Newbie here

[17vljoe]

Well here we go, new house. Decided to finally install a wood burner. Stove is the Englander 17vl, single wall conector pipe to selkirk dubble wall ultimate one class a through the wall and up roughly 28'. I have been burning it about 3 weeks now, and decided to check my class a, and my single wall. Here are my findings. Keep in mind i am new to burning and i have had some smokey fires, i also found out that 70% of the supposed "seasoned" wood that i bought is over 20% moisture . . Does this look normal?


should i be concerned about the shiny creosote? Is it just from burning some wet wood fires? Or is it my conector pipe being single wall, not keeping my flue gas hot enough? Any help/ imput would be awsome. Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

 

[firefighterjake]

Shiny = usually not good.

Creosote like that typically comes from not burning at the right temp (i.e. in the Goldilocks Zone -- not too cool which helps make the stuff and not too hot which can ignite it) and/or burning wet wood and/or choking down the fire too much.

 

[Simonkenton]

What do you mean by "over 20 percent?" Do you have a moisture meter? What exactly is the percent?

 

[17vljoe]

Yeah i picked up a meter. It is all different, some is at 15-20, most is at 20 to 27, a few pieces were 35+ my meter tops out at 35.

 

[saskwoodburner]

What kind of temperatures are you running on the front and side of stove? Can you even get the secondary tubes lit up with your wood? I've burnt some wood I had no business burning (too high of moisture) as a test, and it left me severely underwhelmed.

 

[17vljoe]

After i picked up the meter i separated out some wood for now that is under 20%. The rest is getting stacked for next winter. I have only had 2-3 burns where i couldn't get it up to temp. Or where i couldnt get goot secondaries to go. I try to keep it 350-600 on the stove and above 250 18" up from the stove top. Its hard to sustain over 250 on the single wall exterior. The 17vl is a small stove if i let it run to fast it will over fire. I have had some scary/uncontrollable fires, not over fire but i didnt know the temp would level out around 600.

 

[17vljoe]

I have got some hot fire going and keep steping down the primary air until all the way closed, the stove cruises up to 600, levles off. And burns down. But i didn't know the thing would level out, Im watching the thermometer hoping it doesn't over fire. ( primary closed all the way) this whole burn i dont think my single wall got over 320 exterior temp.

 

[begreen]

320F exterior temp on single wall means an interior flue gas temp somewheres between 480-640F.

 

[17vljoe]

Ok, so i guess thats normal operating temp, im thinking 640 internal is the highest i would ever want my flue gas to be? seeing how 650 on my stove is over fire. Is it ok to keep burning the stove with that junk in the pipe?
( with dry wood) or should i run some creosote remover through it and sweep it? could this creosote be from running single wall pipe? Or just the fact that i was burning wet wood? Thanks for all the imput. Just trying to make sure i am burning correctly and safety.

 

[begreen]

What stove is this, the Englander 17vl? The reason I ask it that stove has a convection top with an air gap above the actual stove top. A thermometer on the top will read low.

 

[17vljoe]

Yes, its the Englander 17vl, thank you yeah thats where the blower air comes out of, my stove thermometer is on the side of the stove. I picked up some Imperial creosote conditioner today at my local stove shop, Ill put that through next time i light it up, and my next few burns. Hope this stuff helps flake the glossy baked on stuff so i can sweep it out.

 

[CenterTree]

The black shiny is from the wet wood, NOT the single wall pipe.

 

[begreen]

Yes, its the Englander 17vl, thank you yeah thats where the blower air comes out of, my stove thermometer is on the side of the stove. I picked up some Imperial creosote conditioner today at my local stove shop, Ill put that through next time i light it up, and my next few burns. Hope this stuff helps flake the glossy baked on stuff so i can sweep it out.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. Don't panic if the upper stove side occasionally goes over 650F. That is a good target temp with a healthy safety margin, but 700F is not overfiring. The stove pipe can get hotter without worry. it's not uncommon for it to go spike up to 800F - internal temp - for a short while on startup until the air is turned down. The pipe will start to glow dull red when it gets over 900F. Try to avoid that.

 

[17vljoe]

Ok thanks for the help! I guess i need to do my best to burn hot with good dry wood. Would the compressed wood bricks be a good supplement for dry cord wood? The manual says not to burn any kiln dried wood. I know you cant load it as much because it can take off, but is that the only reason?

 

[saskwoodburner]

Just a thought here about his system. Is it possible the tall stack might be drafting too well (in a sense) right off the hop, pulling the cold smoke up the stack before the pipe is warm inside?

Or that the air control lever is open too much, and the stove can't digest the smoke quickly enough when it's raging?

I have to say though, the pipe does look pretty shiny. The only thing I have to compare to that, is my little charcoal grill I used to smoke eggs, with a heavy, dirty smoke in a short time frame.

 

[17vljoe]

Yeah, that thought did cross my mind, i do have this little stove hooked up to a masive chimney.. but i really cant help that. The stove manual repeatedly says do NOT install any type of damper in the stove pipe. The only thing it says about over draft in the manual is "shorten chimney" how do you shorten the chimney when it has to adhere to the 10-3-2 rule?

 

[saskwoodburner]

In such a case if you believed it was overdrafting, it might be alright to consider a damper. The stove only requires so much air before it just blows heat and smoke up the stack. Sometimes things aren't as cut and dried as you would think.

Consider my set up in a mobile home, with 10 foot total height to cap (that's double wall and chimney pipe), and under certain conditions I have had less control over it than I would like (since figured a work around). A strong wind would make it hard to start, or even on a reload, as it was drafting too hard and pulling flame and smoke up the stack. The flame didn't have enough "hang time" in the box so to speak.

Can you describe your fire starting ritual, everything from size of splits, how many, how wide you leave the door open, how long until you close the door completely, how long until you shut down air, at what temps, can you describe the fire itself etc?

 

[begreen]

Maybe @stoveguy2esw can weigh in on why they put that in the manual. You can't always shorten the chimney, but adding a stove pipe damper is an option.

 

[17vljoe]

Ok, so i normaly try to start a top down fire, to keep the smoke down as much as possible. I throw 2-3 small splits and a few pieces of pallet wood, some small pallet wood pieces for kindling or a few fat wood sticks and then 2-3 rolled newspaper tied in a loose knot. Light and let roll with the primary all the way open and the door closed. I can get the stove to 300 in about 30 mins. Ill start removing primary air after about 350 till the flames slow down. And remove more as need to keep the flames moving slow. And i try to reload between 300 -400 not any hotter than 400. still new to burning a stove in general so i need to practice more, 83° here today, so ill have to wait til its a little cooler out later this week to fire it up again. I have watched videos of the 17vl burning on youtube, my stove seems to have darker orange flames at almost all stages of the fire. And i have a hard time keeping my glass clean, not sure if thats from the wet wood though. Thanks for the help.

 

[begreen]

Definitely sounds like damp wood. The stove should be up to temperature faster and have bright yellow flames that get ghostly as the air is turned down. The glass should stay clean.

Here is what dry wood burning looks like in the 17VL
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-17vl-fire-pics.72457/#post-72457

 

[saskwoodburner]

I'm not sure what to think? I'd leave the door cracked a touch off the line, even if just an eighth or quarter inch to help it take off. And 30 minutes to 300 seems slow even by my standards, and I'm quick to throttle down the air off the hop.

I'm not sure I quite agree with begreen on the flame color, but shades of yellow to orange or orange to yellow could very well differ with his eyes to mine. If I have bright yellow flame from poplar, it's usually running up the baffle like mad, or during a whoops off gassing situation. Orangish yellow is common, and blue isn't uncommon in my stove (same stove), depending on how throttled back I am.

Edit to add- I had a look at a few of my fire photos....the fire appears to have more yellow in photos than what my eyes seem to see watching a fire??

 

[beatlefan]

I'm also wondering if that very long run of external chimney might be cooling the smoke too quickly.

 

[beatlefan]

I'm also wondering if that very long run of external chimney might be cooling the smoke too quickly.

Check out woodheat.org and click on "all about chimneys," then click on "the evil outside chimney."

 

[begreen]

That shiny stuff is in the connector pipe. The wood is damp.

 

[Sprinter]

Would the compressed wood bricks be a good supplement for dry cord wood?

Yes, it can help to mix those with damper cordwood. Some people even use them alone sometimes, but you have to be very careful with that and some manufacturers discourage it outright. I think that is largely due to the fact that not all users can be trusted to be careful with it

Just how long is the flue from floor to cap? Over 25-30 ft? Thirty feet seems to be the point that causes overdraft problems, but that can vary.

Don't despair. Do the best you can this year and try to avoid the creosote. Get going on drying for next year and subsequent years. This year is a learning year. It will get better.

Get the flue professionally cleaned after this season and I'm betting next year will be a whole lot different.