Newbie needs some advice

[Ozymandias]

Hello everyone. I've been enjoying the forum for a little while now and has found it to be very helpful. I would use some advice from the experts. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger and making a purchase of a pellet insert to heat my 2800 sqft home in southern Massachusetts. This insert would replace a propane insert which doesn't have the ability to heat the house.

The fireplace where this insert would go is in the middle of the house. The chimney is about 35 feet high. I've been leaning towards a Quad Mt. Vernon. I like the heating capabilities of the insert and the ability to program the unit. I also like the looks of the stove. I know there had been some ignitor problems with this stove in the past, but it sounds like those issues have been resolved.

From my reading here, it also sounds like Quadrafire will be updating the Mt. Vernon (supposed to be this fall). One shop told me that the unit will have a wireless controller, but the unit will no longer be an "AE" model and it will also lose the pot auto-cleaning feature. This new unit will be $500 less. I wanted to know if anyone had any additional information about this newer model. Will it be replacing the Mt. Vernon AE or will it be slotted between two models? Also, are there any other features which are to be added? I don't know if I should make the purchase now and take advantage of the Massachusetts Tax Free Weekend coming up, or wait till the new model is available.

My second question is whether I should have an OAK installed or not. The last shop I was at (Acushnet Alternative Heating) the guy said that with the run required in my home since the OAK has to go out the chimney, it could cause airflow problems. He said that he could run one at minimal cost, but went on to say that the Quadrafire doesn't recommend OAKs in MA due to the humidity since it leaves the stove more susceptible to rusting.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm also open to insert recommendations. I'm not crazy about the styling of many of the pellet inserts out there, but there is a good chance that I missed a few really good looking ones. I'd like it to heat as much of my two story home as possible. I'd like it to be programmable so I can set it up for the work week. Of course, as much as possible, I'd like it to run trouble free.

Thank you in advance for your time and advice.

 

[myhearthisonfuego]

Wow I just literally posted a similar thread........people please help us

 

[smwilliamson]

Hello everyone. I've been enjoying the forum for a little while now and has found it to be very helpful. I would use some advice from the experts. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger and making a purchase of a pellet insert to heat my 2800 sqft home in southern Massachusetts. This insert would replace a propane insert which doesn't have the ability to heat the house.

The fireplace where this insert would go is in the middle of the house. The chimney is about 35 feet high. I've been leaning towards a Quad Mt. Vernon. I like the heating capabilities of the insert and the ability to program the unit. I also like the looks of the stove. I know there had been some ignitor problems with this stove in the past, but it sounds like those issues have been resolved.

From my reading here, it also sounds like Quadrafire will be updating the Mt. Vernon (supposed to be this fall). One shop told me that the unit will have a wireless controller, but the unit will no longer be an "AE" model and it will also lose the pot auto-cleaning feature. This new unit will be $500 less. I wanted to know if anyone had any additional information about this newer model. Will it be replacing the Mt. Vernon AE or will it be slotted between two models? Also, are there any other features which are to be added? I don't know if I should make the purchase now and take advantage of the Massachusetts Tax Free Weekend coming up, or wait till the new model is available.

My second question is whether I should have an OAK installed or not. The last shop I was at (Acushnet Alternative Heating) the guy said that with the run required in my home since the OAK has to go out the chimney, it could cause airflow problems. He said that he could run one at minimal cost, but went on to say that the Quadrafire doesn't recommend OAKs in MA due to the humidity since it leaves the stove more susceptible to rusting.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm also open to insert recommendations. I'm not crazy about the styling of many of the pellet inserts out there, but there is a good chance that I missed a few really good looking ones. I'd like it to heat as much of my two story home as possible. I'd like it to be programmable so I can set it up for the work week. Of course, as much as possible, I'd like it to run trouble free.

Thank you in advance for your time and advice.

Ok, so you went down to visit Luke. I have never met him but I must have 150 or more customers that bought stoves from him. Erg...where do we start....

1. Quad AE is a great insert in that it is quiet, has a large hopper, looks nice and is somewhat easy to maintain. The down side......You have to use it's thermostat which isn't wireless and putting that thermostat MOUNTED on a wall where it would make sense is usually something the dealer passes off to the customer.
   
   
2. WAY TOO MANY control sensors. Sensors that can fail and leave you with a false positive....speaking especially of the auger jam sensor or hopper thermocouple and the cleaning mechanism thingy.
   
   
3. The thing is a nightmare to pull out from the fireplace to work on
   
   
4. Has issues with igniters, loose molex plugs on the 15 in and outs on the control board, power supply issues....

The list really kinda goes on and on. There are legions of people who have had their AE stove for years and years and have had zero problems...then there is everyone else. Look, I don't have an axe to grind here, just reporting what's up. Earlier in the post I said I must have 150 customers from Luke...THEY ALL HAVE QUADS cause that's all he sells and many many many of them are AE's. Also...did they say they are getting rid of the AE? Seriously? What does that tell you?

My second question is whether I should have an OAK installed or not. The last shop I was at (Acushnet Alternative Heating) the guy said that with the run required in my home since the OAK has to go out the chimney, it could cause airflow problems. He said that he could run one at minimal cost, but went on to say that the Quadrafire doesn't recommend OAKs in MA due to the humidity since it leaves the stove more susceptible to rusting.

This part in bold is the biggest line of crap yet. Basically Luke has no idea how to run an OAK, has no idea why it may be important and basically doesn't really care to figure it out.

Sounds like you live around this way, PM me your cell # if you want to talk person to person

I've been frantically trying to set up my shop to take advatage of this tax free thing but I think I'm just going to skip it...too much pressure. I wish I could tell you to come on down and see the M55 insert...that or a Harman Accentra, oh and don't woory so much about the OAK going up 35 feet, all is possible.

 

[Ozymandias]

SMWilliamson, thanks for the information. Yes, it was Luke I spoke to. Have your 150 customers been happy with their purchasing experience (from Luke)? It sounds like I may be close to you. I am in Lakeville. Where is your showroom? Can I assume you service and sell pellet stoves/inserts?

As far as Quadrafire discontinuing the AE, I can't say that for certain. What I am gathering is that a model update is being introduced, but it may be slotted in between the MV AE and a lower model. Hard to figure it all out. I am hoping that a Quad dealer on the forum may be able to shed some light. I know the company wants to clear their inventory before introducing a new model, but I'd be upset to make a purchase of this size and then have a new model introduced. Wish I could get a better sense of what updates are expected.

What do you see as the advantages of the M55 over the Quad? I think the Harmon is a bit smaller than what I am looking for. Let me know where your store is and when it is open and I can swing by this week.

Last, based on your message it sounds like you would recommend an OAK here in MA, even if I have to run it up the chimney. Other than reducing the number of bends in the OAK vent pipe, are there watch-outs?

Thanks for the info.

Anyone else care to share there thoughts as well? There are two newbies on this thread looking for help from the experts.

 

[Defiant]

Wait for the new Harman Accentra insert, the current model is tops. Others will chime in, welcome to the forum Ozzy

 

[stovelark]

Hi Ozzy x2 for the M55 if you can look at it. I'd forget the AE too, and go with the 1200CB. Not a lot less in BTUs but a lot less in troubles. The Mount Vernon is a bear to move and work on. Never heard of an OAK causing less rust......
An OAK can usually be installed without issues as well. I'm not anti MV, just the percentages say you might have issues. The Enviro M55 isn't perfect either, but is easier/less expensive to maintain in my opinion. Good luck

 

[smwilliamson]

SMWilliamson, thanks for the information. Yes, it was Luke I spoke to. Have your 150 customers been happy with their purchasing experience (from Luke)? It sounds like I may be close to you. I am in Lakeville. Where is your showroom? Can I assume you service and sell pellet stoves/inserts?

As far as Quadrafire discontinuing the AE, I can't say that for certain. What I am gathering is that a model update is being introduced, but it may be slotted in between the MV AE and a lower model. Hard to figure it all out. I am hoping that a Quad dealer on the forum may be able to shed some light. I know the company wants to clear their inventory before introducing a new model, but I'd be upset to make a purchase of this size and then have a new model introduced. Wish I could get a better sense of what updates are expected.

What do you see as the advantages of the M55 over the Quad? I think the Harmon is a bit smaller than what I am looking for. Let me know where your store is and when it is open and I can swing by this week.

Last, based on your message it sounds like you would recommend an OAK here in MA, even if I have to run it up the chimney. Other than reducing the number of bends in the OAK vent pipe, are there watch-outs?

Thanks for the info.

Anyone else care to share there thoughts as well? There are two newbies on this thread looking for help from the experts.

Some have had alright experiences and some have not, I try to stay out of it. I will tell you though, if a dealer is doing everything they can to keep customers they won't go elsewhere... And leave it at that. I have never met Luke but would like to at some point.

I'm building my shop now in Rehoboth. I know Lakeville well, our good friends just bought a beautiful place over there and have been over helping them.

Numbers in my sig, call me if you want to chat.

 

[Ozymandias]

smwilliamson, thank you for the offer to talk. When would be a good time to give you a call?

 

[St_Earl]

saying no to an oak because it allows humidity in is *just a little* like saying using motor oil will make your car's engine messy.

if you do (or even if you don't) go with an oak, there are lots of threads here on proper end of season shut down maintenance,.

 

[smwilliamson]

smwilliamson, thank you for the offer to talk. When would be a good time to give you a call?

Any time, follow the link to website and phone number. IT will ring the office where I never am but my system will create a work ticket and forward that info to my phone in my pocket, I can call you back. No biggie, we can chat here to but sometime a lot more can be discussed quicker in a phone chat. I only offer it to you cause your local and I know all the local players...somethings I'd rather not post but can discuss if you know what I mean

 

[Ozymandias]

St. Earl, thanks for the comment. One item I should note is that the OAK would have to be run up my 35ft chimney. If during the summer months, the OAK pipe should be blocked with a stopper, then unless there is a significant benefit afforded by an OAK in my 20 year old home, I am hesitant to making a semi-annual climb on my roof, removing the chimney cap 5'x3' chimney cap and placing/removing the stopper. If the difference between OAK/no OAK is evident, then sign me up. But, if it is negligible given that my home is the age it is and likely not as airtight as some of the new construction, the perhaps I would hold off.

What does the forum think?

 

[St_Earl]

St. Earl, thanks for the comment. One item I should note is that the OAK would have to be run up my 35ft chimney. If during the summer months, the OAK pipe should be blocked with a stopper, then unless there is a significant benefit afforded by an OAK in my 20 year old home, I am hesitant to making a semi-annual climb on my roof, removing the chimney cap 5'x3' chimney cap and placing/removing the stopper. If the difference between OAK/no OAK is evident, then sign me up. But, if it is negligible given that my home is the age it is and likely not as airtight as some of the new construction, the perhaps I would hold off.

What does the forum think?

the exhaust vent should also be blocked during the off season. so consider that.
otherwise you will get more potential rust issues from humidity. and bees, birds and even bats can cause you more grief than just a trip to the roof.


they make pipe with the oak built in (selkirk ?). but i'm not sure the extra cost for that much. not insignificant i would think.

and the oak relative to airtightness isn't exactly how and why most people use it.
though for a very tight home, it would serve that purpose.
most folks actually have oaks for the opposite condition. to keep from sucking cold air in every possible crack and opening in their home as the stove draws combustion air.
also you are using air you just paid to heat as combustion air and sending it right out the vent.


i imagine you could just disconnect and block the stove off at the base. but that still leaves your venting open to off season intruders.

a few board members prefer not having an oak. and that debate has filled many a thread here.
but most folks here have them and notice better heating results because of them.

lots of these guys have way more experience than me on these issues.
and i know basically nothing about the particulars of inserts.
you found the right site though. i'm sure you'll get everything sorted in time for winter.
welcome to the forum.

 

[Ozymandias]

Thanks St. Earl. I had a good conversation today with smwilliamson and he was able to answer many questions. Sounds like there are many advantages to having an OAK. One thing I wasn't crazy about was what it may mean for my chimney capping options. I have a three flue chimney (one oil boiler, one fireplace, one fireplace with insert). I wanted to put a single and nice looking custom cap over the chimney. I learned, however, that I may not want to do that with an OAK since the oil boiler would also vent to the space. I know that pellet insert manufacturers recommend about a 10' standoff between the OAK and the chimney pipe. If the distance from the base of a large chimney cap to the the edge of the cap roof were also 10 inches, would this be an acceptable set up? I'm not crazy about the idea of having three individual caps on the chimney. Does anyone else have experience with this? Also, when you use a larger chimney cap, is a spark arrestor on the insert vent still required or does the three flu chimney cap take the place of the individual vent cap? Sorry if these are elementary questions. Still learning.

 

[smwilliamson]

You can still have a multi flue cap, I didn't say you couldn't, but it may have to be modified to allow the OAK to get air from outside the cap. Many things are possible. A home inspection by a qualified installer will yield final answers.

 

[Ozymandias]

Good to know. Thanks again. I visited the Olympia website. They mention custom caps. Perhaps I will give them a call and see what they suggest/offer.

 

[smwilliamson]

You would want to have a professional come out that deals with Olympia, they only sell to the trades. I think. Could be wrong.

 

[Ozymandias]

Hello again everyone. I'm starting to get all the information needed to pull the trigger. The M55 insert is looking to be a serious contender. I do have a couple of questions. In reading some reviews of this insert, quite a few owners mentioned buring pellets quite quickly. Was this an issue with early models that has been resolved? Buring a premium pellet, approximately how long will a bag last at a setting of 1? How about at a setting of 3?

Also, how do you all feel about using a thermostat with this insert? I want the unit to operate at a low level during work hours and then ramp up just prior to my getting home in the evening. What do you all recommend? Would a termostat cycle the ignitor too frequently causing it to fail?

 

[stovelark]

Hi Ozy- Doing the math for the M55 setting one is about 1.5 lbs/hour 60/70 lb hopper 35/40 lbs per day. Not very realistic running it on 1, not a lot of heat output. Running on 3, about 4.0 lbs/hour 60/70 lb hopper upwards to 100 lbs a day heating upwards to 2000+ sqft realistic values. If supplementing, then it uses what it uses. For thermostats, I'm not a big user. if used in hi/lo mode, it isn't a big concern for the ignitor seeing as it runs on "hi" setting (whatever you have selected, normally 3) and drops to 1 and idles when t-stat not calling for heat. In auto mode, it will cycle off and on if t-stat doesn't call for heat within a time limit. Remember, the stove only burns what you tell it to. Good luck

 

[smwilliamson]

The M55 comes in around 10k BTUs for a low heat setting where most every other stove is comfy at 8k BTUs. What does that mean? Well it's about 1/4lb more an hour. Not such a big deal. The real consumption of pellets comes from trying to bring temps up from cold to warm. It's much easier to maintain a constant burn and temp than to try and recover 20 degrees three times a day.

This insert also has a feed restriction plate in the hopper as well as some air and feed trim controls. These in combination with each other do allow for adjustments in performance and feeding up and down the heat ranges. You may never use them but they are there if you want to totally geek out.

All of the M Series stoves have pressurerized ignition systems. Inside the stove there is a little aquarium-like air pump that blows forced air over a hot electrical coil. Unlike static ignition systems, forced ingnition heats and cools evenly through the start cycle so there is much less of a chance the element will break from stress. The units have been out for over 3 years and I haven't replaced one yet and I don't know of anyone that has. Using a thermostat helps with the first part of your question about pellet usage. Embrace the thermostat, it will save you money over time.

 

[myhearthisonfuego]

Yeah Ozy i am like you I am going with the m55 tomorrow everything is lined up just gotta sign for tax free savings.....

 

[smwilliamson]

Who's yer dealer? Cast? Steel? Let us know?

 

[myhearthisonfuego]

Enchanted in Worcester, cast.......keeping it black, and dealer said don't buy the logs because they break to easily

 

[smwilliamson]

Enchanted in Worcester, cast.......keeping it black, and dealer said don't buy the logs because they break to easily

And the logs are a pain to move around when cleaning, that's when they break, good purchase