Newbie questions

[Charlie0742001]

I’ve been reading a lot of posts in here for the last few weeks and I'm very impressed with the knowledge you all possess. I have a few questions and I hope you cab help me. I’m replacing a gigantic old would stove in my 15’ by 20’ three season room. I just need some advice in which one to choose in terms of durability function and looks.. The local store is suggesting either a Quadrafire Millenium 3100 for $ 1329, a Dutchwest medium for $1349 or a Enerzone 2.3 for $ 1379. I have forced hot air and he suggested that once the fire is going good I can turn on the furnace fan and that would circulate the heat from the stove through the house which would be great. If you guys knoe of any other stoves in that price range or better prices elsewhere I’d be happy to buy online as well. Thanks in advance

 

[philaphire]

rookie as well - but I've read about that whole furnace fan thing on the forum and that doesn't seem to work. I suppose the factor is where the air return is in relation to the stove: near/far, floor/ceiling? Seems that in order for that to work, the return needs to be in the ceiling near the stove. I'll let the other wiser folks expound on this.

 

[elkimmeg]

I

have forced hot air and he suggested that once the fire is going good I can turn on the furnace fan and that would circulate the heat from the stove through the house which would be great.

What an ingorant blatant sales pitch. The guy aught stick to selling stoves. Many have tried this and just as many can tell you it did not work out too well. Did he tell the increased life safety risk by deploying your HVAC system? Did he expalin where you combustion air is comming from once you remove it? This has been discussed many many times.

As far as stove choices the Quad is a good stove as is the Dutchwest. I do not reconise the other manufacturer As much as I like VC the dutchwest manufacture made in Bethel Vt, I belive the Quad is a better stove The Dutchwast sure looks attractive flip a coin

 

[Charlie0742001]

Thanks for the quick replies. Due the prices seem about right? Also how are the Englander stoves sold by Home Depot and Lowes? Thanks

 

[elkimmeg]

Englanders and Centry stoves that are EPA approved do the job of heating They are as advertised cheaper steel boxes that heat I think they carya 3 to 5 year waranty. What you should be concerned with is down the road when replacement parts or warranty issues arise. Home Cheapo is not sending out a repair person to help you. I would call englander and get a feel for how they handle warranty issues and replacement parts. If satisfied you have a valid choice to make. They are just as safe as the brand names in fact Centry is made by Vermont castings. There are a few members here that are quite pleased with these stoves they hit a price with safety and heat production that many can afford.

 

[wg_bent]

In that price range there are a lot of stoves to consider. Certainly some of the Vermont Castings, a bunch of Morso's, Lopi's, Avalon, Osburn, Napoleon, Pacific Energy... and on and on...

What is it that your looking for in a stove? Primary heat? Just the 15x20 room?

As said, using the HVAC fan won't move heat like you might think. If you have that kind of system and the room, you might look into one of these:

englander central add on

If you want a room heater that looks nice for a 15x20 room...

I really think this is waaayyy cool:

(broken link removed to http://www.morsoe.com/us/2B_Classic.htm)

and I love the look of these:
(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=138)

 

[Roospike]

When looking for a new stove for yourself look for stoves with "long term" in mind and not just a few $$ difference. You may want to look into the $1600. & $2000. range . You dont have to look at a furnace all the time but a wood stove is going to be a big part of your decor and your heating.

When looking at stoves take a good look inside and how things are built and how well built they are. The ease of use on log loading , ash pans are a big + . Some have them and some dont. Some ash pans are a pain in the arse and some make life a whole lot better when cleaning out your stove.

Warranty is a big feature on wood stoves. Few have life time warrants , some have a good 5 year and others are less than worth a darn. Again , think " long term" investment.

 

[suematteva]

When looking for a new stove for yourself look for stoves with "long term" in mind and not just a few $$ difference. You may want to look into the $1600. & $2000. range . You dont have to look at a furnace all the time but a wood stove is going to be a big part of your decor and your heating.

When looking at stoves take a good look inside and how things are built and how well built they are. The ease of use on log loading , ash pans are a big + . Some have them and some dont. Some ash pans are a pain in the arse and some make life a whole lot better when cleaning out your stove.

Warranty is a big feature on wood stoves. Few have life time warrants , some have a good 5 year and others are less than worth a darn. Again , think " long term" investment.

Ditto

 

[Charlie0742001]

So what would be some good long term investment stoves under $2000?

 

[Roospike]

So what would be some good long term investment stoves under $2000?

Pacific Energy , Osburn , VC , Jotul , Morso , Country Stoves to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[Charlie0742001]

How about Napoleon?

 

[Charlie0742001]

What size shouls I get if I wanted to heat most of my house from my 15x20 3 season room without making it unbearably hot to sit in the room itself? The local stove shop told me it wasny possible to do in a level ranch and I should stick with a small stove and be happy just heating the 3 season rom with it. A different shop adivsed me of the hvac trick with a bigger unit which you all said doesnt work. With so many choices in regards to brands and prices its very confusing and a litt;e frustrating. i only wanna do thisonce. Thanks again.

 

[Roospike]

what is the square foot of your home ? basement? (finished / unfinished basement ?) How is your ranch house designed ? 8' ceilings ? Where on the house is the 3 season room? ( is the 3 season room an add on? does it have a basement? ) Where do you live / location / state ? There are a few tricks to move air around a ranch home but needing to know the lay out would help 100% .

 

[Charlie0742001]

My ranch is about 1800 square feet with the 3 season room, which is an add on. It is off the dining room. Large slider patio doors separate it from the dining room, so I have a pretty big opening when they are open. If I could maintain nice steady heat, I might even remove them. The 3 season room is at a 90 degree angle with the rest of the ranch. I am in the procces of gutting and renovating the 3 season, and have just about fully insulated it( still have to do under the floor, I think this room was originally a deck) and put up 1/2 inch sheetrock. I removed the old woodburner, a huge Huntsman model. So I already have a big hearthpad which is made of slate and is on a 7" platform, which I'd like to size down}. I'll be carpeting the room when all else is done. Once again the 3 season room is 18x20. The living room is at one end and the 3 bedrooms are at the other end. There is a baseemt with one more bedroom downstairs. I have forced hot air heating, with only one zone. I'd like to get a nice long lasting stove to heat the room and the house; is there such a beast? Thanks everyone.

 

[Charlie0742001]

P.S. I live in Westchester New Yrok. Any good dealers around here? Im iN Cortlandt Manor. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

The Napolean has gotten some good reviews and seems to represent a nice value. I wouldn't be afraid to try one based on the reports here. Pacific Energy stoves are a favorite on this site. It's rumored it will even do the dishes for you. Here is the link for your local Pacific Energy dealer in Cortland Manor:

Home and Hearth
2090 E. Main St
Cortland Manor
914-734-9773
[email protected]

http://www.pacificenergy.net/index.php

 

[Marcus]

I actually tried an experiment to see if the furnace blower could be used at all to help circulate heated stove air. I put a high output space heater right up to my main cold air return, blowing the super heated air straight into the return, which is also the closest return to the furnace. I measured the temperature of the air coming out of the registers in various rooms and there was absolutely no change with or without the heater. Conclusion: The furnace blower will not circulate warm air that is in a room by sucking it into the cold air return and blowing it out of the vents.

 

[Todd]

Ordinary house fans can do wonders if you experiment a little. Try using a box fan on the floor blowing the cooler air into the room the stove is in. That should push warm air out and cause a good circulation.

 

[tradergordo]

Did you make a decision yet?
I agree with others that it is better to circulate with regular or ceiling fans rather than HVAC. The HVAC isn't efficient because it is drawing air from all over the house instead of focusing on drawing from the hot air source point. To make matters worse, most HVAC fans are 300 watts - leaving that bad boy running all the time can be costly, and it can also create a lot of cold breezes.

I have my stove in a centrally located room with vaulted ceilings and a ceiling fan at the top. The ceiling fan can gently blow UP (not down) and circulate the air pretty effectively (air goes out and some circulates off the ceiling and back down) at just 30 watts electric. They also make "though the wall" fans that you can install between studs - which might help in your case.

The prices you mention for Dutchwest are high. I don't know about the medium, but I bought a large this year, you can order from Lehman's for $1139 + 9% shipping (avoid new york tax!) but I've seen even cheaper on eBay recently - saw a new one for $999 shipped:
cheapest new dutchwest large ever
(Located in New Jersey - might want to see if they have more.)

 

[Charlie0742001]

I know I'll get some grief from some of the guys here, but I listened to the guy in the store and went with the Pacific Energy Vista Classic, red, instead of the medium sized PE. The guys in the store swore that anything bigger than the vista would roast my 3 season room out and that the vista would still heat up my dining, living and 3 season room nicely ( rated for 1500 square feet). Its coming next week and we'll see then if I shoulda went bigger! Thanks to everyone fpr the advice especially Roospike who I tortured daily with questions. Cant wait to get the room finished and fire it up.

 

[Sandor]

I actually tried an experiment to see if the furnace blower could be used at all to help circulate heated stove air. I put a high output space heater right up to my main cold air return, blowing the super heated air straight into the return, which is also the closest return to the furnace. I measured the temperature of the air coming out of the registers in various rooms and there was absolutely no change with or without the heater. Conclusion: The furnace blower will not circulate warm air that is in a room by sucking it into the cold air return and blowing it out of the vents.

Nice test Marcus, and your conclusion is the same conclusion that most of us have. We all have tried it, and it just does not work.

Now, it REALLY brings up the question of just how inefficient central heat can be? Does the ductwork lose that much? I think so, for there can really be no other reason.

Guess thats why I heat exclusively with the woodstove, and use high efficiency window shakers for the a/c.

 

[tradergordo]

Nice test Marcus, and your conclusion is the same conclusion that most of us have. We all have tried it, and it just does not work.

Now, it REALLY brings up the question of just how inefficient central heat can be? Does the ductwork lose that much? I think so, for there can really be no other reason.

Guess thats why I heat exclusively with the woodstove, and use high efficiency window shakers for the a/c.

Was just reading a report from Omni test labs today that suggested a 30-40% loss of efficiency to duct work in central heating furnaces. This was a big surprise to me, and completely changes my calculation for how much wood I should need this year to replace the BTUs used last year from natural gas heating. I might need less wood than I had previously thought.

 

[elkimmeg]

I have posted manytimes the need to address your duct system the inposrance of duct seal on every joint including factory made adjustiable elbows ./ After that is done, equally inportant is the duct insulation, including the return side as well

Insulation without sealing you ducts is next to worthless. I might add the value to pipe insulation All ducts should be insulated to at least R 6.0 or greater Bubble wrap has been proven, not to insulate anywhere near the stated R value

 

[Sandor]

I have posted manytimes the need to address your duct system the inposrance of duct seal on every joint including factory made adjustiable elbows ./ After that is done, equally inportant is the duct insulation, including the return side as well

Insulation without sealing you ducts is next to worthless. I might add the value to pipe insulation All ducts should be insulated to at least R 6.0 or greater Bubble wrap has been proven, not to insulate anywhere near the stated R value

Don, in my last personal home I built, I sealed the ductwork six ways to Sunday. I know it was tight, and I still had the loss of heat, or a/c or lets just say BTU. Maybe I never tested long enough to account for thermal absorption of duct material. But I do know one thing, its a losing propostion any way you cut it.

 

[Sandor]

Nice test Marcus, and your conclusion is the same conclusion that most of us have. We all have tried it, and it just does not work.

Now, it REALLY brings up the question of just how inefficient central heat can be? Does the ductwork lose that much? I think so, for there can really be no other reason.

Guess thats why I heat exclusively with the woodstove, and use high efficiency window shakers for the a/c.

Was just reading a report from Omni test labs today that suggested a 30-40% loss of efficiency to duct work in central heating furnaces. This was a big surprise to me, and completely changes my calculation for how much wood I should need this year to replace the BTUs used last year from natural gas heating. I might need less wood than I had previously thought.

Nice find there Gordo. Thank you.