Newbie desperately seeking.....

[hotdawg]

ADVICE And lots of it! I've been lurking on this forum for awhile now absorbing as much as I can. We've been talking about getting a pellet stove for a good year now with oil being so expensive. I just had my oil tank filled first time this season ($1000 X 4.5 fillings/year) to keep the house at a very cool 63-67 degrees in the winter. Not toasty 70s like you guys with all the great stoves, but just a cool mid 60s. Yes, I have pellet/wood stove envy! I've been to a ton of showrooms for all the top brands Harman, Quadra Fire, Avalon, St. Croix, the list goes on. I was set on the Quadra Fire Mount Vernon free standing pellet stove for the top feed capability and also multi-fuel burn. Now I'm not so sure. I have to admit, I did snub my nose at the thought of buying a pellet stove from a big box store like HD or Lowes based on my ignorance and my assumption that those stoves are made of inferior quality and will not last the season. In general, poor quality and bad support and I thought it was important to go with an all inclusive Stove specialty store and of course buy their $650 stone hearth pad. I was almost ready if somewhat unhappily going down that route until I came across this forum. Now I see the big box store pellet stoves in a new light! Apparently all my preconceived notions were wrong based on this forum and what all the posters have to say about these stoves and the manufacturer. And more surprisingly, it's manufactured right in the USA with tech support!

There's about a $2K price difference between the Mount Vernon and the 10 CPM, maybe even more if we end up with a factory refurb from AM FM Stoves. If money was not an issue, would you buy the more expensive one (according to my wife MORE EXPENSIVE=PRETTIER=BETTER) or stick with a work horse like the 10 CPM that can burn 50+ bags of pellets without cleaning?? I'm completely open to any advice you guys can give me. I'm more interested in what can warm our house more versus how pretty it will look in the living room. Even if not these two units, any other suggestions for warming a 3000 sq ft colonial with walk up familyroom and all bedrooms upstairs. Also, is the ability to burn multi-fuel important or just a nice to have? The showroom near me quoted a $7500 for the stove, install, 3 tons of pellets. I think the hearth pad might be extra. Thanks!

AND THIS FORUM IS AWESOME!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Welcome to the forum.

A stove for 3000 square feet isn't an easy beast to find and attempting to fit one to that much space might come up short on options.

To do the job properly requires that you know or can come up with your maximum heat loss figure.

Can you provide the sizing information on and type of your oil eater?

 

[ghandy131]

For a hearth board, look up Hearth Classics. My wife loved them and ours just came in. $325. Took 2.5 weeks for delivery. Now with my 10-CPM and 3 tons of Fireside Ultras sitting in the garage, I am just waiting for our installer. Costs: 10-CPM $2400 from HD, 3 tons Fireside ultras delivered $597 HD (used Lowes 10% on pellets and stove), 33000 chimney kit from Englander $300, an extra 12" and 6" Duravent pipe and an additional strap $70, Hearth Classic $325, permit $40 and installer $350. Total <$4100 setup with 3 tons of fuel. Can't wait to get this thing going. Did 2, 3 hour burns out in the driveway and all seemed good except pellets were sticking in the bin. Read some here and took some OO steel wool and buffed up the bin. Smooth as a baby's but now.

 

[hossthehermit]

Always remember, "Happy wife, Happy life". Proud husband of one happy wife, and 3 X's

 

[kykel]

Take a look at the Enviro Line, I have the M55cast rated for 2500 sq ft. Its multi fuel and doesnt require much cleaning. I looked at the Mt vernon and the Harmon xxv but the boss lady wasnt thrilled with the price tag. I stumbled across the enviro line and fell in love with the stove. $3200 out the door and loving it. Did my own hearth pad and install so not much cost there.

 

[Heaterhunter]

I wouldn't plan on your new stove heating your entire 3000 Sq ft. With that being said it will heat a large portion of the downstairs and a heavy assist on your upstairs, depening on your layout. You'll be very happy burning pellets and as you burn you'll figrue things out that may help you distribute your pellet stove heat more effectively. Good luck and enjoy all the heat.

 

[whit]

On the Quadra-Fires, the only one I know from experience is the Santa Fe I've been running through a couple of winters. I like the looks of it. The engineering - well let's just say it's engineered like a Chevy, not a luxury car. The guys who installed it, as it happens, spoke well of the generic-looking pellet stoves the big box stores sell, which they've also installed. I suspect I mostly paid for the looks. Kicks out a decent amount of heat though.

 

[jtakeman]

Welcome hotdawg,

Keep us posted and pictures please!

 

[Indiana]

Mr. Hotdawg,

Good for you on considering a pellet stove. You will not be disappointed. With that being said. What stove should you buy?? That is an individual taste and opinion. I myself have a 10-cpm. Mine is a re-manufactured stove from am/fm energy. It's about half the price of a new one and it has the same warranty as a new one. When I bought it, I was unsure how well it would work for me and if I would even like it. Well those thoughts went out the window, or out the flue, after the 3rd day. I am hooked. I bought it based on price and service. As all of us know the Englander tech support is tops. There are some more attractive stoves out there by other manufactures. Honestly, I felt that the 10-cpm from Englander was a bit bulky. At first, I was going to give it a year. If I liked it enough, I would move the 10-cpm to the basement and put another stove in my living room. Now I can see it's just right. I heat my whole home to 70+ degrees all winter long. I'm saving $4000 a year in propane and best of all...I'm comfortable in my own home. I'm still thinking of putting a stove in the basement. It's going to be another Englander. The
55-trpah. Now don't think that this is a dump in a bag and walk away heat for the winter. There is some maintenance involved. Every few days the stove needs a quick cleaning. and every month a good cleaning. It's lugging in a 40# bag of pellets once a day during the shoulder season and one in the morning and one at night during the bitter times. It's so easy to do that my 11 year old fills up the hopper when needed and my 5 and 8 year old start the fire. Just press the button. This year I hooked up the thermostat. Now it's just like our other heat. But cheaper. With all that to do...I wouldn't change a thing. Even my wife looks at the price of pellets and can't stop herself from promoting the comfort and dollar savings. Good luck in your choice. It's a tough decision to make. No matter what brand you chose you will be happy with the comfort. You should buy the biggest BTU output stove you can. You can always turn it down, but it only goes up so far.

Indy3

 

[doghouse]

Get the Englander and spend the difference insulating and weather proofing your home.

 

[hotdawg]

Hey everyone! Thanks for the warm welcome. I love getting advice from experts and owners. Keep them coming!

The pellet stove I'm looking to install will just be supplemental heat. I want the family to be warm and comfy in our house this year instead of a semi-cold state all winter. I really didn't expect it to warm my entire house. Would be nice but total pipe dream. This will be my first stove of any type, wood or pellet and if things work out, I'll probably add another one in the family room. That should take care of the downstairs where the family hangs out most of the time. Hopefully heat rises, so the upstairs will be okay. Just have to circulate the warm air around the house a little. Not sure how much in savings we'll see this year but we're excited to see! The wife seems okay with either unit. Lucky for me she's easy to convince. I did mention money saved from fancy pellet stove = more shopping money! (Think that did the trick)

At this point, we're pretty flexible on which stove to get. I just want the most bang for the buck and the Englander 10-CPM is on top of that list if not the top. I've been stalking this forum all day today gathering as much information on pellet stoves as I can find and came to the conclusion that there's no perfect stove out there. It's just whatever works for each individual. There's always going to be problems, even with the "high end" stoves. I'm just preparing myself to the inevitable that there will be problems and lucky for me I love to "tinker" so that shouldn't be a problem. The Englander stoves seems to have the best customer service support with easy access to parts, and more importantly, MADE IN USA! Need to pump money back into our economy! So, at this point I'm just going to take everyone's word for it and pull the trigger on the 10-CPM. Question now is should I get it from HD or AM/FM Energy? They have new units there for sale but in the Timber Ridge name.

Ghandy131- who do you have installing yours? I'm in Central MA too and a couple of people I talked to quoted me some crazy numbers for installation. Should I get all the parts separately and have everything ready for the install? Or have the installer supply me with everything? Do you mind if I PM you with these questions? Don't want to be a copycat but sounds like you're doing everything I want to do! Thanks!

 

[hotdawg]

Indy3, thanks for that detail account of you journey with this stove. I have a feeling I'll be going through the same thing once it's installed and we get to use it. Kinda slow to catch on, but once I'm on, you can't get me off! What kind of thermostat did you go with? I'll probably do the same.

 

[Indiana]

Go to amfmenergy.com and view the stoves. Timbers Ridge, Sumers Heat are both made by Englander for big box stores. I have the Timbers Ridge model. You can buy it new for $1799 or Re-furbished for $1199. Englander model number is 10-cpm, and TimbersRidge is 49-TRCPM. The re-furbished model is out of stock at the moment, but for $1799, it's better than $2499 from HD. Same stove. So for $1799 shipped, it's still a bargain. It's 39 degrees out side right now. It's 70 degrees in my 1st level and 67 upstairs in the bedrooms. I find that too warm to sleep so I close my bedroom door and regulate my room that way. It's trial and error. You will learn. Ceiling fans are a necessity to move the air around the house. It make the rooms more even in temp. If I leave the fans off, the room with the stove will be 72 and the adjacent room 68. With the fans on low it's 70-71 all around.

 

[hotdawg]

Indy3 - how loud does this stove get? From 5 being the loudest along the line of a generator to 1 quiet (heat from the furnace thru the vents), where would you rate this stove? I'm not planning to put it in the TV room but my wife is very sensitive with noise and our bedroom is located directly above the room where this unit is getting installed.

 

[Indiana]

Let's use 1-10 instead, with 10 standing next to a generator and 1 being your air vent with the furnace on. At startup I would say it's a 3.5 to a 4. After 10 min It's only as loud as the speed of the fan. Maybe a 2 -3. It seems noisy at first. After a few days you don't even notice it. What you do notice it the warmth and comfort.

 

[Bkins]

To my way of thinking you should be looking into a pellet furnace, especially if your thinking of adding a second stove down the road. A lot of folks on this forum I think would go with a furnace the second time around. I know I would in order to get even heat throughout the house. Remember a pellet stove is really just a large space heater and the further you get away from it the colder it will be. I doubt a furnace would use more pellets then 2 pellet stoves cranked up and the house would be evenly warmed up. You would only have 1 stove to maintain also.

I guess I should of asked what type of heat you have? Kinda assumed, there is that nasty word again, that you had forced hot air if you are heating with oil.

 

[Vinelife]

My quad is a work horse and never have had an issue, just keep it clean ..

 

[jtakeman]

To my way of thinking you should be looking into a pellet furnace, especially if your thinking of adding a second stove down the road. A lot of folks on this forum I think would go with a furnace the second time around. I know I would in order to get even heat throughout the house. Remember a pellet stove is really just a large space heater and the further you get away from it the colder it will be. I doubt a furnace would use more pellets then 2 pellet stoves cranked up and the house would be evenly warmed up. You would only have 1 stove to maintain also.

I guess I should of asked what type of heat you have? Kinda assumed, there is that nasty word again, that you had forced hot air if you are heating with oil.

Now, You talking! Pellet heat for the whole house warmth. I agree on the amount of fuel, Its takes "X" amount of BTU's. Where you can save is having enough horse power to get fast heat rise and use a setback stat for away/sleeping temps. And then bring the heat up when you home/active. Same a the other fuels. Harder to do with stove(s) IMHO.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You new folks need to understand that your winter heat loss will be much more than it is now, those stoves that drive the inside temperatures into the 80's and even low 90's at 45 degrees aren't going to be able to do that with temperatures in the 20's and 30's let alone when they get in the teens and low 20's for days on end.

That is why I asked the original question.

If hotdawg has an oil fired hot air furnace he really should look at a pellet furnace to add to it and do the job once. But that is just me.

If you take one of the "rules of thumb" you need about 35 BTUs/hr per square foot of heated space. That puts the device in the 105,000 BTUs/hr range if the place is really well insulated and has excellent windows and doesn't have a high air infiltration rate you could do it with 25 BTUs/ per square foot of heated space and that puts you at 75,000 BTUs/hr.

As for heating a just fraction of that space a single stove will do the trick. Two stoves in the 50,000 BTUs per hour range would definitely do the job as well.

 

[Vinelife]

My quad which puts out 28000 btus will keep my house at 72-73 when its just 17 out.. so pellet stoves are whole house heaters...

 

[hotdawg]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I looked into a pellet furnace, actually saw one today at Robbins' in Oxford. It's quite large but will be in the basement so no one will see. We currently heat with an oil furnace. My biggest concern was tying a pellet furnace into my heating system to heat the house and doing away with oil? I guess I like to have two options for heat. If the one pellet stove in the livingroom works out, we will look to add another one in the family room. I figure there'll be a good heat source coming from both ends of the house and maybe residual heat will rise and warm the upstairs a bit. Two pellet stoves in the house should warm at least the downstairs rooms very nicely. I also read in one of the threads here that the resale value of my house might be effected in case potential buyers do not want pellet furnace heat. I'm completely a newbie at all this talk about pellet stoves, btus and heat output. I don't know if I'm ready for pellet furnaces yet. I'm trying to ease into this process and one stove per year is my limit. Of course 2012 is right around the corner. If I get half the results as all the posters on this forum, I'm almost certain to get a second stove before the winter season is over.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You never remove the existing oil system.

It is extremely difficult to be able to get a mortgage with just a solid fuel device in a house.

Having both should aid resale value. But then with the way values have been going it would be difficult to figure out what if any thing means in terms of resale value.

 

[RiddleMasterMorgon]

Some thoughts:

Many people here report toasty temps for their 'house' using a stove - I very much doubt you will be able to do that. I certainly can not with the small stove I have, meaning my kitchen/dining/living room is warm, but my bedrooms are fairly cool (which I like).

Your 3000 sqf should ask for either a pellet furnace (assuming you have a reasonable duct work, which I somewhat doubt when you spent 4.5 k last year for oil) or consider TWO stoves, one for your downstairs and a smaller one for your family room and upstairs

CHeaper stove are not necessarily all garbage and low quality. My BOSCA was dirt cheap compared to other brands, but its rock solid (I think it also looks really great and not the classic 'bay'windows-boring look'. I think what you trade in is a likelyhood of getting a lemon, but that you will figure out fairly soon. The money you pay should go for the dealer and the promise of good service during the install and after...not to the sometimes overpriced stoves.

Other thinks I would strongly encourage to consider is noise of the stove blower - thats a real killer for living rooms IMO. And design is something to ask for two, you will look at this think the whole year and it will be somewhere central...

If you want to reap full benefit you will need to pull the trigger pretty fast - Winter is coming...

 

[RiddleMasterMorgon]

Forgot to comment on your idea that you can get away with 50 bags before cleaning the stove....that might have worked for some, but its not the normal case, plan with 15 min clean every 1-2 days and you are closer to it.