Newbie Burning Practices

[jlinz]

Hi Folks,

This is my second year burning and I'm hoping you can maybe critique my practices. I know I need to work on a lot need some help for sure, because I kind of don't know what I'm doing, haha.

First, I have a Drolet 1800i Insert in a 20 ft or so exterior masonry chimney with a SS liner that is insulated.

I tend to just burn now and again when really cold in 1979 bi level house. The primary heat is heat pump, but downstairs gets chilly. The insert is on the bottom floor.

Last season I did a few break in fires and maybe once burned a good long fire through the afternoon and until late at night.

Since I am waiting for wood to season, I've been using GREN bricks from Rural King, which light up easily and nicely.

NOW, here is where I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong...

I have a stove top thermometer, and usually just barely get it up to the optimal burning area. I've been putting 4 or 5 bricks in but keeping the damper fully opened. Sometimes I get brave and close it just a bit. So, I get up to maybe anywhere between 300-400 on the thermometer. I'm only maybe raising the temp for the downstairs area by about 8 or 9 degrees. (I see now that I'm probably letting all the heat go straight up the flu, haha. Maybe I'm torching the liner?) I hardly see any fog or blackness on the glass and only very occasionally (on start up) notice any smoke coming out of the chimney, so hopefully not making too much creosote even if the thermometer temps are not optimal.

I imagine I should probably pack in more bricks and damp down more when they get burning nicely. No idea how many, and what could lead to overfiring.

Maybe somebody can help get me on track with my practices here?

Anyway, I have the bricks for most of the rest of the season and need help getting better at burning.

 

[shortys7777]

I have an insert. I put my meter under the lip at the flue collar, stove top. and right above the front door. When the stove is burning good I'm usually not scared unless its pushing 550+. I did a bunch of searching on here last year and saw some people cruise above 600+. My liner is 15ft and I can close my damper 90% on a full load going while maintaining that temp. I do close it all the way for a while if I see the temps up near 600. Not sure if that helps. I'm sure others will chime in. I think you should try slowly closing the damper and as temps rise close a little more and cruise at 400 if thats what you feel is a safe temp.

 

[agonyzhou]

I imagine I should probably pack in more bricks and damp down more when they get burning nicely. No idea how many, and what could lead to overfiring.

GREN brick is only 2 lb each. If I were you and I want serious heat, I'd put 10 in. Just watch the fire, it is not that easy to over fire. You have a blower and a damper control.

 

[jlinz]

GREN brick is only 2 lb each. If I were you and I want serious heat, I'd put 10 in. Just watch the fire, it is not that easy to over fire. You have a blower and a damper control.

Thanks. So if I fear the temp is climbing too high, I close the damper?

 

[nola mike]

That stove looks *very* similar to my insert (I believe both are made by SBI). I have maybe a 15' insulated interior chimney. I seldom pack it with just bricks, but 4 bricks in there is nothing. You won't get much heat out of it. I'll put 8 or so in there plus a couple of splits. That will get it good and hot, but it's easily controllable and tough to overfire, unlike my jotul. Max heat output is probably 1/3 open for me, and it will cool if the damper is completely closed. I also use a candy thermometer to measure the temperature of the air coming out of the top. Dependent on fan speed, but it's consistent at a given speed and I think is much more reliable than trying to get a temperature on the door.

 

[jlinz]

That stove looks *very* similar to my insert (I believe both are made by SBI). I have maybe a 15' insulated interior chimney. I seldom pack it with just bricks, but 4 bricks in there is nothing. You won't get much heat out of it. I'll put 8 or so in there plus a couple of splits. That will get it good and hot, but it's easily controllable and tough to overfire, unlike my jotul. Max heat output is probably 1/3 open for me, and it will cool if the damper is completely closed. I also use a candy thermometer to measure the temperature of the air coming out of the top. Dependent on fan speed, but it's consistent at a given speed and I think is much more reliable than trying to get a temperature on the door.

Right, thanks. I think I've just been babying it, because I've been nervous with it since it's all new to me.

 

[gthomas785]

Yes add more fuel and turn down the damper gradually as the temperature rises.

Your stove should be fine burning a full load safely. Worst case it may just give off too much heat for the ambient conditions and you'll be roasted out of the room.

 

[jlinz]

Yes add more fuel and turn down the damper gradually as the temperature rises.

Your stove should be fine burning a full load safely. Worst case it may just give off too much heat for the ambient conditions and you'll be roasted out of the room.

Is there a good temp to start dampening down, given that a decent fire is going and the damper is still opened? Or, is it something I just need to kind of figure out myself by trial and error?

 

[shortys7777]

I think its sometimes depends on your wood and how well its lit. My first year i was paranoid and lowered it when the flames got crazy and heat went up. Only to realize 5 minutes later its basically all out. My wood was bad that year. Its easier with dry wood and experience. Its the 3rd season and I can tell when it's time to start closing the damper. I usually do it in 2 increments now and can get it pretty good.

 

[gthomas785]

It depends on your stove and chimney, but for example I start turning mine down when stovetop reaches 450-500F. The stove can hit 700F without cause for concern. It partly depends how much heat you want. Don't shut it down too soon or you'll choke the fire and create a smokey smoldery mess. You'll quickly figure out what works and what doesn't.

 

[jlinz]

It depends on your stove and chimney, but for example I start turning mine down when stovetop reaches 450-500F. The stove can hit 700F without cause for concern. It partly depends how much heat you want. Don't shut it down too soon or you'll choke the fire and create a smokey smoldery mess. You'll quickly figure out what works and what doesn't.

Just to double check, are you talking about temps on a magnetic thermometer on the front of an insert or on the flue?

 

[Riteway]

I have the same insert. If you're only seeing chimney smoke on start-up and your glass isn't blackening, then it sounds like your burning practices are good. Like the others have mentioned, for more heat, chuck some more bricks in there.

I also have a thermometer on my stove top, and find that keeping the insert in the 400 to 500 range is pretty optimal (I'm using mixed cord word). I've had it up to 600 before with no issues, but that's probably a bit above optimal. Once I hit 500, I make sure the air control is fully closed. Keep in mind, I have so-so draft (12' chimney), so other folks with the same insert with higher chimneys may need to close the air sooner.

Don't be alarmed if you smell some paint fumes once you hit 500 or so...if you've never hit that temp before the stove paint my off-gas a bit initially.

 

[gthomas785]

Just to double check, are you talking about temps on a magnetic thermometer on the front of an insert or on the flue?

I use an infrared thermometer right on the top plate of my freestanding stove. With an insert it's harder to get a stovetop reading but I think it is comparable to the temperature right above the door on the front of the insert.

 

[jlinz]

I have the same insert. If you're only seeing chimney smoke on start-up and your glass isn't blackening, then it sounds like your burning practices are good. Like the others have mentioned, for more heat, chuck some more bricks in there.

I also have a thermometer on my stove top, and find that keeping the insert in the 400 to 500 range is pretty optimal (I'm using mixed cord word). I've had it up to 600 before with no issues, but that's probably a bit above optimal. Once I hit 500, I make sure the air control is fully closed. Keep in mind, I have so-so draft (12' chimney), so other folks with the same insert with higher chimneys may need to close the air sooner.

Don't be alarmed if you smell some paint fumes once you hit 500 or so...if you've never hit that temp before the stove paint my off-gas a bit initially.

How do you like the insert?

 

[Riteway]

How do you like the insert?

I really like it. It's the only "modern" wood-burning appliance I've used so I don't really have anything to compare it to, but I have no complaints. I have a one story rambler with a short chimney (12') and was thinking I'd need a chimney extension, but it seems to draft fine as-is. It heats up the house well, and the fan is pretty quiet. It seems like a pretty solid unit, especially considering that it costs much less than most other inserts out there. Ordered from Costco, the insert, chimney liner, and faceplate came to $1,500. Here's my install thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/drolet-escape-1800-insert-install.182495/
Pics of completed install are at the end.

 

[jlinz]

I really like it. It's the only "modern" wood-burning appliance I've used so I don't really have anything to compare it to, but I have no complaints. I have a one story rambler with a short chimney (12') and was thinking I'd need a chimney extension, but it seems to draft fine as-is. It heats up the house well, and the fan is pretty quiet. It seems like a pretty solid unit, especially considering that it costs much less than most other inserts out there. Ordered from Costco, the insert, chimney liner, and faceplate came to $1,500. Here's my install thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/drolet-escape-1800-insert-install.182495/
Pics of completed install are at the end.

I got the same Costco deal. It was a great deal.

 

[nola mike]

I use an infrared thermometer right on the top plate of my freestanding stove. With an insert it's harder to get a stovetop reading but I think it is comparable to the temperature right above the door on the front of the insert.

I haven't found that to be true

 

[agonyzhou]

I haven't found that to be true

I point my IR gun at the center of the glass; it is hotter than stove top so you have to adjust your rule of thumb. You want to see at least 600F for a non-cat insert at it's hottest; 1000F will be too hot.

 

[nola mike]

I point my IR gun at the center of the glass; it is hotter than stove top so you have to adjust your rule of thumb. You want to see at least 600F for a non-cat insert at it's hottest; 1000F will be too hot.

I'd also be suspect of an ir temp off a reflective surface...

 

[shortys7777]

The glass will always be hotter. I also use above the door on my insert.

 

[agonyzhou]

The glass will always be hotter. I also use above the door on my insert.

Problem of that is it reacts slower, and is affected by blower very much. With a insert the blower is a necessity.

 

[gthomas785]

I haven't found that to be true

Problem of that is it reacts slower, and is affected by blower very much. With a insert the blower is a necessity.

It won't be exactly the same. You always have to figure out the optimal temperatures for your particular stove / chimney setup / measuring location because the temperature varies all over the stove. I just offered that to give the best comparison to my freestanding stove temp readings.

After a while, you will learn what the fire should look/feel like before turning it down and then you won't need the thermometer anymore.

 

[agonyzhou]

I'd also be suspect of an ir temp off a reflective surface...

For IR, glass is nearly "black" and has a emissivity of 0.92:

Infrared Emissivity Table

www.thermoworks.com

 

[nola mike]

For IR, glass is nearly "black" and has a emissivity of 0.92:

Infrared Emissivity Table

www.thermoworks.com

Interesting. Although the stove "glass" isn't really glass. I wonder if that still holds true.

 

[jlinz]

Took everyone's advice and packed the stove down. We are running 88 degrees ambient temp in the basement right now. Wife and dog love it, but it's too hot for me, haha.