Newbie with "should we" question

[Firestar]

Okay, I figured this was the best place to get some suggestions. Here is the deal.

I have always loved fireplaces and wanted on in my home. Well, now I have a home that has one (as you can see from my picture) but I can't use it. Our main heat source now is a furnace that runs off propane.

The fireplace was inspected by a chimney sweep and he said the chimney was bad and I could only use it if I got a liner and an insert. I am all for that. I want to use the fireplace as a supplemental heat source to the furnace. I can get free firewood so I wouldn't have that added cost.

My question is should I shell out the money for an insert and liner or should I just suck it up and keep using (and paying for) the propane heat? My home isn't very big (maybe 1000 sqft.) If I did get the insert and liner I would (well, my husband would) be installing it ourselves.

I just hate the thought of paying X amounts of dollars over and over again for propane when I can pay X amount of dollars one time for the insert and liner and use free firewood from then on. What are everyone else's suggestions?

 

[Dix]

Girl friend, go for the insert, forget the "propain" ;-) and don't look back. You'll be very, very happy %-P

Welcome to the forums

 

[rudysmallfry]

1000 square ft house, you'd be able to heat it easily with a nice size stove. Obvious factors are, do you want to deal with the mess, time necessary to get a good fire going, scrounging and splitting of wood, etc. Also you're probably looking at an initial cash layout of about $4000 between the stove and installation. If you do decide to do it, I'd recommend soapstone. I think you might heat yourself right out the house with cast iron. Soapstone's a softer heat. It's has to get pretty hot before you have to leave the room. I love my woodstove and all that comes with it, but they are not for everyone.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Firestar. There are smaller inserts that may work out well for you. The first thing is to determine if an insert can be put in and if so, what the options are. If you can give us some information about the fireplace dimensions and flue pipe dimensions, that would be a good place to start. Pictures are also very helpful.

 

[BrotherBart]

"My question is should I shell out the money for an insert and liner or should I just suck it up and keep using (and paying for) the propane heat?"

Let me think on this a minute. Hmmm... We are a online community of wood burning junkies. Hmmm... I wonder what our answer to that question will be.

The envelope please. Ah, we have a winner. GET THE INSERT AND LINER!

 

[Hogwildz]

I hate burning firewood and all you pathetic dirty environment polluters, wheres my oil.....................................

 

[granpajohn]

I have always loved fireplaces and wanted one in my home.

The above quote is the answer to your actual question. A furnace does not qualify no matter what the cost. The horse woman is right on.

If your subliminal question is (in part) "...please help me with facts and informed opinions to convince my husband..", then that's a different story. Be advised, that most of the readers of this site are more often faced with "wife-convincing", but it's probably not that different.

Well OK, as an admitted male, I'll take a shot at it for you right now: "Buy the poor girl a fireplace insert ya cheap bum!"
Um, perhaps one of the younger, more tactful, fellows could do better.

 

[Firestar]

Ha! Ha! You guys are too funny! :lol:

I guess I should rephrase my question a bit. My hubby is pretty frugal and would rather not spend money if he doesn't have to. (Who does though, right?) He will though if it is a good idea (ie, saves money in the long run). So would it be better financially to pay the larger upfront cost for the insert and liner or just keep using propane. Propane is by no means cheap and I figure the upfront cost for the fireplace will be paid for in a few years by not having to buy much propane. We do however have one of the more efficeint funaces. I'm trying to get "all my ducks in a row" so to speak before I suggest getting the fireplace in working order to Hubby.

He grew up with a wood burner stove, I believe it was a Buck stove so he know's all about that kind of thing. I however am quite the "city girl". I'm willing to learn though, which is how I found this site.

As far as specs on the fireplace, I'm not sure about that. I know they (chimney sweep and previous owner) said it doesn't have a flue. (At least I'm pretty sure that's what they said, it was a good while ago and I am pretty much fireplace illiterate, sorry).
I will try to get some pictures though if that would help.

 

[bartlett7516]

Befor I went and bought a new insert I would get a second opinion. I mean you dont get prostate surgery if one doctor says you have a pimple on your ass. Just my 2 cents>

 

[Firestar]

Hedgefire,
That's true, I never thought about having somone else come and check it out. I guess he could have been wrong.
I just think it's a shame for a fireplace not to be used. I'm sure you all can feel my pain.

 

[begreen]

What was your monthly winter propane bill like last year? What would be your source of wood or what does it cost to buy a full cord of wood in your area?

 

[bartlett7516]

I am not saing your sweep is wrong but it is a good time to make a sale and before I spend a few grand I would pay another bill and see if what I have really needs to be replaced or not..

 

[granpajohn]

I'm trying to get "all my ducks in a row" so to speak before I suggest getting the fireplace in working order to Hubby.

Aha! I knew it.
I wanna appologize for calling your man a cheap bum. And for calling Eilleen the horse woman. (Sorry hon, I can't memorize everything.)
And, I'm already sorry I got involved in this thread, but since I am, a couple items to remember:

- Assuming you own the house and consider it a worthwhile investment; the cost of propane is not the only money item to consider. You will someday be selling a house with a wonderful woodburner, or else a non-working fireplace. (Not a good sale pitch, eh?)
- Husband grew up woodburning. Might I suggest you explain how helpful you will be with the wood stacking, loading, etc. It's possible he's tired of the work involved. BTW, I'm serious about that. it gives much more satisfaction sitting before a fire that one had a hand in feeding.
- There are plenty of "payback time" threads to read. Most of those who have free wood have a very respectable payback period of only a few years. (All depends on propane price, etc.)
- On the $4000 number.....Assuming the small size of your house leads to a smaller insert/stove, you might be closer to $3000. I say this not knowing the length of chimney liner.

 

[billb3]

Unless your current chimney is collapsing he probably said 'un-lined flue' and 'shouldn't be used' rather than 'can't be used'.

Or: "Can't be used with stoves sold today".

You've got more than a insert/stove and liner to think about.
If he's frugal with his time and effort, and he remembers how much effort and work a wood stove can be, you've got that incentive to work on, too.
That work can also be fun (sort of). He may be remembering all that work being a horrible chore. Who knows.

My parents burned wood long after they didn't have to worry about what they could and couldn't afford and only srtopped when mmom's allergies couldn't take it any more. The fireplace and insert are gone from thier house, but there is still a small tested wood stove hooked up in the basement. Usable in a Winter electricity outage.

 

[woodjack]

EDIT: There are two types of people in this world. Wood burners and non-wood burners.
I think it has to be a labor of love, or it's probably not worth the savings.

 

[savageactor7]

As long as you can get free firewood yeah...get a good EPA wood insert. You won't regret that move if you like heat.

 

[speyguy]

I would start by doing the math. Sit down and figure out how much the propane will cost you per year. Then shop for and figure out which stove you would like and how much it would cost to have the new stove installed with the new liner or if you plan on doing part or all of the install yourself how much the total bill will be. Next, figure out how long you expect to live in the house. You should get your answer on whether it makes economic sense and how long it would take to recoup the cost. My wife is as tight and frugal as they come. Our original furnace runs on oil. When she turned up the heat she would move the thermostat to 62. This is how I sold it to her. We’re coming into our 3rd season with the stove and she loves the thing and agrees it was a great investment, especially with the recent hikes in fossil fuel prices.

 

[trapshooter9]

If your hubby installs it himself you can do it for considerably less than $3-4k. My house is about the size of yours and I recently installed a little stove (not an insert) on the brick hearth in front of the fireplace. Here is what it cost me:
Hearthstone Craftsbury (used, one year old) $800
Liner kit (ebay, including shipping) $310
Mineral wool insulation $20
Ash bucket, misc. hardware, etc $100

TOTAL $1230

 

[Dix]

I wanna appologize for calling your man a cheap bum. And for calling Eilleen the horse woman. (Sorry hon, I can’t memorize everything.)

Oh, it's fine ...... trust me, I've been called alot worse ;-P


And anyone who wants to get their "ducks in a row", is gonna be fun


I was at work when I replied earlier, so not alot of time for posting.


I think that if you don't mind the work, and the wood is free, you'll be good to go. Fireplace measurements, house layout, etc, will all help you come to a quicker decision.

Welcome !!

 

[Brian VT]

There's really no free wood. It requires a lot of work unless the Wood Fairy comes while you're sleeping and leaves you 5 stacked, dry cord.
That, and feeding, cleaning, worrying, it's like having another kid to take care of but more physically demanding.
Also, the heat will not be even throughout your home. These are the reasons central heating systems were invented.
If you can afford to pay for the "set it and forget it" convenience of a conventional heating system, and your time and sweat is more valuable than the cost difference when compared to burning wood, you should stick with just the propane.
That said, there's nothing like the heat from burning wood. It warms to the bone.
I just installed a wood stove and have been burning for @ 2 weeks. I've got @ $2000 into it plus $600 for 3 cord dumped.
I'm loving it. I like burning wood. Maybe the joy will wear off come February when I'm shlepping wood in when it's -5 out.
I dunno. But it's another source of heat. I also have oil-fired hwbb and a fantastic propane-fired fireplace.
I now take solice in the fact that I can now have heat even if something happens to the oil or propane supply or my ability to buy it.
Good luck with your decision. There is a wealth of info. and people willing to help you here.

 

[karl]

Hey Firestar,

What part of North Central West Virginia, Faimont, Clarksburg, Morgantown? I'm in Huntington.

As for should you get an insert. Well you would need to go to propane.com or something like that to get a no answer.

A thousand square feet is pretty small. If the house is well insulated, I would think you could heat it on 3 cords of wood. That's really not alot of wood. I burnt 6 cords last year in a 2600 square foot house. I'm not as cold as you up north, especially if you're in the hills, but my insulation isn't the best either. I think you could scrounge three cords a year if you have a truck. If not check with a lumber mill and see about their scraps. And don't tell the people on here how cheap wood is in West Virginia. I don't think the guys up north know it grows on trees.

I'm pretty handy and I know some people aren't but installing an insert isn't very difficult. I put a Pacific Energy Summit insert in last year. I have about $2500.00 in my whole deal; insert, liner; and miscellaneous stuff. The insert alone was $2045.00. Check with Lowe's and Home depot. You might be able to put an Englander stove in the fire place. They sell them for $600-$800 dollars. Throw in $350-$400 hundred for a liner. Another $75 for Miscellaneous stuff. You're at $1025-$1275. That's doing it on the cheap. I think most people in here would say add another $1000.00 and you would still be doing it cheaply. The extra grand would now put you in the $1600-$1800 range for the insert. That will buy alot different inserts if you shop around, especially off season. I bought mine in July.

At $2500, my pay back is less than two seasons. Maybe a full two seasons tops. You can't do anything to your house that gives you that type of payback. Add up your propane bills, subtract a little out for hot water if you use propane to heat with and start pricing inserts.

Burning wood is work, but having a 75 degree house in the winter more than makes up for it. Think, no more electric blankets, no more slippers, no more sweat shirts, and as a guy for me the real kicker was seeing the wife run out of the bathroom naked to get dressed in front of the stove.

Do some research and make your decision.

 

[Firestar]

What was your monthly winter propane bill like last year? What would be your source of wood or what does it cost to buy a full cord of wood in your area?

Our house has a small 1 BR apartment connected by a breezeway that also uses propane for heat. It doesn't take that much to heat it though. It has a heater that looks like a wood stove but runs off the propane. Anyways, we just got a tankfull (about 400 gallons) and that might last us all winter, if we keep it kind of cool. That cost us about $1500. The furnace is the only thing that runs off the propane all the appliances and things are electric.

As far as what kind of wood, I'm not sure. My dad has about 15 acres at his business that he is clearing and he said we could have however much wood we wanted. I don't really know what kind of wood it is. He would know, but I didn't ask. I'll have to ask the In-laws how much they pay for wood. I think they use about a dump truck full each year (maybe more, and I'm not sure if that is what a "cord" is or not. I told you I'm such a city girl :red: ).

 

[Firestar]

Hey Firestar,

"What part of North Central West Virginia, Faimont, Clarksburg, Morgantown? I'm in Huntington."

Outskirts of Motown, closer to Fairmont. I wouldn't say we were too far in the hills but we do have snow a lot after other people's has melted. I'm going to check out Lowe's and Home Depot to see what they have. Hubby said before about getting a gas (LP) but I want to get away from it. I'd really like to have something that can be used for back up too if the power goes out and we need heat. That has happend before the the previous owners (not to us, we've only been there 2 years).

I figure if I can keep it around $2k-$3k Hubby might go for it. I have read some stuff about doing it ourselves and I think we are handy enough to do it. Heck, we just gutted the bathroom and remodeled it almost by ourselves (had help from my dad :cheese: )

 

[karl]

I'll give you the West Virginia conversions for wood. A dump truck is usually two cords. That's a good size dump truck, like small 10 wheeler or a big 8 wheeler. A pickup load from a full size pick up is about a half a cord, a little more if its over loaded. A Ranger size pick up load is a waste of money, probably a quarter of a cord.

If you paid 1500 hundred on propane last year then you're looking at a two year pay back to get a nice insert or stove in there.

If you remodeled a bathroom you can do an insert. They take more brawn than brains.

 

[CowboyAndy]

Firestar, here's my .02 cents.

Run, don't walk, to wherever you need to get your supplies from. You will be sooooooo happy to be able to have the house at whatever temp you want it. Im not sure about your house, but ours with the oil furnace would start at 70, then drop to 68 before coming on, then up to 72, down to 68, etc. We NEVER have that problem now. We plopped down a huge chunk of cash for a brand new wood/oil combo furnace for our house. Had to get a liner too... total was in the $6000 range. Believe me when I say that is ALOT of money for us (more than each of our cars!!). I do not regret a single day of it. Now, even at that price it will pay for itself in less than 2 seasons, as last year we spent $3800 on oil (2300 sq ft house built in 1893, some new insulation).

JUST DO IT!