Newbie with "should we" question

[buzcranne]

For what it's worth, I put a woodstove in an existing fireplace this year. I'd suggest checking out woodstoves in addition to inserts (less money upfront, more heat for the buck due to better circulation, better operation when there's a power outage; others might argue with me on these points).

Englander is a great brand if you're looking to be frugal but want quality. I think most would agree on that.

I did the whole project including a larger stove than you will probably need, quality flue liner, new slate tile in front of the fireplace and a few startup accoutrements for less than $2000. The install is easy easy easy for anyone with moderate level of handiness (not counting any complex oddball install situations).

For us, it was an absolute no-brainer. And I'm cheap too.

 

[Firestar]

I'll give you the West Virginia conversions for wood. A dump truck is usually two cords. That's a good size dump truck, like small 10 wheeler or a big 8 wheeler. A pickup load from a full size pick up is about a half a cord, a little more if its over loaded. A Ranger size pick up load is a waste of money, probably a quarter of a cord.

I found out how much they paid for it, and I won't say but man, waaayyy cheaper than I thought. Makes me wonder why anyone in WV would heat with anything else.

Anyhoo, the dump truck is more like a ton sized truck. Not a pick up, a little bigger but not a full coal truck / dump truck size. Know what I mean?

Judging from your discriptions I would say they use probably a cord or two. Their house is about the same size as ours so I think we would probably use the same amount.

 

[Firestar]

For what it's worth, I put a woodstove in an existing fireplace this year. I'd suggest checking out woodstoves in addition to inserts (less money upfront, more heat for the buck due to better circulation, better operation when there's a power outage; others might argue with me on these points).

Englander is a great brand if you're looking to be frugal but want quality. I think most would agree on that.

I did the whole project including a larger stove than you will probably need, quality flue liner, new slate tile in front of the fireplace and a few startup accoutrements for less than $2000. The install is easy easy easy for anyone with moderate level of handiness (not counting any complex oddball install situations).

For us, it was an absolute no-brainer. And I'm cheap too.

I thought about a stove too but the living room isn't very wide and I didn't want something to be sticking out of the fireplace too far.
I will check out that brand though and see what they have.

 

[Firestar]

I really appreciate everyone's input and help. I talked to Hubby about it this weekend and he said it would be a good idea to fix it.

I asked him what exactly the chimney sweep said was wrong with it and he said "there were bricks missing" and it needs lined. I'm going to have someone else come and look at it to make sure it will be safe if we line it. I'm gonna try to take a picture of the inside too and post that.

I really hope it isn't too far gone that I can't use it. I can't imagine that it is because you would think the home inspector would have said something when we bought the house.

I will keep everyone posted though. Thanks again

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I'll give you the West Virginia conversions for wood. A dump truck is usually two cords. That's a good size dump truck, like small 10 wheeler or a big 8 wheeler. A pickup load from a full size pick up is about a half a cord, a little more if its over loaded. A Ranger size pick up load is a waste of money, probably a quarter of a cord.

I found out how much they paid for it, and I won't say but man, waaayyy cheaper than I thought. Makes me wonder why anyone in WV would heat with anything else.

Anyhoo, the dump truck is more like a ton sized truck. Not a pick up, a little bigger but not a full coal truck / dump truck size. Know what I mean?

Judging from your discriptions I would say they use probably a cord or two. Their house is about the same size as ours so I think we would probably use the same amount.

Vic99 and I worked our non-existent butts off cutting, loading, hauling about 5 cord of wood between us with a rented Ford F550 dump body truck. Could be the size you're talking about. The bed was 7'x9' and 18" deep, so heaped just a bit it was one cord. The dump deal was key. If I threw on some retaining side, it could have hauled a lot more.

 

[Firestar]

I'll give you the West Virginia conversions for wood. A dump truck is usually two cords. That's a good size dump truck, like small 10 wheeler or a big 8 wheeler. A pickup load from a full size pick up is about a half a cord, a little more if its over loaded. A Ranger size pick up load is a waste of money, probably a quarter of a cord.

I found out how much they paid for it, and I won't say but man, waaayyy cheaper than I thought. Makes me wonder why anyone in WV would heat with anything else.

Anyhoo, the dump truck is more like a ton sized truck. Not a pick up, a little bigger but not a full coal truck / dump truck size. Know what I mean?

Judging from your discriptions I would say they use probably a cord or two. Their house is about the same size as ours so I think we would probably use the same amount.

Vic99 and I worked our non-existent butts off cutting, loading, hauling about 5 cord of wood between us with a rented Ford F550 dump body truck. Could be the size you're talking about. The bed was 7'x9' and 18" deep, so heaped just a bit it was one cord. The dump deal was key. If I threw on some retaining side, it could have hauled a lot more.

Yep, like that. So I guess they use about a cord or two then.

 

[karl]

I told you not tell the guys in here that wood grows on trees.

The pics I attached show the dump truck load I got. It stacked to two cords and I paid $110.00 for it. I'll burn two loads of them this year and keep the house 70 plus degrees. I really doubt they only burn a cord. That's not alot of wood. I assume you're buying this stove and wood for next year. Atleast the wood, because lumber mill stuff won't be dry to burn this year. Anyway, lay in three of four cords for next year if you have the space. It won't go bad in a year and you will use more than you think.

When I tell people what I paid, they ask if it's hard wood; and I say who cares. You have to be crazy not to burn wood in this state.

 

[Firestar]

I told you not tell the guys in here that wood grows on trees.

The pics I attached show the dump truck load I got. It stacked to two cords and I paid $110.00 for it. I'll burn two loads of them this year and keep the house 70 plus degrees. I really doubt they only burn a cord. That's not alot of wood. I assume you're buying this stove and wood for next year. Atleast the wood, because lumber mill stuff won't be dry to burn this year. Anyway, lay in three of four cords for next year if you have the space. It won't go bad in a year and you will use more than you think.

When I tell people what I paid, they ask if it's hard wood; and I say who cares. You have to be crazy not to burn wood in this state.

It wouldn't be for this year that's for sure. I'm not sure if it would be next year or not. It depends on how motivated Hubby is to get started on it. He missed a lot of bass fishing this year fixing up the bathroom and I think he is planning on making up for it next summer. If the wood is cut and stacked how long until it goes "bad"? I'm just wondering if we start scrounging for wood at Dad's and start splitting and stacking if we wouldn't be able to use it if it's 2 years from now.

The dump truck full they get is a little smaller than that. Maybe they go through about 2-4 cords then. Even still, it's cheaper than paying for propane! I would want to stock up as much as possible. We have the room, it's a small sized yard for WV, about 2.5 acres. Big for the city folk.

 

[karl]

The wood will last two years easily if it's stack off the ground. Infact, oak takes about that long to dry out. If you get slab wood from a lumber mill, it will dry out in six months or less. Other stuff takes about a year to be really dry. I have split Silver Maple in May and burnt it in November. If you keep wood dry it will last forever, Outside, on pallets with a tarp over it. I would say 4 or 5 years until it starts going bad. Maybe longer. Laying on the ground in logs, two years and it still won't be dry

 

[kbrown]

We too are newbies to this but faced similar situation - have been burning a standard fireplace for many years, then installed a cozy-grate to try to gain some heat from it. Annual chimney cleanings and this year he found a damaged piece of flue. Here's where it made the decision for us and my opinion to you: assume that your chimney sweep is correct and you need repairs. You stated that you would still use it as a standard fireplace so you would have to sink the bucks into the repairs to bring it to code for your area. Money spent for the repair will be just like the heat - right out the chimney! Given the fact you have a source of wood and to my knowledge there are no more dinosaurs around, so the fossil fuels will too be extinct! Have you used any of the cost calculators to determine the cost of heating with wood and projected ROI period? We have natural gas which is cheaper than propane and even we found wood the way to go. What we also found was with the increase in demand of wood stoves/inserts we will not be getting our unit (Napoleon 1402) until December. Lastly, at least for me it gives me a great feeling knowing that we can still keep the family warm when the power goes out or there is a disruption in gas supply.
Go for the insert!

 

[gyrfalcon]

Two other things to consider. First is that propane, natural gas, oil are only going to get more expensive, and very rapidly. Personally, I'm ecstatic to be rid of that burden and "off the grid" and almost self-sufficient as far as heat goes. (I'm in Vermont, so a far bigger $$ issue than for you, but still...)

Secondly, you can't have a functioning furnace/boiler operating on the same flue as a wood-burner, so if your propane system vents out that chimney, you've got a problem if you want to keep the boiler as a back-up or supplement. We get too much snow here in Vermont to be safe venting a boiler/furnace out the foundation (too much risk of blocking the vent and having dangerous CO build-up), so I had to have a second chimney put in for my woodstove. Now I'm kicking myself since I'm using only the woodstove and turned the boiler off altogether, but if I need its help in the sub-zero depths of winter, I still have the option of turning it on again because it's on a separate chimney.

Do seriously consider the free-standing stove option before you decide. A fireplace insert looks very handsome, but after living with it for a while, I wouldn't trade my stove for a fireplace if I had one. They're gorgeous, radiate heat from four sides, and the pipe itself adds additional heat. Plus I have no reduction in heating capacity if the power goes out and can even cook on it if necessary. Again, more of an issue this far north, but I can't tell you how safe the whole set-up makes me feel.

Schlepping the wood around sometimes does feel like a burden, but it's one I'm overall very glad to have. There's a personal satisfaction from heating your home with the considerable physical effort you put into it yourself that nudging a thermostat and walking away just can't begin to compare to.

 

[sandyO]

We did an addition on our house with no real way to pipe in the heat from the existing house, so wood seemed like a viable option for us. We are SO glad we did it. It seems daunting at first, but well worth the effort and savings. I would definitely get another estimate though, as when we were looking it seemed that the salesmen were really trying to rake us over the coals, so to speak. We ended up doing it ourselves so altogether we maybe spent $1300. (thankfully it was a pretty straightforward installation---one story straight up and out the roof) . I don't know anything about existing firelplaces and inserts, but I do know that every time I see that fire glowing and the wind is blowing outside I thank my lucky stars that the propane furnace sits idle and the $400+ I had to spend for 200 gallons of propane at the end of March is still half there in the tank.

 

[Firestar]

The wood will last two years easily if it's stack off the ground. Infact, oak takes about that long to dry out. If you get slab wood from a lumber mill, it will dry out in six months or less. Other stuff takes about a year to be really dry. I have split Silver Maple in May and burnt it in November. If you keep wood dry it will last forever, Outside, on pallets with a tarp over it. I would say 4 or 5 years until it starts going bad. Maybe longer. Laying on the ground in logs, two years and it still won't be dry

Great. I always wondered about that. Now if I knew for sure that we are going to be able to use the fireplace once we line it and put the insert in, I would start stocking up on wood.

How long did it take you to install your insert and liner?

 

[Firestar]

We too are newbies to this but faced similar situation - have been burning a standard fireplace for many years, then installed a cozy-grate to try to gain some heat from it. Annual chimney cleanings and this year he found a damaged piece of flue. Here's where it made the decision for us and my opinion to you: assume that your chimney sweep is correct and you need repairs. You stated that you would still use it as a standard fireplace so you would have to sink the bucks into the repairs to bring it to code for your area. Money spent for the repair will be just like the heat - right out the chimney! Given the fact you have a source of wood and to my knowledge there are no more dinosaurs around, so the fossil fuels will too be extinct! Have you used any of the cost calculators to determine the cost of heating with wood and projected ROI period? We have natural gas which is cheaper than propane and even we found wood the way to go. What we also found was with the increase in demand of wood stoves/inserts we will not be getting our unit (Napoleon 1402) until December. Lastly, at least for me it gives me a great feeling knowing that we can still keep the family warm when the power goes out or there is a disruption in gas supply.
Go for the insert!

I'm hoping that the chimney won't need a complete overhaul. I'm hoping that we can just leave it as is and put a liner down it. I would definitely get an insert and not use it as an open fireplace. At the earliest we would get something in the summer. It's not really a pressing issue that needs to be done in the next few months but I would like to get it done as soon as possible.

 

[Firestar]

Two other things to consider. First is that propane, natural gas, oil are only going to get more expensive, and very rapidly. Personally, I'm ecstatic to be rid of that burden and "off the grid" and almost self-sufficient as far as heat goes. (I'm in Vermont, so a far bigger $$ issue than for you, but still...)

Secondly, you can't have a functioning furnace/boiler operating on the same flue as a wood-burner, so if your propane system vents out that chimney, you've got a problem if you want to keep the boiler as a back-up or supplement. We get too much snow here in Vermont to be safe venting a boiler/furnace out the foundation (too much risk of blocking the vent and having dangerous CO build-up), so I had to have a second chimney put in for my woodstove. Now I'm kicking myself since I'm using only the woodstove and turned the boiler off altogether, but if I need its help in the sub-zero depths of winter, I still have the option of turning it on again because it's on a separate chimney.

Do seriously consider the free-standing stove option before you decide. A fireplace insert looks very handsome, but after living with it for a while, I wouldn't trade my stove for a fireplace if I had one. They're gorgeous, radiate heat from four sides, and the pipe itself adds additional heat. Plus I have no reduction in heating capacity if the power goes out and can even cook on it if necessary. Again, more of an issue this far north, but I can't tell you how safe the whole set-up makes me feel.

Schlepping the wood around sometimes does feel like a burden, but it's one I'm overall very glad to have. There's a personal satisfaction from heating your home with the considerable physical effort you put into it yourself that nudging a thermostat and walking away just can't begin to compare to.

I would love too get to where I was self sufficient for heat. I'll have to check to see where the furnace vents to. I hope not in the chimney. When I look in the fireplace there aren't any pipes going up it though. Would I be able to see them?
I like the looks of free-standing stoves but I don't know that I have the room. The living room is only about 7 or 8 feet wide from the fireplace to the opposite wall. I don't want DS to go running through and run into the stove. Being able to cook on it is a great plus. I'm all about the "what if's" and "if we have too"'s. Does the insert not work if the power goes out?

 

[gyrfalcon]

I would love too get to where I was self sufficient for heat. I'll have to check to see where the furnace vents to. I hope not in the chimney. When I look in the fireplace there aren't any pipes going up it though. Would I be able to see them?
I like the looks of free-standing stoves but I don't know that I have the room. The living room is only about 7 or 8 feet wide from the fireplace to the opposite wall. I don't want DS to go running through and run into the stove. Being able to cook on it is a great plus. I'm all about the "what if's" and "if we have too"'s. Does the insert not work if the power goes out?

Go look at your boiler to see where it's vented. If it goes into the chimney, it'll have a pipe that goes to the base of the chimney and exits there, not a pipe up through the chimney. If it's directly vented to the outside, you should have a vent opening somewhere on that side of the house.

Who or what is DS? Is that a child? I honestly don't think you'd have any problems with people crashing into a stove. You get used to detouring around it very quickly if it ends up being in the occupants' "flight path," so to speak.

The problem with inserts, as I understand it, is that because they only radiate heat from one surface, unlike a stove's 4, they need an attached blower to push the heated air out into the room. No power, no blower, so a reduced heat zone from the insert. Living where I do out in the middle of nowhere, the thing I'm most anxious about is heat during an extended winter power outage from a major snow or ice storm, so that whole issue looms very large for me, probably much less so as far south as you are.

All fairly minor points (except the boiler vent/chimney issue), but worth figuring into the equation.

 

[Firestar]

I would love too get to where I was self sufficient for heat. I'll have to check to see where the furnace vents to. I hope not in the chimney. When I look in the fireplace there aren't any pipes going up it though. Would I be able to see them?
I like the looks of free-standing stoves but I don't know that I have the room. The living room is only about 7 or 8 feet wide from the fireplace to the opposite wall. I don't want DS to go running through and run into the stove. Being able to cook on it is a great plus. I'm all about the "what if's" and "if we have too"'s. Does the insert not work if the power goes out?

Go look at your boiler to see where it's vented. If it goes into the chimney, it'll have a pipe that goes to the base of the chimney and exits there, not a pipe up through the chimney. If it's directly vented to the outside, you should have a vent opening somewhere on that side of the house.

Who or what is DS? Is that a child? I honestly don't think you'd have any problems with people crashing into a stove. You get used to detouring around it very quickly if it ends up being in the occupants' "flight path," so to speak.

The problem with inserts, as I understand it, is that because they only radiate heat from one surface, unlike a stove's 4, they need an attached blower to push the heated air out into the room. No power, no blower, so a reduced heat zone from the insert. Living where I do out in the middle of nowhere, the thing I'm most anxious about is heat during an extended winter power outage from a major snow or ice storm, so that whole issue looms very large for me, probably much less so as far south as you are.

All fairly minor points (except the boiler vent/chimney issue), but worth figuring into the equation.

I'll have to look when I get home. I know the Furnace is right next to the bottom of the chimney in the basement. I'm hoping it's vented somewhere else. How hard is it to change where it's vented to? A friend of ours is a heating/cooling guy so maybe if it needs to be changed he can move it.

DS is darling son. He likes to cut corners short when he's running around. It makes me nervous. I usually tell him to slow down but it doesn't help when Dad is egging him on. :blank:

I'll have to measure the room and see if it's wide enough for a stove. Doesn't there have to be a certain clearance amount in front of the stove? I think we have that if it's just the fireplace but I don't know that we would if we had a stove.

 

[billb3]

You most likely have a chimney with multiple flues.
Probably two flues, maybe three.
(unless your house is older and a seperate chimney was added for a coal or fuel stove around a century ago)
Many have clay liners, but my last house had a double that was not. Just brick. A couple of the top bricks would come loose every now and then. I'd mortar them back on when the weather got better.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I'll have to look when I get home. I know the Furnace is right next to the bottom of the chimney in the basement. I'm hoping it's vented somewhere else. How hard is it to change where it's vented to? A friend of ours is a heating/cooling guy so maybe if it needs to be changed he can move it.

DS is darling son. He likes to cut corners short when he's running around. It makes me nervous. I usually tell him to slow down but it doesn't help when Dad is egging him on. :blank:

I'll have to measure the room and see if it's wide enough for a stove. Doesn't there have to be a certain clearance amount in front of the stove? I think we have that if it's just the fireplace but I don't know that we would if we had a stove.

I don't think it's hard to do, but you'd definitely need to have a heating/plumbing guy look at it. Whether it makes sense to do it depends on how high your foundation is, how much snow you get there and how high off the ground the vent can be made from the cellar. Last thing you ever want to do is be running the boiler with the vent blocked by a snowdrift.

You do need clearance in front of the stove for a hearth, how much varies by stove model, but the hearth can be set in level with the floor.

 

[Firestar]

You most likely have a chimney with multiple flues.
Probably two flues, maybe three.
(unless your house is older and a seperate chimney was added for a coal or fuel stove around a century ago)
Many have clay liners, but my last house had a double that was not. Just brick. A couple of the top bricks would come loose every now and then. I'd mortar them back on when the weather got better.

Our house is older, probably built in the late 40's early 50's. I know it did have coal heat because there is a storage area in the basement that's like in the wall with a little door. We only have one chimney in the house so maybe you are right about the multiple flues. I honestly have never really looked inside my chimney to see what it looks like.

The fireplace is in the middle of the house. It starts in the basement with the ash area, goes up to the main floor (living room) and then on up through the attic (which is now finished) and out the roof. It's pretty much a one story house.

There were some bricks at the top of our that were loose and last summer my hubby and brother-in-law (who's a concrete man) fixed them and reset them.