those, i plan to have another discussion with them about appropriate flue dimensions. i think they have in their mind we're wanting a stove, of which there seem to be a lot of larger flue diameter ports. i'll try and get some images together (on top of ice storm, fire, repairs i'm two weeks into a knee replacement as well, adding to the enjoyment of the experience

--- michael

 

[michael_tn]

here are a couple of images:

 

[michael_tn]

thanks for the link to the regency discussion.

the chimney guys seemed very concerned that a 6" flue would not have enough draw for our 33" chimney. i'm not a fireplace guy so i'm just going by their concerns.

the fireplace is large (by my standards) 40"Wx28"Hx18"D.

---- michael

Do you have any idea why they recommended an 8" or 10" flue insert? What kind of chimney do you have and what are its inner dimensions?

When you can give us the dimensions of your fireplace (this may help: (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.com/how-to-measure/)) and tell us more about your heating needs (area to be heated, insulation levels, winter temps, location of the fireplace, rough floorplan etc.) we can give you recommendations about suitable inserts. Please be aware that any EPA-approved insert requires dry wood with a moisture content of less than 20%. That usually requires to stack the split wood in a sunny and windy location for 1 to 3 years depending on the species. I would get that going ASAP, probably even before getting the insert.

Modern looking inserts: Pacific Energy Neo 2.5, Osburn Matrix, Large Flush Hybrid Insert from Travis industries (Lopi, Avalon, FireplaceXtraordinaire)

The Regency insert is extensively discussed here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-ci2600-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/

t

 

[Grisu]

the chimney guys seemed very concerned that a 6" flue would not have enough draw for our 33" chimney. i'm not a fireplace guy so i'm just going by their concerns.

Weird. A tall, insulated liner has usually the potential to give you too much draft, not the opposite. FWIW, I would determine from your heating needs which size insert you will need. Then check what fits in your fireplace and go from there. Height and width of your fireplace are ok, depth can be challenging, especially if you want a flush mount. Is that piece of plywood going to stay there? If you finish that up on the floor level with tile or similar you could potentially put a freestanding stove in there. From where did you measure the height?

 

[michael_tn]

the plan is to rebuild the fireplace box as it was. i think we will modernize the outward look a bit (our house has been moving from a traditional look to a more contemporary look,

After reading the OPs post again, I am wondering what he actually has or how the fireplace will be reconstructed:


Some pics would certainly be helpful.

 

[michael_tn]

they measured from the bottom of the hearth to the top of the chimney outlet.

--- michael

Weird. A tall, insulated liner has usually the potential to give you too much draft, not the opposite. FWIW, I would determine from your heating needs which size insert you will need. Then check what fits in your fireplace and go from there. Height and width of your fireplace are ok, depth can be challenging, especially if you want a flush mount. Is that piece of plywood going to stay there? If you finish that up on the floor level with tile or similar you could potentially put a freestanding stove in there. From where did you measure the height?

 

[Grisu]

the plan is to rebuild the fireplace box as it was. i think we will modernize the outward look a bit (our house has been moving from a traditional look to a more contemporary look,

It's your home but maybe you should decide first what you want to put in there before doing the rebuilding. Otherwise, you may realize you have no good options you like.

 

[Grisu]

they measured from the bottom of the hearth to the top of the chimney outlet.

--- michael

Sorry I meant the fireplace opening, not the chimney. Was the height measured from the brick in the back (which I assume was the height before the fire) or the plywood in the front?

 

[michael_tn]

indeed, this is quite true. we have not committed to any construction yet. we are not looking to heat our house from the insert, only wanting to be able to recover some of the heat. i love having a fire, but the house fire has put a bit of caution into me and i feel that a new insert and liner will help alleviate my safety concerns.

 

[michael_tn]

yes, the height was measured from top of where the hearth was the chimney guy says he can install something with a 24" height and have room to make all the connections.

--- michael

Sorry I meant the fireplace opening, not the chimney. Was the height measured from the brick in the back (which I assume was the height before the fire) or the plywood in the front?

 

[CountryBoy19]

It's your home but maybe you should decide first what you want to put in there before doing the rebuilding. Otherwise, you may realize you have no good options you like.

This was my thought as well. Leave your options as open as possible. Choose the insert you like best that will fit in the current, expanded opening, and then rebuild the hearth to comply with the UL listing and physical constraints of that insert. It baffles my mind why anybody would build the hearth up and then choose an insert. By choosing the insert then building the hearth to match you should end up with a much more refined look, better fit, more options, less hassle etc.