New Wood Stove/ Too much draft?

[manooti]

I really dont know where to begin. Ill post set up and go from there I guess..

Through wall kit, 18' class A
2.5'-3' above ridge
3' horizontal run from flue to exterior
another 2.5' vertical flue off stove
one 90 elbow inside
one 90 elbow outside for chimney
Stove is US Stove 2000

I have been using an old 1982 coal/wood stove. had no baffle and made one with 1/4 inch steel. the draft was crazy strong and that stove had 3 elbows because it was a rear vent. That stove would destroy wood in 2 hours or less. This new stove is a top vent.

Picked up new stove with tax refund. Installed and it cranked it up.

The air control no matter what setting I set it at seems like it is blowing the flames out. Too much air being thrown in? I cant seem to get that lazy fire effect. The air coming in is blowing either much or not enough at times. I open the door a tiny crack and the fire goes nuts to a point where it might over fire. Once I did get the flue temp over 500 degrees but nothing glowed red, everything was fine and just lowered the intake and down went the temps. But then the flames started dying out. it was a balancing act trying to keep it from overfiring and maintaining flame for the efficiency.

Then, when I open the door to adjust the logs I do get some smoke spillage. Doesnt seem bad. I open the air completely, crack the door for a few seconds. You can see the smoke rolling off the top and bouncing off the glass going into the fire. So, I open the door and the smoke spills into the room. Its not a lot but it seems as if the air intake is not letting the smoke go up the front and instead is pushing it back down and out into room instead of into fire because the door is open.

Am I supposed to close the air when I open the door? Manual says otherwise. Not sure.

I also do not get the secondaries running. I only got it running one time when the flue temps were rising over 500. Sounds like I am not getting the stove hot enough maybe? Its a tough call because there is no overfiring temperature to look for in the manual. I called US Stove and the rep wasnt sure what temp to avoid. I pretty much try to keep it under 600... if I can.

When the stove doesnt get hot enough the only way for me to get the secondaries running is to open the door for a minute... close the door and air and then the secondaries go off from the tubes but it only lasts a short while. Maybe 2 minutes.

Im just afraid to get this thing too hot. It sounds like Im not running it right looking at this now lol

I think I might be stacking the wood wrong inside the box also. It really sucks to be new

 

[begreen]

Hang in there, it'll get get better over time. It's getting tougher to burn well now in spring as the draft is dependent on the outside temps. When it's mild the draft weakens. Your stove requires stronger draft than the old one because the air supply is routed through channels to warm it up first and to direct it as an airwash over the glass.

The very big difference from the old stove to the new one is modern stoves must have fully seasoned, dry wood to burn well. Based on the description you may be trying to burn partially seasoned wood. As a test, get some construction cutoff 2x4s and add them to your fire. They will burn hotter and should help your cord wood splits burn hotter.

Yes, open the air supply first, then slowly open the door. In mid-winter, when temps outside are 30 or below smoke spillage should be less of an issue.

 

[manooti]

I did try a couple of loads of kiln dried wood. Max and low setting air it looked like the flames are being pushed too much. But if I stack the wood inside differently it makes a huge difference on how it works. Sometimes when I have the control wide open and then shut it quick I get those lazy dancing flames but not for long.

Last night I had an issue trying to get the stove above 400 degrees and temps were between 25-35 outside. I had to load the thing like crazy but even then I dont think Im loading it right because of how the air gets thrown in there. Used to the coal stove with bottom fed air. Hard to explain but its like at any setting it looks like someone is blowing on a fire and you get that effect. Like a fan pushing the flames. Hoping that makes some sense.

Only creosote build up is on the left corner of the glass and everything else is clean so I guess Im not running it too far off. No cleaning in 2-3 weeks of use.

 

[begreen]

Try closing it part way instead of all the way. Close it down just until the flames get lazy, then wait until the flames regain strength and then close it down again until the flames get lazy. The fire will burn hotter with the wood oriented parallel to the stove sides (N/S). That allows the air from the air wash to flush between the wood toward the back of the stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

Just a couple things - first off BG is the man and he has tons of experience with stoves, his advice is solid.
You mention a few temps so I'm assuming that you have a stove top thermometer or a chimney pipe thermometer. Those stoves are fairly responsive and they like to cruise at temps around 650 on the stove top.
I don't think your getting the stove up to is cruise temp since you mention that you don't get secondary lite off. Try getting that stove hotter, it wont take off like a rocket ship or melt into a puddle of molten metal on the floor, Open her up and let her breath with a load stacked up to the top of the fire bricks, make sure the baffle board is slid all the way to the back of the stove, leave the air full throttle for at least 20 min (or more) then turn it down in 1/4 increments. Each time you close the air down it will take about 10 min for the fire to settle to that new level of air, you have to start hot then work your way down.
Since this is a new stove, I would safely assume that the stove hasn't hit a hot temp yet, you may get that new stove / paint curing smell, don't be worried. If you do get an over fire (Temps greater than 850deg) just open the door all the way, the cooler room air will cool down the chimney pipe.

 

[manooti]

Thank you both for the good info. I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong and didn't know what to look for.

I bought a thermometer but don't know if it's a stove top or a flue thermometer. Do they both work the same? Surface thermometer.

What's the best way to load the stove?

Last night I loaded 2 in the back tight. One facing up and one facing down. Coals from kindling to front and a bigger kindling piece as igniter.

This stove is only east west. Can't do north south unless I cut them. Should I be?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have one of these very same model stove. Country hearth 2000. I usually keep the stovetop under 650 and concerning the flue pipe 500 is not too hot for the flue pipe near the stove. I dont have any problems with mine, it burns terrific, but i always burn very dry wood. Once the stove is hot its easy to regulate. Only downside to this stove is its a bit small and hard to get a lot of wood into it. If you cant get above 400 id blame the wood,i always get my 2000 up to 550 -600 . And NO dont close the air before you open the door or you will certainly get smoke spillage

 

[manooti]

I see. How hot can the walls get with those high temps? I have durock nextgen and still kept the recommended clearances for the corner set up. 12 inches off each corner. Im at 13-14 inches with the wall shield. Next is to tile it. Floor is a little low on R Value. 1.17 vs 1.2 requirement but the 1.17 is without tile. It has 12x12 tiles and I think that adds the last .02 to make it 1.19. I dont think itll be that big of a deal. NextGen 3 layers 1/2 inch, a bit of sand mix, thinset and tile.

The nextgen shield gets hot and that added to my doubt. I can keep my hands on it so I dont think itll explode or anything. It definitely added to my doubt of the stove temps and all these questions came up on how hot is too hot. Stove top vs flue vs wall.

I always thought the secondaries would stay lit when air lowered. Didnt think it was so much of a combination. Ill try to upload a video to show you guys. I only put 2 in at a time. Maybe 3 if im excited lol.

Temps tonight mid 20s. Wish me luck

 

[begreen]

It sounds like you are doing ok for protection, especially if the wall shield has a 1" air space behind it and is open top and bottom. Could be you just need to load more wood. A normal partial load in our stove is 4-6 splits and 9-10 splits for a full load. Try 4 or 5 splits and see how the stove does.

 

[kennyp2339]

When getting things started off do 2 bottom pieces on against the back wall one against the front wall, then 2 more pieces going kind of diagonal, bridging the 2 bottom peices

 

[begreen]

Just a couple things - first off BG is the man and he has tons of experience with stoves, his advice is solid.

Thanks, there are lots of folks here with equal of more experience. I'm just older and type faster.

 

[manooti]

It sounds like you are doing ok for protection, especially if the wall shield has a 1" air space behind it and is open top and bottom. Could be you just need to load more wood. A normal partial load in our stove is 4-6 splits and 9-10 splits for a full load. Try 4 or 5 splits and see how the stove does.

Woah. I don't know how to fit that many splits. Do you have the country hearth 2000?

The max I can fit is 2-4 and if I want more I have to split them down.

I just went to my pile and used chainsaw to put some NS and guess what. They're soaked. I didn't know until I did this and saw some moisture. It was very little but I guess "garbage in garbage out".

I bought it off a neighbor that helped me install the stove from scratch.

I'd feel bad to cut the kiln dried wood in half to use NS though. Sounds like I should or do as the other member just mentioned. 2 on bottom and then diagonal. On phone and won't let me domultiple quotes.

Got the flue up to 450 with max air flow then it all went to embers with no flame. Turned down the air and have some lazy flames but it's all embers now. Will reload when temp drops.

On reload do you bring embers to front or chuck splits on the embers? I've seen both done and not sure which method is best. Burn time vs efficiency vs overfire.

 

[manooti]

I just finished opening up all the doors and windows lol. Got to 88 degrees in the house. My flue showed 350 degrees and fluctuating. My stove top shows 550 now. Got it to hold steady. Barely a flame going. Way too hot. Put in 4 pieces.


All the reviews I read on this before I picked it up said it didn't do 2k sqft.
Now I'm on my porch with a soaked shirt at 20 degrees lol

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Sounds like its workin fine!

 

[manooti]

Sounds like its workin fine!

LOL

How do you still get the secondary burn while lowering damper to lower heat output? Or just keep it simple and open windows? lol
Also had some smoke come out the chimney when she was at 550 degrees. Damper was half way with the baby flame in pic.
And secondary tubes were glowing red but no flames out of the tubes. Normal?
I know.. Im not too bright :D

 

[begreen]

Houston, we have ignition. You're getting there. Good that you cut down the wood and found it damp. That is part of what is making your start erratic. When you have fully dry wood it will burn hotter and more predictably. You control the heat by the amount of wood in the stove. It may take burning half loads of thinner (maybe 3-4") splits in milder weather then let the fire go out.

For easier starts with E/W loads, first put two shorter ~2" diameter by 10" or 12" long splits N/S about 3-4" apart with some newspaper balled between them or a chunk of SuperCedar. (A 2x4 cutoff split in half works perfect.) Then I would place a couple 4" splits E/W on top of them with a gap between them to allow the flame some passage. Add third piece on top at a diagonal, trying to keep a flame gap between. Ignite and the boost air will flow under the stack and light it off quickly.

 

[manooti]

Houston, we have ignition. You're getting there. Good that you cut down the wood and found it damp. That is part of what is making your start erratic. When you have fully dry wood it will burn hotter and more predictably. You control the heat by the amount of wood in the stove. It may take burning half loads of thinner (maybe 3-4") splits in milder weather then let the fire go out.

For easier starts with E/W loads, first put two shorter ~2" diameter by 10" or 12" long splits N/S about 3-4" apart with some newspaper balled between them or a chunk of SuperCedar. (A 2x4 cutoff split in half works perfect.) Then I would place a couple 4" splits E/W on top of them with a gap between them to allow the flame some passage. Add third piece on top at a diagonal, trying to keep a flame gap between. Ignite and the boost air will flow under the stack and light it off quickly.

Ill try that method.

What about the threshold between smoldering and flames when the load becomes embers? When its embers I see smoke out of chimney. Embers with full damper I still see smoke. Afraid of creosote.

I came from a coal/wood stove that formed creosote in my chimney in a month. Almost had a chimney fire but stopped it in time when I heard the crackling in the pipes. Sounded like sand moving around.

Just now the load became embers and had nice blue flames about an inch or two tall all across the bed. I went outside with my flashlight and it was smoking. 20 degrees outside, maybe less now. Played with the draft control and no change whatsoever. I mean its not as much as it was with the 30 year old stove but still scared to death of it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

You dont necessarily have to see flames from your burn tubes ,to be sure they are working. Most important factors to good secondary combustion is a hot stove and dry wood. If they are glowing red, you are getting all the secondary combustion possible. Also if you have too much air you will get some smoke from time to time if your trying to push too much air thru the stove. Adjust the control according to room temp,if its already warm enough in the house, back it down. You will consume less wood.opening windows is a waste of heat and wood. CHeers!

 

[begreen]

What about the threshold between smoldering and flames when the load becomes embers? When its embers I see smoke out of chimney. Embers with full damper I still see smoke. Afraid of creosote.
When the wood has out-gassed completely and is only charcoal you can close down the air more.
Just now the load became embers and had nice blue flames about an inch or two tall all across the bed. I went outside with my flashlight and it was smoking. 20 degrees outside, maybe less now. Played with the draft control and no change whatsoever. I mean its not as much as it was with the 30 year old stove but still scared to death of it.
Are you sure that wasn't water vapor? Smoke will linger and is greyish. Water vapor is white and dissipates in a minute or less. Adding more air at the coaling stage will just accelerate the burning down of the coals. There should be little or no flame at that point and no risk of overfiring the stove.

 

[Smoked]

I may have gotten AADD and skimmed past something but also, kiln dried is sometimes only heated enough to kill bugs so you can transport it. It can sometimes still be pretty wet. Get your self a cheap moisture meter too. Check fresh splits across the grain. You definitely want lest than 20%

 

[manooti]

Thanks for that. I just had some more problems. Got some dry wood. Neighbor used his moisture meter for me and gave me some wood. I dont know what it was but he said it was the driest he found for me.

I lit the stove up and everything was good. Got to 450 degrees. No secondary ignition (tubes glow, no flames) but also 0 smoke outside. Started lowering the draft control in increments. 1st step, ok. 2nd step fire got lower, 3rd step, fire gone and smoke outside. The temp was around 300. Fully opened the air control and flames got more than they were initially and temp got even higher. Buried needle, over 500 but this time some of the secondaries lit. Lowered control again but this time only half way and secondaries went out but had flames. Outside temp 19 degrees. Inside, 90 degrees (again) lol. Window closest to stove was open whole time.

I dont know what the difference is in smoke vs vapor. I thought moisture was what caused the crap to stick to the lining and form creosote.

So problem is, cant go below half on control and only some secondaries light off. They just glow from the heat. I opened the door to stoke the fire and it was nasty. Singed the hair on my arms before I even grabbed the poker. Pretty much.. cant run this stove without doors and windows open. Is that good or bad? Dont get me wrong, still dont regret buying it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If your getting no smoke out the chimney your burning smoke, especially in the first few hours of a reload or startup,remember you cant always see secondary flame. After the stovetop hits 500-550 adjust the air according to how much heat you want and dont worry if you can see secondary flame,its there! I have the same stove and the only time i see flue smoke is when i give it too much air.

 

[manooti]

If your getting no smoke out the chimney your burning smoke, especially in the first few hours of a reload or startup,remember you cant always see secondary flame. After the stovetop hits 500-550 adjust the air according to how much heat you want and dont worry if you can see secondary flame,its there! I have the same stove and the only time i see flue smoke is when i give it too much air.

Thats weird. I dont see any smoke with open air. Had a little creosote on the corner of the glass, let it burn and its clean now. Havent cleaned it since I installed it. If the glass is clean the chimney should be clean too?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

When i say your burning smoke ,i mean your secondaries are working ,even if you cant see them. If i try to push too much air thru the stove i get some smoke that get past the reburn pipes.

 

[manooti]

When i say your burning smoke ,i mean your secondaries are working ,even if you cant see them. If i try to push too much air thru the stove i get some smoke that get past the reburn pipes.

I gotcha. Mines the opposite. If I run it full open there's no smoke outside.

Just out of curiosity how is your stove set up?

Mine is at spec for corner set up but I added an inch and durock nextgen for heat shield. Doubled it up, 6' tall x 5. And do your walls get hot? I have to tile mine and that's gonna be a pain in the ass