Newb could use a little understanding... well o.k. alot!!

[ThinAir]

I posted this opening paragraph under "anyone out there running a Jotul F55", a quick thank you out to Raybonz for the only reply. I realize now that a new thread is in order....

Hello folks, I'll begin with this being my first post to this wonderful site, I've gained a tremendous insight into the world of wood stoves, burning technique, and moreover a respect for all the fine contributors to this site. For openers, my wife and I live in Bozeman, MT and are about to undertake a major remodel/addition to a very tiny 1920's bungalow in town. The finished first floor sq. ft. will be approx. 1,250, and will be very open with an open stairwell going up. The upper sq. footage will be around 800, which will house bedrooms and bathrooms. The basement is 28x28, (the current size of the home) and will remain that size (no basement addition, just crawl under new addition. Because I've never owned a stove before, I'll state that I know I don't know how exactly I'll utilize it, but our hopes would be that if desired we could heat the house with it. On the other hand I want comfortable heat that we can enjoy sitting near for the purpose of soaking in the heat for our old bones and being able to enjoy the flame. Because we are adding on a 16x36 rectangle on to our 28x28 home, the stove will be sitting at the transition point and centered between new and old, probably on the backside of a stairwell. The addition will house the new living and dining space, and adjacent to that in the old part of the house will be the kitchen.

The house is getting a whole new lid, all new windows, and insulation (all plaster is coming off the existing interior walls for electrical in insulation purposes. Major renovation....

Before I go into the questions about stoves, we were considering putting in a new Mod/Con gas boiler and in floor radiant heat vs. GFA for both comfort and resale value. I'm hoping that being retired and having some plumbing skills I could install the boiler/system with minimal outside help rendering the heat plant not tremendously more expensive than GFA/burnt air. That said, I'd be interested in opinions about what would make for a good heating system knowing I'm starting from scratch and would like to heavily supplement with wood if not 24/7 burning.

That all said, we would like to move forward on a stove as a important component for heat.

I've read the complete thread regarding the new BK Ashford CAT stove and enjoyed "most" of the info there. Just wondering if there is a "tweener" stove that would provide us with an enjoyable flame but also 10 hour burn times with local available wood here in Bozeman MT.

I guess I'm looking for advice on where stove owners normally migrate to, what path if any is followed with respect to stove ownership and use. So many times I've purchased what I thought would be the right tool, only to find out soon after that I really needed a different one for the job.

The idea of sitting in our living room, listening to music, reading, or watching a movie and peering occasionally over at a soft dancing flame seems deliciously relaxing. So if in fact a CAT stove/Ashford can have that same flame/show as say a PE Alderlea/Jotul F55 or perhaps other by simply opening it up, albeit less efficient, I'd be interested in that stove. I get the feeling that whether you run a BK Ashford more open or run the aforementioned stoves the wood use would be similar. I realize the CAT when utilized "properly" allows more flexibility for burning at lower temp during the shoulder seasons and that along with the long burn times "when wanted" is a win win. But a huge loser IMO is the lack of the fireside "experience" so to speak IF the stove can't be run to have an appealing flame.

So my home size and desired (at least what I think is desired) use, are there other stoves to consider vs. the cast wrapped steel stoves such as the PE T5/6, Jotul F55, for stove appearance and flame performance?

What would have been nice to see addressed in that Ashford review was additional pictures of the most beautiful flame you could get out of the Ashford vs. the Lopi Cape Cod. If there were even close...the Ashford seems to make sense.

If the Ashford's flame is a smoldering glow as I saw in the pic's, no sense in my mind placing the stove for entertainment value, just put the work horse anywhere logical, feed it wood and enjoy the heat and burn times.

 

[logger]

You're going to get flame shows w pretty much any of the new stoves you've mentioned, some just better than others. Nothing compares to the burn times and length of heat from a BK but they just aren't too visually appealing and glass gets dirty easily (ashfords are at least a little better looking). Depends on what you're willing to give up in order to gain. The reason many people haven't gotten back to you on the F55 is because it's a newer stove and hasn't been out long, but jotul is a fine company and we love our Oslo. PE is another fine company with great reviews. The cat vs non cat issue is one you'll have to decide on your own. I just didn't feel like constantly cleaning or dishing out the loot for a new cat a few years down the line. That being said, it seems like you'd like the ambiance of a non cat, the burn times of a cat, and a softer, convectional heat of a soapstone.. I'd definitely take a look at the Woodstock Progress Hybrid that uses both burn tubes and a cat, along with the smooth heat of soapstone. Also check out Hearthstones line of non cat soaps just to get a better idea if soaps are for you. I'd go big for your house so the PE T-6, jotul F55 or F600, BK Ashford, or maybe even a quad isle royale are all great choices. I'd look at those soaps too just to decide if you can rule them out or put them in the equation. All have great reputations, best of luck.

 

[oconnor]

Good luck with the renovation. I don't have any input on the stove side, but would steer you into thinking about how you can optimize your chimney install as you proceed. If you can avoid an exposed steel chimney you will have a more predictable performer regardless of the stove you choose. If you are lining an existing masonry chimney, you need to consider an insulated liner, especially given the age of the home and the hidden clearance issues that can lurk behind old plaster walls. A properly insulated liner will give you reduced clearances to combustibles for the masonry chimney (zero clearance actually)

Also, get your firewood starting now. It is no fun trying to enjoy a new stove only to discover that the fuel you have isn't optimally dry. Really hard to learn when you are working around other issues.

And finally, get the wood now. I said that already, but it's worth repeating.

 

[ThinAir]

Good luck with the renovation. I don't have any input on the stove side, but would steer you into thinking about how you can optimize your chimney install as you proceed. If you can avoid an exposed steel chimney you will have a more predictable performer regardless of the stove you choose. If you are lining an existing masonry chimney, you need to consider an insulated liner, especially given the age of the home and the hidden clearance issues that can lurk behind old plaster walls. A properly insulated liner will give you reduced clearances to combustibles for the masonry chimney (zero clearance actually)

Also, get your firewood starting now. It is no fun trying to enjoy a new stove only to discover that the fuel you have isn't optimally dry. Really hard to learn when you are working around other issues.

And finally, get the wood now. I said that already, but it's worth repeating.

Bret, thank you for that bit. I know the dealer recommended double wall from the stove on up, but once outside the roof I will make sure to have a decorative chase built that I assume would also shield the exposed pipe. Or would I also need to wrap the pipe inside the chase with insulation?

With respect to the wood, I was told by a couple of local sources that moisture is not a problem around here, as Bozeman is in a very arid climate and all the local wood is fir and pine. I was told that if you purchase wood in early summer it is seasoned almost too well by fall. I'll look into that more. Thanks

 

[oconnor]

Bret, thank you for that bit. I know the dealer recommended double wall from the stove on up, but once outside the roof I will make sure to have a decorative chase built that I assume would also shield the exposed pipe. Or would I also need to wrap the pipe inside the chase with insulation?

With respect to the wood, I was told by a couple of local sources that moisture is not a problem around here, as Bozeman is in a very arid climate and all the local wood is fir and pine. I was told that if you purchase wood in early summer it is seasoned almost too well by fall. I'll look into that more. Thanks

Re chimney - Always best to follow whatever instructions the manufacturer provides. I'd be more inclined to get a heavier insulated chimney and a simple chase instead of insulating the chase. Most likely you won't wrap the chimney for insulation - they usually require air circulation for cooling.

 

[jillybeansisme]

What I've learned so far is that the ones who are going to sell you the wood are going to tell you it is no problem. GET YOUR WOOD NOW and keep on getting it so that you have about a 3 year supply. It does not start seasoning unless it is split and the harder the wood, the longer it takes (oak takes 3 years . . . maybe 2 in the "arid" climates).

I was all set to get a soapstone fireplace and then I found out a few things that have changed my mind. I had 5 tears in my rotator cuff repaired and bone shaved -- I want an easy to fire up stove with the ambiance of the flames that will heat the house but not roast me out (gee . . . sound familiar?). I think I've settled on the Pacific Energy Super 27 with splurging on the cast iron legs rather than the pedestal. The reason for this is the firebox is almost square, you can load it up and have decent burn times, it is non-catalytic and an easier start, and you can put some slabs of soap stone on top if you wanted to. It is very reasonably priced and I have yet to find a bad review on it. I've been told since I have a ceiling fan in the room in which it will be located that I won't need the blower, but I'll get a second opinion on that before I believe it.

Do you have a local dealer where you can see some different ones in action and have them show you how to use it? Might be a good idea.

Best of luck on your huge renovation -- be careful of asbestos in those walls.

 

[ThinAir]

What I've learned so far is that the ones who are going to sell you the wood are going to tell you it is no problem. GET YOUR WOOD NOW and keep on getting it so that you have about a 3 year supply. It does not start seasoning unless it is split and the harder the wood, the longer it takes (oak takes 3 years . . . maybe 2 in the "arid" climates).

I was all set to get a soapstone fireplace and then I found out a few things that have changed my mind. I had 5 tears in my rotator cuff repaired and bone shaved -- I want an easy to fire up stove with the ambiance of the flames that will heat the house but not roast me out (gee . . . sound familiar?). I think I've settled on the Pacific Energy Super 27 with splurging on the cast iron legs rather than the pedestal. The reason for this is the firebox is almost square, you can load it up and have decent burn times, it is non-catalytic and an easier start, and you can put some slabs of soap stone on top if you wanted to. It is very reasonably priced and I have yet to find a bad review on it. I've been told since I have a ceiling fan in the room in which it will be located that I won't need the blower, but I'll get a second opinion on that before I believe it.

Do you have a local dealer where you can see some different ones in action and have them show you how to use it? Might be a good idea.

Best of luck on your huge renovation -- be careful of asbestos in those walls.

Thanks for the wood recommendation, I will order some wood here soon. I happened to look into the Super 27, the Alderlea T5 and a couple of Jotul stoves today. I am posting tonight my findings. I think the PE super 27/Alderlea T5 would be a very wise choice. Thanks again!!

 

[jillybeansisme]

And put some ceiling fans in that renovation! Right where you probably have ceiling lights now you can retrofit the support for the fan with a light. Then you have a way for the hot air to lower down faster (remember, hot air rises). Love to hear your findings on the PES27/AlT5 (besides the price difference!).