Newbie conundrum / Ceiling Connector

[bloobeem]

First of all thanks to all the folks questions and threads I've looked thru for an answer - unfortunately I did not find the solution as of yet. Truly there are far more creative then I and knowing this I'll do my best to explain.

More than likely a couple pictures would help and I have them q'd up for that.

1st off the chase that had to be utilized is where it is and the reason for this is the bedroom above (limited to the space it has) somewhat made that decision for us. While it made that decision it didn't provide the solution to the problem we now face on the 1st floor.

The Selkirk chimney is installed aft the Ceiling Connector mounted securely to the 1st floor ceiling which is/runs adjacent to the the existing brick chimney (venting the boiler and water heater in the basement) through both floors and out the roof as they do. Having to make provision for a new chimney chase and a couple of closets a stairwell to the attic was removed to make room for all three (2 closets and the new chimney chase).

What was thought at one time to be a clever solution has turned into the conundrum we now face and that is that the Ceiling Connector (with the single wall stove pipe hanging down from it for eventual wood stove hook up) is far too close to the wall that the back of the wood stove will face - parallel installation.

From the wall (1st floor - stove wall) the center of the 6" stove pipe exiting the bottom of the Ceiling Connector is but 9" (inches) to center. Leaving from the sheet rock/plaster&lathe a 6" space and that is that.

The unit/ wood stove allows with the optional rear heat shield 13" (inches) to shield and 17" to pipe and this with double walled stove pipe. Again this is a conundrum to us. Any insight you may have or oversight that we've made thus far pointed out is much appreciated.

Directly behind the wall of where the unit is placed in the parallel mock-up picture is the old bricked chimney. So at that point the wall has but plaster and lathe and a layer of 1/2 sheet rock now covering it a total of no more than 1 inch to gain. The wood stove room is relatively small as well and so the the tighter to the wall the better.

 

[DAKSY]

You should be able to use double wall connector with that set-up. ICC Excel's ULTRABlack product can be installed at 6" from combustibles...

 

[bloobeem]

You should be able to use double wall connector with that set-up. ICC Excel's ULTRABlack product can be installed at 6" from combustibles...

Awesome Daksy! Obviously you see what's up there now. It's a Selkirk Ceiling Connector. Having little knowledge of such things the question comes to mind - are such things as the one photo'd above somewhat universal? Meaning currently the Selkirk chimney material is now (above it) nested in that black C' connector and if not mistaken secured/screwed by the collar design of the double walled chimney pipe (above it) to that single walled black stove pipe hanging down. I suppose I'm a bit confused as to how that went together as the fella that connected it is no longer working with me and checking with him out of the question as to how the Chimney (pipe) material (Selkirk) the C' connector and that black stove pipe hanging down are all married up. Which raise the question of how to get that black stove pipe below the C' connector off and replace with stove pipe you recommend as I think a decent amount of weight may be on the connector currently (?) Well - we will do what has to be done no matter - curious tho'

Any more insight is beyond greatly appreciated! Thank you so much.

Also, I was considering doing something more along the line of the following positioning of the stove. Perhaps utilizing a mass behind it of sandstone I've got stashed to help with maintaining warmth in the room.

Thanks again Daksy!

 

[DAKSY]

The Class A above the support box is supposed to have a connector pipe adapter inserted INTO the bottommost section of chimney or ONTO that section BEFORE it's installed into the support box. I really can't tell from your pic what you have there. Generally speaking, sections of Class A are not compatible from different MFRs. The same can be said about connector pipe, but one manufacturer's connector should easily connect to another manufacturer's Class A.

 

[begreen]

For the mating of the double wall to the ceiling support box it's easiest to stick with the same brand pipe all the way. If ICC Excel pipe is hard to get in your area, check the big box stores like Menards for Selkirk DSP pipe. Selkirk makes a universal adapter (T-CPA) for connecting their double-wall DSP pipe to the ceiling support. Your installation will end up something like this:



The adapter, finishing band and telescoping pipe comes in kit form, Selkirk part #26610. You may also need a stove flue adapter, depending on the stove's flue outlet collar.

 

[bloobeem]

Thanks again Daksy... I have feeling and it's one that cannot be set aside. Therefore I am going to tear-off the sheetrock in the closet above so as to access the chase (made to run the Class A thru' the 2nd floor) and examine the connection carefully. If not mistaken the single walled stove pipe had/has a collar that while it rests on the topside of the C' connector/support box the Selkirk (Class A) twisted onto it. Which means... I've got to remove the support box (right?) and acquire the proper stove pipe (suggested by you above) or its engineered equal from the Selkirk product line - and to make sure all hell doesn't come down - double check and make certain (by removing the sheet rock - just finished painting it too) that the Class A is well bracketed and secured. Yikes. Must do. Well still better than a sharp stick in the eye.

 

[begreen]

Is this the part you installed?

 

[bloobeem]

For the mating of the double wall to the ceiling support box it's easiest to stick with the same brand pipe all the way. If ICC Excel pipe is hard to get in your area, check the big box stores like Menards for Selkirk DSP pipe. Selkirk makes a universal adapter (T-CPA) for connecting their double-wall DSP pipe to the ceiling support. Your installation will end up something like this:

View attachment 86602

The adapter, finishing band and telescoping pipe comes in kit form, Selkirk part #26610. You may also need a stove flue adapter, depending on the stove's flue outlet collar.

Excellent! this "(T-CPA)" means what? Is it a universal term for such a part?

Headin' over to the Selkirk site now...

Right on begreen - really appreciate the Maurice Maeterlinck quote. True enough.

 

[bloobeem]

Is this the part you installed?

View attachment 86604

Yes... yes it is the part.

 

[bloobeem]

For the mating of the double wall to the ceiling support box it's easiest to stick with the same brand pipe all the way. If ICC Excel pipe is hard to get in your area, check the big box stores like Menards for Selkirk DSP pipe. Selkirk makes a universal adapter (T-CPA) for connecting their double-wall DSP pipe to the ceiling support. Your installation will end up something like this:

View attachment 86602

The adapter, finishing band and telescoping pipe comes in kit form, Selkirk part #26610. You may also need a stove flue adapter, depending on the stove's flue outlet collar.

I went to the Selkirk site and downloaded a parts pdf currently looking thru' it and in doing so discovered the following of which I thought may come in handy in the future. I don't know if this catalog has been revised or updated - that said I wrote to them directly to see if such things can be had in the States as a disclaimer says that telescoping lengths are only available to our brothers and sisters to the north (Canada). No reply as of yet.

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure about your local stores, call around. It is available online:
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6543

 

[bloobeem]

In addition to all the above and I can see it would help with the clearance issues a bit (at least as parallel install goes in my particular situation) what pro's and cons might be offered by yoo's gentlemen regarding adding the following:

 

[begreen]

With a telescoping pipe that's not necessary. What make/model stove is this?

 

[bloobeem]

With a telescoping pipe that's not necessary. What make/model stove is this?

Harman Oakwood. Why? whatcha thinking? ("not necessary"). Certainly curious my friend. The 'idea' of 'clean-out' sounds good anyhow - to me. Also it kicks the stove out and helps with the clearance issue a bit. (???) Did you have any thoughts as to putting it (the wood stove) on the diag' as shown in the mock up pic. (?) I'll Check back in the AM after feedin' the chickens and a cup of Jo'. Thankx again 'begreen.

 

[begreen]

In some stoves it's easy to pop out the baffle and clean the stove. That's why I asked.

With a telescoping pipe you can lift it up off the stove and slip a bag around the pipe for cleaning. No problem if you want to drop in a clean out tee instead.

 

[rideau]

I have ICC Excel Ultrablack, installed years ago for my Fireview. The support box is attached to the ceiling at the same distance from the wall as yours. Then there are immediately 2 45 degree bends to move the pipe out far enough, to a telescoping stovepipe, to go into the rear of a FIreview, which has an 18 inch rear clearance. No problem, and I think two 45s give you a better draft than a 90. When I installed my PH (6 or 7 inch rear clearance) the pipe slid right on the top vent. Have a great draft, no problem, wall stays cool.

Selkirk must have a comparable installation available. You can surely move your stove out thus to the 13 inch required rear clearance. Hopefully you can ascertain that your install is per directions without tearing everything out to check. Maybe you can use a fibreoptic camera to look if necessary? Don't know if you can rent one at a rental place?

Don't count on getting much heat absorbed or radiated by putting something behind the stove. They are well shielded on the back and radiate little heat back there on purpose because they are against a wall usually.

 

[begreen]

The Oakwood is a downdraft stove with the secondary combustion chamber at the rear of the stove. It will get hot back there. Ya don't want to scrimp on its clearances.

 

[bloobeem]

I've read the installation instructions enough to know "begreen's" on the money. This particular model - not much variance was granted to combustibles on behalf of the rear heat shield. So right on "begreen" - "The Oakwood is a downdraft stove with the secondary combustion chamber at the rear of the stove. It will get hot back there." I'd like to share more pic's of the progress thus far. Yet I'm going to set the mock-up stove back into the position I've decided it will go. The parallel install has been nix'd for the diag' position. So let me do this tomorrow (Wednesday) and with time I'll upload for review and perhaps some more excellent observations For now I only have the following pic to offer of which "rideau" was nice enough to address. Still I have a question involving the specific positioning of the stove (needing to cut out flooring for the pad etc etc) which I'm not certain can be known until the following is understood.

So the pic shows once again the Ceiling Connector - which I think is what Harman actually refers to it. That said the pipe now shown in the photo is a single walled pipe. What is (bottom-line) required for me to change it to double walled black? Not the clearances... actually what do I do now? I can take it. Go ahead and give me the bad news. I personally don't see anything in the catalogue that can slip over this single walled show in the pic. Of course it can be easily trimmed back closer to the ceiling to maybe accept some connection so as to 45 it almost immediately yet I fail to see how the whole thing (stove pipe/black double walled and Class A Chimney) will work in some overall desired and safe symbiotic fashion. Am I missing something you all see? It there such a part?

Thankx for working with me. I must say this is a fascinating field and I'm really thinking about a bit of a career change. In fact just recently a local Hardware and Stove shop owner I've known for years suggested I get certified. (?) This one is very important lieu of that pursuit. Perhaps its the New Year, however I do like this field. There are things very straight forward that have to be observed and always considered yet the end result has much to do with creativity and practicality. Anyhow enough of my dreams... for now its all about listening. Thankx fellas.

 

[bloobeem]

When I installed my PH

Whats a PH? It's late I should poke around to find out - but I must admit... I'm pooped.

 

[begreen]

PH = shorthand for the Woodstock Progress Hybrid.

Where did that brick wall come from? That changes the picture. What's on the other side of it? Based on the described installation of how the single wall connector was installed it sounds like you would need to open up the chase, lift up the class A pipe, and remove this single-wall starter piece. That would be a giant pain at this point. Insead I'm wondering if you could use pipe heat shields on this starter piece and proceed connecting the stove. If the brick wall has no combustibles on the back side then the Oakwood's clearances may be moot.

http://www.doitbest.com/Chimney components-Imperial Mfg Group-model-BM0133-doitbest-sku-473634.dib

 

[bloobeem]

Hats off to Jeff (?)! Obviously someone from this thread. Very very cool. Talk about going the extra mile - whew! Right on! He wrote to a Selkirk rep and as a result I was given some additional options to consider.

The following is pasted below:

Marchand, Karen <[email protected]>
8:51 AM (4 hours ago)

to me

D,

The 6” CPA (Chimney Pipe Adapter) is the “correct” component for transitioning between the DSP (Double-wall Stove Pipe) and the Selkirk MetalBest Chimney.

If you want the Chimney Pipe Adapter together with the DSP Telescoping Length, you would get the Vertical Installation Kit (which I think is what you’re trying to reference. It’s part number however is # 266610 or more commonly DSP6VK.) To use this though you would need to 1st remove the current DSAC. As I think you’re suggesting, this is not the easy option since you need to raise all the previously installed chimney lengths.

The major difference between the CPA and DSAC is the length of the single wall sleeve. The DSAC sleeve is long so you can use it with single wall stove pipe as a slip connector. The CPA single wall sleeve is very short because we want all of it to disappear inside the DSP. Otherwise, any exposed portion still requires the 18” clearance instead of the 6” for DSP.

I’m sure this isn’t going to be the easiest suggestion however……if you had the ability (tools, helper, etc.) you could trim off the DSAC sleeve. Then you wouldn’t need the Vertical Installation Kit, but just the Telescoping Length instead (which is known as DSP6TL).

It may be helpful to discuss this over the phone instead of through email. If you’d like to do that, feel free to contact me directly at 740-385-5666 or 616-656-8383. Both come straight to me.

Karen Marchand
Technical Sales Support Specialist

Selkirk Venting – USA
H & C / AMP
740-385-5666
800-848-2149

Therefore, as of right this moment I'm inclined to cut the existing DSAC sleeve using a diamond edged Sawzall blade ensuring a smooth slice. I'm still waiting back to hear from the lovely Karen with some additional questions in lieu of that option. Until then - I'm slipping into my coveralls lacing up the boots and heading to the job to do some clean up and position the mock-up stove into it approximate location after cutting the DSAC back to the 1.5" to 2" collar required to retrofit the new DPS 45 which I'll have to order yet - along with all the rest of the fittings.

begreens question: "Where did that brick wall come from?" Well wanting to get the most clearance possible the archway to the left of the stove suggested (by its width) that it was a good possibility that directly behind the existing chimney that I may discover 4"s of usable space. I did not however. Only slightly under 2" ultimately after removing a little 1 foot wing wall off the chimney (that I wanted out anyhow that tied into that arch) and thus after stripping off the lathe/plaster and drywall there was the back side of the old chimney. Since the brick is not necessarily combustible, I'd like to Durarock directly over it and work the stone I've been chipping away at into the the entire scheme. Again this all will have to be stared at for a bit. Once the stone goes up - it's staying up.

Again... thanks to all. Whew! What an education. One that leaves me wanting more and more.

 

[begreen]

If you are cutting the stove pipe, I wouldn't use a sawzall for concerns about it being to aggressive and introducing a lot of chatter. Perhaps something more controllable would be in order?But after seeing the brick wall I think you have much less an issue than first was apparent.

While on the phone to Selkirk, ask about installing the pipe shields I posted the link for. They reduce clearances for single wall to 6".